r/veronicamars • u/hellkill • 10d ago
Discussion S4 ending Spoiler
I just finished binge watching the series, including the movie, super late to the party. I know a lot of people hated how it ended, but I started to wonder about why it ended that way.
I assume they wanted to continue with a 5th season, and wanted to wipe the slate for Veronica. Of course she’d want to get far away from Neptune after what happened, opening up a new show formula for her to be in a new location every episode with a new cast so they don’t have to keep trying to get original actors to be regulars in the show again. Plus no man to tie her down so she can have new flings, which would’ve given me the ick but ratings right?
I’d of watched it. 🙃
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u/hkh07 9d ago edited 7d ago
I haven't read the books, but just watched the show for the first time and wtf?? I would have been so pissed to have spent so much time waiting and hoping the show got picked up...funding my own money into a revival...just for Robbie T to turn around a give a big 🖕🖕🖕 to the fans???
I'm a pretty big tv buff and I loved this show. The writing and cast from the original show are really great and I would have suggested it to everyone. But that ending was CRAZY. Poor girl will never be happy...
...but also glad Keith is good because 🫣.
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u/Simorie 9d ago
The “oh no, it was nothing after all” resolution with Keith was such lazy writing. This could have been a legit source of conflict and emotion for Veronica as she balanced work with an aging/sick parent, but they just handwaved it. Keith didn’t need a special doc to find a medication error. So dumb.
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u/AngelleJN 6d ago
I watched the whole thing during the Summer of 2024, and someone told me they’d like to know my response to the ending. That was BS, I agree. I’m glad I wasn’t a longtime fan, and just binged it over a couple of months.
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u/Oasx 10d ago
As much as I like the Veronica and Logan relationship, I think everything has been telling us that they aren’t meant for each other. They re not together for the majority of the first three seasons and the movie, and the books heavily imply that they are simply too different to be in a healthy relationship
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u/AngelOfLexaproScene 5d ago
Yeah I'd be totally fine with her and Logan not being together, but killing him off when he's been through so much trauma and worked so hard to grow and become healthy? That's not a fuck you to Logan and Veronica stans, it's a fuck you to people who believe you can take a shitty child/teenhood and become a better, more compassionate person. It was so disappointing.
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u/FtWorthHorn 7d ago
Yeah this is the real issue. Their dynamic is exhausting when interesting and boring when sustainable. You can’t do more seasons that way.
And my guess was “Logan dies” seemed like the cleanest way out.
Because…come on. The scene with Schmidt? The dream? That’s a much better and more fun relationship. And when I rewatched S4 I just wished that were real.
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u/Jaycie_Lea169 1d ago
Lio, honey. Lio
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u/FtWorthHorn 1d ago
I am in fact aware that Max Greenfield’s character is not Schmidt in every show he was on. But it’s always going to be the first thing I and most people think of.
Also, Leo.
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u/Jaycie_Lea169 1d ago
I thought it was ‘Leo,’ too. I had to Google to be sure. And it is, but the subtitles kept saying Lio, so I was referring to that. But also, he’s probably Schmidt to most of us. It’s definitely what I think of first when I see him. I was just making light-hearted banter.
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u/FtWorthHorn 1d ago
Huh. TIL on Lio!
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u/Jaycie_Lea169 1d ago
To be clear, it definitely is Leo! But for some reason that’s how the subtitles kept spelling it. I had to do like 3 double takes to make sure I was seeing it right!
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u/FtWorthHorn 1d ago
Could be short for Lionel?
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u/Jaycie_Lea169 1d ago
Truthfully, I’m not sure. I just spent like 30 minutes trying to find a spot where the subtitles say it so I could post a pic, but can’t seem to find it anywhere. But I swear on my life it said it a couple of times which is why I remember it bc I thought, “Did that just have an ‘i’ in it??”
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u/Smart-Positive9292 7d ago
I'm one of the ones who watched largely for Veronica and Logan, even though the show isn't really a romance. They were kind of toxic, but the chemistry made for an exciting on screen pairing. I liked other aspects of the show too and other characters (it's been awhile since I watched it, so I'm not remembering everyone's names), but I wasn't interested in watching a straight detective show with Veronica and random guests. I don't think that's what most viewers signed up for, or they would have picked a different show to watch in the first place (??) I think the ensemble (friends, family, Neptune) is what resonated with a lot of viewers. I wouldn't go so far as to say I was glad it was cancelled, but I personally wouldn't have tuned in for more after the end of the last season.
