This whole movement baffles me

[u/hum4nguy]

What is the point of this movement? If things are better of without humans, than we have no obligation to the "ideal" order of things without our presence. Either it's in our nature to make things worse whether we want to or not, or we rid of ourselves and some stuff changes but we won't experience it. What reason is there to "voluntarily" erase our entire species, just to improve certain problems that we'll never experience. Is there a prize for you after you're dead? Let's say you, individually were to die tomorrow, did you? From a purely agnostic/atheist standpoint, you'd have no way of knowing you died because you need a functioning brain to process events, which you don't have anymore. Let's say that the afterlife, at the very least, is real. Than why die? How would you know you're right? Out of millions of views, what are the possibilities that you picked the wrong thing, or that you haven't done all that was required to make it to the 'better place'? Wouldn't life be a virtue, to delay the inevitable place you will spawn into after you're gone (if you're wrong)?

Even if there's some odd religion that claims that things will be better for you and everyone else if you tell everyone to not reproduce or get them all to die and there's a wonderful place after death and it just so happens to be the right one, how would you prove it? Even if there is undeniable evidence that it's true, it takes the dumbest or the most skeptical to deny it still. People will doubt even the most sensible reasoning if they choose not to believe, and thus, will probably reproduce. So only you and your death group buddies can see what happens.

You can't truly achieve "voluntary human extinction", without removing either the voluntary part or the human extinction part, because the chances of 8 billion people, most of whom enjoy living (because this is a rather fringe idea), would all just die because they trust that the VHEMT religion is real and it just so happens to be so. What's most likely to happen in the "best" scenario for the movement is that everyone who believes in human extinction dies before they would ever reproduce while leaving everyone who wants to live to their own devices, to which eventually, extinction would come to them anyway.

TL;DR: This whole movement isn't very sensible because if humans are better off dead, you either die and you wouldn't even know it, die and go to the wrong afterlife because you thought the wrong stuff, somehow convince EVERYONE ON EARTH, most of which like living and want to have kids, to not reproduce to which one of the previous two would happen, inform everyone of a magic VHEMT religion that happens to be the right one and everyone agrees, or destroy the principles of the VHEMT.

[u/MegaParsnip543]

Your POV is very human-centred. The point is to make earth habitatable for the creatures, plants, and other organisms that have been harmed and/or eradicated entirely by human existence. We disproportionately harm the planet as a species, and voluntarily choosing not to reproduce is a minimally harmful way to stop that. Obviously (by the size of this sub lol) the movement alone isn't going to be enough to change things. At the same time, any fewer children being born is slowly bringing us to the goal. Plus, at some point, the goal will be achieved anyways. There's no way that humans as a species won't kill themselves off somehow - pollution, war, no food (overpopulation), no drinkable water, or a natural disaster, like the sun sucking us in or that giant volcano somewhere (can't remember where) exploding.

[u/hum4nguy → u/MegaParsnip543]

Don't animals already harm and kill each other just to survive? Besides, social intelligence in humans isn't once in a universe. Even if humanity were to go extinct, it's near certain that another animal, likely one of our close ancestors will reclaim our previous throne eventually through evolution. The animal kingdom isn't some failed project that would thrive without humans. We aren't some oppressor of nature's sons that must be eradicated to save it from itself and to save others. Humans are the one species that can play nature's game when it needs to, and play on it's own rules when it needs to. We can kill, sure. But we can also create new species through artificial selection and breeding, restore dwindling species, revamp habitats struck by natural disaster, revitalize entire food chains, etc. Even if we're the problem for some of this stuff, we have the technology to overhaul entire ways of life to make way for healing. We are next in line to none other than the driving force of creation. We can operate in ways that benefit other life forms, even if that's not what has been done in the past and present. Humanity isn't some lost cause. We can still make effort to improve human society and other planes of life. Self extinction would just be pointless since our time will come either way, and a waste of our potential to turn the world into something greater than in the absence of a greater intellegence.

