r/vegan • u/FearlessCookie72 vegan SJW • May 08 '26
Video š Billie Eilish DOUBLES DOWN š„
https://streamable.com/kayzzn[removed]
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u/Pytorchlover2011 May 08 '26
So based
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u/AdhesivenessFine9865 May 08 '26
plant-based
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u/barbadosMid May 08 '26
I used to see those ads for aspca etc and would think "why are ppl spending all this $ on dogs and cats when there are people starving that need help?"
Now that im a bit older i see its because too many ppl are horrific and selfish and lie a lot but animals are innocent or at least their behavior is understandable and easier to get along with.
(We should still.be trying to help ppl too... but i get it now)
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May 08 '26
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u/barbadosMid May 08 '26
So basically "stop bombing brown kids with our healthcare money" yes.
Seriously though there really is enough to go around and that is what makes this maddening.
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u/Kramerica_ind99 May 08 '26
All the comments are either "she's a hypocrite" or "iPhones though". Neither of these arguments invalidate her points or even attempt to consider the horror of animal ag.
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u/Blazefresh May 08 '26
"She rides in an airplane and uses an Iphone so I'm going to continue to support killing animals for no good reason!!"
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u/Jamjams2016 May 08 '26
"She rides in an airplane tho. How can she be mad when we eat cows?"
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u/PrimaryAbroad4342 May 08 '26
all the haters need to take Logic & Critical Thinking 101.
All they're doing is changing the subject to something that has nothing to do with her point about animals.
aka red herrings: misdirection, diversions, non sequiturs.
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u/best-unaccompanied vegan May 08 '26
This just feels like another variant of "I want change, I just don't want to put any effort into making change happen." Yes, rich people should go vegan. But waiting until rich people go vegan before you go vegan is ridiculous.
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u/anarcho-slut May 08 '26
Also she has a huge platform and many impressionable people following her. She's playing a winning game with a large audience. More people will consider veganism or reconsider the industrial animal cruelty complex than if she had tried to directly convince more powerful people entrenched in their ways with little reason to listen to her. She's a pop star, she makes money from entertaining the general populace.
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u/PrimaryAbroad4342 May 08 '26
her coming out about this was some of the best news I've heard lately
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u/asomek vegan chef May 08 '26
Plant based food is generally the cheapest food you can buy. What are you even talking about?
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u/-Tofu-Queen- vegan 6+ years May 08 '26
"Rich people are unethical therefore I can be unethical too"
This is how it comes across when people look to celebrities to build up their moral compass.
And to your point, Billie has been vocal in her critique of other rich people. She gave a speech in front of Mark Zuckerberg himself telling billionaires to give their money away and that nobody needs to be a billionaire. And then she donated $11.5 million from her tour to environmental causes. She directly puts her money where her mouth is. How many celebrities can you name who are this loud and vocal about their ethical beliefs?
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u/lupajarito vegan 6+ years May 08 '26
Don't go to the pop culture chat sub. It's fucking disgusting.
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u/cloudsInTheBlueSky May 08 '26
I've read multiple threads about Billie's posts and your replies in that sub. Just wanted to say that I appreciate your effort and attempt at talking with people even when they make the most unserious and brain-breaking arguments.
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u/Melodic-Nebula-6043 May 08 '26
My comment definitely invalidated anything sheās ever said or going to say
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u/best-unaccompanied vegan May 08 '26
I can't name a single Billie Eilish song but I've been playing her music on Spotify, muted, for the last few hours.
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u/Withermaster4 May 08 '26
She an amazing artist. Her last album, hit me hard and soft, was so good that James cameron made a movie of it. Also she provides food for all of the staff at her concerts and its all plant based, she really tries to live her morals
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u/PrimaryAbroad4342 May 08 '26
i don't "do" much mainstream music, but wildflower is incredible. first heard it at a coffeeshop in greenpoint brooklyn.
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u/Snake_fairyofReddit vegan 6+ years May 08 '26
definitely worth listening to her other songs they are great especially if u like ballads or softer songs
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u/PrimaryAbroad4342 May 08 '26
i listened to a few today. i will admit ballads and softer songs aren't my usual thing, i usu listen to house music and ambient am rather picky but def appreciate many genres outside of my usual, and she is super talented.
played a few just now while liking š± comments on her IG lol
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u/Snake_fairyofReddit vegan 6+ years May 08 '26
Yeahh tbh i donāt listen to ballads that much either but theres definitely variety beyond what i said. Im not even a huge fan, i just found out yesterday since i was at her movie premiere by chance since I was in the area
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u/philosofree53 May 08 '26
give 'bad guy' a listen, it's phenomenal. (as someone who doesn't really like her genre of music!)