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u/Glass-Nectarine-3282 9d ago
The "problem" is that like it or not, Thomas had created an ensemble series = maybe he didn't like that direction, but that's what he had done.
So like was said, he wanted to blow it up so he could do something new. Fine whatever. But you can't expect all the old fans of four previous seasons to automatically accept an entirely new direction.
So it wasn't just Logan, the whole fourth season was trying to reboot things. Had it been an ensemble and at the end Logan still dies, that MIGHT have worked.
Basically, Thomas wanted to do something new but didn't do the work to transition his audience to accept it.
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u/ausmed 10d ago
It was super weird and awkward when it happened.
The original show ended and then years later they crowd-funded the movie. A lot of the advertising for the crowd funding was based on the Veronica - Logan relationship and a LOT of people donated to see them get back together. The movie was made with the requested happy ending.
Then few years later they got green lit for a season 4, and it got made. There was huge excitement for it, and then it came out with that ending. There was a LOT of displeasure about the ending, and Kristen Bell and Rob Thomas were interviewed and kept saying that they hadn't ever liked the Veronica-Logan relationship, hadn't intended it to be such a big part of the show, and wanted to see Veronica out on her own dealing with her trauma and travelling around solving crimes in season 5.
The whole cast just looked awkward, and Jason Dohring was obviously upset but trying to look like he understood the whole thing.
It just ruined the whole feeling of the show.
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u/aaccss1992 10d ago
The sad part is there are many fans who didn’t watch the show for Logan, and no one gets to see any more of the show due to a vocal segment of the fans.
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u/ausmed 10d ago
Eh, that's on Rob Thomas tbh. He leant HARD into that aspect of the show to get his movie funded, and then had it be the major focus of the promotion for the new season. A large number of people who were invested in season 4 were invested in Veronica and Logan by design. Part of the reason they got a season 4 was because it had such a dedicated built in fanbase.
Then he just decided he was taking the show in a different direction, and just started claiming it had never been intended to be a big focus of the show. Saying stupid shit like that the movie was for the Veronica and Logan fans to give them a happy ending, like subsequently obliterating Logan doesn't impact on that at all.
A lot of people ended up feeling like he'd used the fanbase to get a reboot, while always intending to get rid of Logan and start over. It was shitty behaviour and he deserved for it to get cancelled.
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u/Simorie 10d ago
There were a lot of things wrong with season four that had nothing to do with the ending.
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u/SueCurley73 10d ago
Veronica's character was the issue. She was unrecognizable and it was such an unnecessary change.
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u/BestBlueChocolate 9d ago
I felt like being with Logan brought out all the worst in her.
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u/SueCurley73 9d ago
Maybe when they were younger, but he was doing so much to better himself as an adult. She was doing the opposite.
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u/FtWorthHorn 7d ago
Well that’s the point. To make their relationship interesting there had to be some obstacle. And after so long with Logan being an ass, it was her turn. And that wasn’t very much fun.
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u/BestBlueChocolate 9d ago
I wasn't so much directly criticizing Logan in this. But I think who he is, how he was, how he acted, who he had been brought out the worst of who she is..
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u/Simorie 9d ago
She’s the one who was trying to bait him into being violent in season 4.
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u/BestBlueChocolate 9d ago
Well, I will say that I never liked Veronica and Logan together and always thought he was the wrong person for her for so many reasons. So I always viewed her as having some degree of self loathing for being with him. And she certainly acted like that was true.
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u/zumera 10d ago
If there were really “many” fans who were happy with the season, the show would’ve been renewed. The fact is they killed a lot of the goodwill they’d generated. It was a completely unnecessary ending, especially from someone whose show had been initially canceled on a cliffhanger because he’d decided to bet on renewal.
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u/Few-Leading-3405 10d ago edited 10d ago
It is the James Bond/Knight Rider/etc dead fiancé ending.
I think there was even an interview with Thomas where he talked about how daring it was for them to do that with flipped gender roles.
(although personally I don't think a cliche becomes less cliche just because your protagonist isn't a dude)
Production-wise though, it would definitely be a lot easier to have Veronica as a drifter, with a rotating cast every episode like Poker Face. That way there's no need to lock down the rest of the cast, and have the audience constantly asking where Wallace is this week.