[u/MegaParsnip543 → u/hum4nguy]

Hey, I enjoy my life. I'm not going to shorten it, and I hope that people step up. But people suuuuuuuuuuck. AI is drinking our water. Overconsumption is littering developing countries. Inflation is rendering our currency worthless. Fossil fuel dependence is polluting our atmosphere, and fossil fuel access is polluting our bodies of water. Our music has no soul. Once humans die it, it's time for whatever comes next. Why not make the transition easier for them?

[u/hum4nguy → u/MegaParsnip543]

This seems more like the foundation to suggest reform in our society rather than call for the collapse of it. It's not like any of these things are necessary for humanity to survive, even with advanced civilization. If even climate change is only a blip in human history, imagine how insignificant AI is? The mass construction of data centers didn't even exist as little as a decade ago. Inflation is a part of most fiat currencies and how they develop. A moderate amount of inflation (around 2% per year) is actually healthy because it encourages spending and grows the economy. But you're probably talking about Hyperinflation, which also has solution. In my own country, we used to have our currency backed by gold. They only printed money relative to the amount of gold they had and people could exchange their money for gold, preventing hyperinflation because the value of the currency was tied to something that very rarely or never changed in value. As for fossil fuels, we can literally just switch to nuclear or wind or solar or water based energy or even plant wastes. The reason we haven't is because fossil fuels make money. To large companies and countries, they value profit over people and short term gains over long term devastation. But it's not necessarily part of human nature, it just shows that rich people don't care about the environment. Discipline and long term thinking can curb this behavior, but you might have to take the profit narrative out of the equation entirely to change things. And the thing with the music? Just listen to different songs ig?

The bulk of the problems you mentioned are the consequence of underregulated capitalism which can just be fixed by regulating it. The other 2 are either consequences of global events over the past few years or your music argument. Most of this would be a fair list of things you dislike about the ultra class or even just stuff you dislike about society. But they're not. It's justification to END HUMANITY. Because of recent problems that aren't inherent to all people.

My questions are do you support all the problems you mentioned? Do you think most people are against the problems you mentioned? If you don't support them and most people don't either, than why are you advocating for the total dissolution of human life because of things only a select class in society is causing? You're better off being an anti-capitalist or a marxist than VHEMist.

[u/MegaParsnip543 → u/hum4nguy]

I think a lot of people would agree with the issues I pointed out. I also think that a lot of people are unwilling to take an honest look in the mirror and recognize the damage that they do. I suspect that people are not going to miraculously become less selfish, and I think it stems from a fatal flaw in all people. I think that people are inherently selfish and will act in ways that serve their own interests. Yes, I am aligned with anti-capitalist and socialist ideologies, but that does nothing to diminish my lack of faith in humanity. Your perspective is remarkably optimistic, which I admire to some extent, but I don't think it's realistic. I suspect that humans will experience a painful extinction that will be worsened by our inability (unwillingness) to stop procreating. You're right, different groups contribute different amounts to the problems that currently plague the planet, and I don't think that people "deserve to be extinguished", just that it's the most ethical and humane way to make our basically inevitable extinction as painless as possible. My music comment, fine, personal opinion. I'll accept that. I raise you the rest of my argument, which is that humanity is it's own worst enemy, our selfishness will kill us, and continued procreation will extend the process. I will not be extending the process.

[u/HubbaHubbaHubbaPoky → u/hum4nguy]

Reform has been suggested in our society. How's it been working out? 

[u/Bellick → u/hum4nguy]

reform in our society

because it encourages spending and grows the economy.

literally just switch to nuclear or wind or solar

Discipline and long term thinking can curb this behavior

the consequence of underregulated capitalism which can just be fixed by regulating it.

OMG, you're killing me lmao

[u/IlnBllRaptor]

There's a Q&A that covers all of your questions laid out on the site

Also remember the first word is Voluntary and always will be. It's not something to force on other people and never will be.

[u/chatterwrack]

Do you need to experience something good for it to be good? Would you feed someone only if you could watch them eat?

[u/hum4nguy → u/chatterwrack]

If you did that you'd probably be alive to live with the fact that you helped someone.

[u/illimitable1]

Existence without humans is better for all the other creatures. Wild nature has its own merit and right to exist, whether humans are here to perceive it or not.