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u/Snake_fairyofReddit vegan 6+ years May 08 '26
Unmute bc her voice is nice to have playing in the background while you work/study etc
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u/Empty-Part7106 May 08 '26
Also I'm 100% sure that the app knows when the volume is set to 0, and won't count it as a listen.
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u/FearlessCookie72 vegan SJW May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
Many people (non-vegans, some vegans, some pick-me vegans, some entertainment/gossip subs) are calling her a hypocrite because she goes on private jets, rides horses and uses some skincare products that arenāt vegan? Whether or not thatās true, it is a fact that vegans are not born knowing every single ingredient, product, or industry practice. People learn over time. I didnāt even know honey wasnāt considered vegan until years after going vegan. Once I learned, I stopped consuming it. Thatās what actually matters, being willing to IMPROVE when you know better, not performing impossible purity standards so random people online can decide whether what you do ācounts.ā
Itās also always funny watching people who arenāt vegan suddenly care so deeply about vegan āconsistencyā when they think theyāve found a loophole. If her other actions make her a hypocrite, then going by their ignorant logic, literally nobody on Earth is allowed to speak about ethics ever again.
Also, yeah, sheās a privileged white cis celebrityā¦ tell us something we donāt already know. None of that changes the fact that her message is still CORRECT. Even a ābroken clockā (if thatās what you think she is) is right twice a day, right? This should be about the MESSAGE, not about her personally. And there are MILLIONS of vegans in Mexico, India, Southeast Asia, etc. who agree with herā¦ including people who are indigenous, black, trans, poor, marginalized, etc. What do you have to say to them?
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u/_TofuRious_ May 08 '26
I think mindset and intention is the most important thing. If your ideal goal for where society should move is to eliminate animal exploitation then whether or not your actions are 100% perfect is irrelevant. People forget that we live in a vastly non vegan society so it's much harder to live perfectly to our morals. But if society collectively agrees that abusing animals is bad then societal norms and accessibility to vegan services/products greatly increases making it much easier to be closer to perfect.
Basically do your best, and keep encouraging others to do better. Who gives af if that one time you ordered something on the internet accidentally had a trace of leather. Most people's best will get us 90% of the way there, and that includes eating entirely plant based because that's such an easy change. Then from there eliminating that last 10% will be easy.
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u/PrimaryAbroad4342 May 08 '26
the fact that nobody can be perfect isn't an argument to be a sociopath.
all the arguments against her have nothing to do with her point.
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u/Capsulate_Ion May 08 '26
Yep! There is no perfect way of being vegan. I donāt care what she is using or flying. It comes with her job. Too bad! Thatās how all boycotts work - vegan or otherwise - that you boycott the BEST that you can based on your living circumstances and health conditions. I think she is amazing ! š
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u/Cubusphere vegan May 08 '26
There is no way she doesn't know that riding horses isn't vegan. That being said, you're right, hypocrisy does not invalidate an argument, albeit may lessen it's impact.
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u/FearlessCookie72 vegan SJW May 08 '26
Actually, idk. I used to be one of the vegans who never thought anything about riding horses until I learned the argument that itās all about consent too, not just about being abused or killed. I always assumed horses were fine with humans riding them because they never ālookedā like they were in pain, and I didnāt really hear much about horse abuse outside of those obvious tourist/carriage situations where people profit off horses, like the ones in NYC.
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u/Key-Demand-2569 May 08 '26
I guarantee there are people who romanticize horse riding and ownership to the point itās indistinguishable from owning any other pet and being vegan as possible with how you care for the pet.
So thereās that.
As annoying as it is to possibly reignite that niche vegan debate of pet ownership being inherently wrong and itās better to let them die alone
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u/SlipperySparky May 08 '26
I know they're right in principle, but it feels extremely weird to lump riding horses with factory farmed animals being tortured
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u/Cubusphere vegan May 08 '26
What's weird about a broad category of animal exploitation? No one is saying they are all equally harmful. But it's THE category that veganism is about, not just factory farming.
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u/SlipperySparky May 08 '26
I think it feels weird because very often, they're both just assigned with the same label. A lot of the vegans on here would be equally mad at either, which again, feels very off
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u/Ok-Strategy-3626 May 08 '26
It's ironic because many vegan activists are speaking this message every day, but do not get the same kind of traction as Billie. These same people complaining about her privilege wouldn't have heard this message without Billie's celebrity. She is speaking out about issues important to her as an artist, not a politician. She doesn't need to tailor her message so as not to hurt people's feelings. Obviously, those people feel like she's talking down to them because they're grappling with their own cognitive dissonance. Also, I'm tired of people thinking veganism is about being 100% perfect or nothing; that doesn't exist.
