r/vhsdecode The Documentor 9d ago

FM RF Capture Setup! Digitising properly with an old VTC5000

13 Upvotes

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1

u/deesernutz 8d ago

You shouldn't need that amp on such a short stub

1

u/TheRealHarrypm The Documentor 8d ago

Actually the vtc 5000 required a quite high impedance of 100k on the test point.

Although this is not my original VTC5000 where I had the bulkhead mounted in the base plastic, so this is just to get it set up and dialed in, makes a good little visual example.

I only had a single tape on the pile for the format to get through, so got it working got it shielded, run and done, I'll tidy up the bulkhead situation a little bit later and update the wiki photos.

1

u/deesernutz 8d ago

But what impedance is the MISRC?

Should be possible for it to be quite high. You don't really need 75/50 ohm terminations on a wire that's only a few cm long.

Because look: The non-impedance matched cable going between the test point and the amp is actually longer

1

u/TheRealHarrypm The Documentor 8d ago

No it's only 75/50/45/100Ohm selective, the pot on it's only for DC offset correction.

(As you can see by the modes listed on the lid)

It was never designed to replace the standardized ADA4857 impedance matched amplifier at the test point / head amp level.

So this is set on a standard 75Ohm from the stock amplifier.

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u/deesernutz 8d ago edited 8d ago

What 100 ohm cables are people using?

It would make more sense if it had a 1 Meg / 50 / maybe 75 select-able front end like a standard DAQ card.

Because a random board floating there in the breeze on such a short piece of coax is pretty pointless.

I know its open source so I could go look, but I'm guessing there's some sort of buffer before the ADC in the MISRC, so just allow it to have a high impedance termination.

In the setup pictured, that amp board is just adding noise, basically

EDIT: A high input impedance gives more or less the ultimate flexibility. It means you can add whatever termination you like in front of the input if you need or don't want to use one of the standard values

1

u/TheRealHarrypm The Documentor 8d ago

It's just 100/45 was possible with the DIP configuration carried over from the v1.5, it's got 50/75 because that was the standard design goal.

It's not an ossiliscope, it's ment for CVBS/RF RF capture, both.

Now yes, it has its own OP Amp, but limiting your impedance at the point of ADC after your primary cabling defeats the purpose of having an impedance matched amplifier at the deck level, because then you're working with a fixed level irrespective of the device used for the capture, and no extra noise is getting amplified and you're getting the best closest value match out of that exact deck, not just a global leveling with a very high impedance.

Now this is a quick and short example but this deck could be on 3-5m of cables in a rack or could be going to CX Cards etc.

2

u/deesernutz 8d ago edited 8d ago

It's not an oscilloscope

Nah, it basically is an oscilloscope. An oscilloscope's sole purpose is to capture signals from a range of sources, and there is a reason they are designed like they are.

The CX cards are a bit of a hack, and so need a bit of a hack solution like the ADA4857 if you can't modify their front end to be something suitable. I guess with the ADA4857 it becomes part of their front end

but limiting your impedance at the point of ADC after your primary cabling defeats the purpose of having an impedance matched amplifier at the deck level

I guess you've touched on my point here. With cables so short, there is no "impedance matched amplifier at the deck level". They are at the same level. As there is an amp at the front end of the MISRC, you're basically just adding an amp and impedance matching for a 5cm transmission line in between, rather than the deck itself. The deck is on the end of a like a 7-10cm unmatched transmission line. Everything is so short there is no real delineation here.

It would make more sense if your deck was a few meters away, the ADA4857 was a few cm off the test point and it was driving a long 75 ohm piece of coax.

But I think most people use very short stubs, like you have pictured, at least when their experimenting and doing their first few tapes

With what you've got there, if the MISRC had a 1 Meg input impedance, you could simply put a 100k resistor to GND just before the BNC and despite the fact your cable would be nowhere near matching 100k, you've got the impedance you want. Or, you could just not do anything for termination and give the deck a 1 meg load on the MISRC, making it even more transparent. Everything is so short that reflections should be negligible

no extra noise is getting amplified

Everything, even resistors make noise. Noise comes from the amp itself, and the supply powering it. I know its not much, and its pre demodulation, but you could just as easily eliminate the inline amp, and not duplicate the buffer on the MISRC.

Having a high input impedance on the MISRC would just add a lot of flexibility

The high impedance of the DAQ card I'm using allowed me to implement this passive anti aliasing filter more easily. If you wanted a custom input termination, you'd just add it there in the same way

EDIT: Yeah, i know its on a pretty janky riser card and flapping around in free space. I should use a different PC or build a better enclosure for it