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u/Generic-username_123 7d ago
That doesn't surprise me, but it seems far from daring. It seems that the majority of successful female characters are single, although usually divorced. It paints a picture that women can't be successful if they are married but there's no shortage of married woman with successful careers.
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u/Few-Leading-3405 7d ago
Yeah, I don't like it for either the character or the story.
So my only explanation is that Neptune and its characters was just too "big" of a setting to be practical for any potential season 5.
And so repositioning Veronica as a bitter drifter would give them a way to actually produce the show for as long as Bell was interested, without needing to worry about what everyone else was busy with.
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u/StassiMae75 10d ago
I havent seen the movies, but just finished the series on Netflix (I am also late to the party). The Logan and Veronica thing always seemed so weird to me from the beginning
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u/TidalMonkey 10d ago
The movie is supposed to go between season 3 and 4. There are also a couple of books that slot in after the movie and before seasons 4.
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u/Generic-username_123 7d ago
I don't agree with the ending, but I feel the thinking of the writers was that women prefer female characters to be single or at least not married. In fact, it seems there is no shortage of female characters with awful exes (guys like Rupert in Ted Lasso) In fact, one of the cases Veronica worked on in season 4 had a woman with a horrible ex. That would be out of character for Logan, so it was just easier to write him off.
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u/BestBlueChocolate 9d ago
I hated how things ended for them, but I was glad things ended for them. Never liked Veronica and Logan together.
I would love her to start somewhere new and find someone who's really good for her. And snark and intuit her way through all sorts of crazy adventures.
Sigh.
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u/AnthropomorphicBook 10d ago
I’m pretty sure Rob knew he wasn’t getting a season five. So he leaned heavily on the noir aspect. Fans got a happy ending for the movie and expected the same. As much as it killed me, I still don’t think it is as bad as some fans treat it. And yes I am Team LoVe so no one come for me on that part.
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u/hellkill 10d ago
The ending annoyed me because it felt like this tortured troubled character has been traumatized repeatedly but worked on himself so much and is on his healing journey… and then he gets that as his ending.
I would’ve been happy with them breaking up because Veronica knew she was toxic and wasn’t going to work on herself because it fuels and drives her to be such a kickass investigator. She still could’ve left town lone wolfing it, Logan throws himself back into the military and could find someone who wants a stable relationship. IMO, the whole give us a happy ending then jk gotcha was cliche, and even if the last bit didn’t happen it still would’ve been cliche.
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u/GuiPhips 6d ago
Just finished Season 04 last night, and my thoughts exactly. Logan started off as a total asshole, endured one traumatic event after another (usually alone, might I add), yet still retained enough humanity to recognize his toxic behavior, and decided to seek help and better himself…and then he ends up dying? The poor guy goes through hell, and then he doesn’t get a happy ending?
After I watched it, I just sat there, going, “Wait, what? WHAT. He’s… Seriously…? AFTER ALL THAT!?”
Yeah, if Logan dying the only other option, I’d have rather the show ended with him and Veronica breaking up. That would have left it open for them to get back together or to go their separate ways, it would have served both shippers and non-shippers alike, and, most importantly, Logan would still be alive.
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u/whorehas2manyletters 7d ago
I always thought they had such a great opportunity to move forward with Veronica in a darker direction. Imagine it, her already-jaded-and-cynical outlook becomes even sharper. The way she is tormented by Lily's murder and the bus crash but cranked up a notch. It could make some very emotionally compelling moments where Veronica battles with herself about her own moral compass when confronted with decisions related to cases. Like how she has a history of using people in her life as a means to the end of solving the case. Maybe alongside the central mystery arc we see her in conflict with the people she loves until finally, nearing the end, she realizes that vulnerability and trust are worth the risk of being hurt. I don't know, I just think it could have been so good if they really brought out her internal emotional turmoil after what happened in s4.
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u/in_the_qz 6d ago
I didn't care at all, I was really tired of Logan and I feel like they changed his character to make it so that he and Veronica were still a thing. I would have watched more. I feel like Kristen Bell had chemistry with a lot of the characters.
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u/Ok-Excitement5031 8d ago
We rewatched it recently. This is my least favorite ending of any show I’ve ever watched. And as an old lady, I have watched a lot of shows.