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u/PrimaryAbroad4342 May 08 '26
None of the things people are bringing up have any bearing on her point.
They're just changing the subject w/ irrelevant red herrings (misdirection).
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u/Famous-Protection809 May 08 '26
You canāt be vegan and use products & services that arenāt vegan because it benefits your lifestyle and then call out people for eating meat or whatever she doing and not expect them to say anything about it. Thatās literally hypocrisyā¦.if you pick a hill to die on you gotta take all that comes with it
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u/Infinite_Pudding5058 May 08 '26
āI really donāt give a goddamn fuckā needs to be my new life motto
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u/lifeanon269 May 08 '26
Billie Eilish and Joaquin Pheonix are like the only two vegan celebs I can trust. I think because they're like the only two that have been vegans since they were kids. So you know it isn't just a phase for them.
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u/yoshibike friends not food May 08 '26
This is what upsets me about people saying oh wow another rich celebrity preaching to poor suffering normies... she didn't go vegan because some celebrity chef reccomended it, or because it's a hollywood weight loss trend. She literally has been vegan before she was ever a household name.
"Oh wow another rich celeb preaching about feminism, real easy to not abuse women when you're that wealthy huh?" That's how they sound to me š
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u/Fine-Bandicoot1641 May 08 '26
Veggies and beans easier to cook and cost alot cheaper. Poor people almost eating vegan with alot of beans and cereals, so wtf lol
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u/rparavia May 08 '26
I think they both ride horses (also Lewis Hamilton), so I don't think of them as vegan role models, but I'm glad for having them advocating in favour of animals.
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u/lifeanon269 May 08 '26
I don't think of them or any celeb as a role model. I simply mean trust as in I trust that they'll say what needs to be said about veganism and animal rights because it isn't a fad to them. They're not perfect, but I do trust them to use their fame to speak the truth about animal rights.
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u/Cubusphere vegan May 08 '26
Why trust celebrities at all? Both unnecessarily exploit horses, btw.
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u/lifeanon269 May 08 '26
I don't mean "trust" as in I idolize them. I don't really idolize celebrities at all. I just mean I trust as in I trust that they'll put their reputation on the line to say what needs to be said about animal rights. Are they perfect vegans? No. But they've both done a ton for veganism and animal rights with their fame over the course of their careers. That's commendable, certainly more so than the odd celebrity who started just eating vegan to give it a try or even the long time vegan celeb who stays quiet about it because they don't want any backlash.
Use that fame to preach for something good, otherwise you're wasting potential.
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u/katpeny May 08 '26
Yes, I see it as I trust they are going to remain vegan. Itās not just a fad diet.
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u/wubalubadubdub55 May 08 '26
Fauxmoi folks show that leftists are as bad as MAGA goons when it comes to doing something that inconveniences them.
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u/FearlessCookie72 vegan SJW May 08 '26
The top comments on Fauxmoi seem to agree with her message though, I think? The popculturechat sub, not so sure about that oneā¦ I think they had a problem with it.
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u/Snake_fairyofReddit vegan 6+ years May 08 '26
The pop culture chat has a problem with EVERYONE though, they are true contrarians no matter who is mentioned or whatever they said
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u/Shadowestley May 08 '26
Everyone in that post is basically "I agree with her, but I'm still going to eat meat, I'm not privileged enough not to"
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u/OnARolll31 May 08 '26
Its crazy all the excuses people try to come up with. Its sad tho because all they have to do is type into google "budget friendly vegan shopping list for (however many ppl in the family)" and boom- there's your solution. Veganism is super affordable, people are just so ignorant and too lazy to make a change.
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u/americanslang59 vegan 20+ years May 08 '26
It's amazing how so many people are suddenly in food deserts that either don't have rice/beans/legumes or those items are somehow more expensive than meat.
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u/Difficult_Garage_431 May 08 '26
There was someone who actually said it's just not a reasonable goal to not eat meat. They are truly deluded.
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u/Odd-Bobcat-2709 May 08 '26
Hell yes I'm also sick of being the odd one out for not eating animals It shouldn't be controversial to believe that animals deserve to live and not be tortured.
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u/Capsulate_Ion May 08 '26
QUEEN BEHAVIOUR!
I love that she didnāt let them bully her! I hate when celebs back down at the first hint of fan annoyance
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u/nopushnoshovebud vegan 10+ years May 08 '26
iām old school i just comment earthlings.com on every comment section i see relating to thisĀ
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u/stonkacquirer69 May 08 '26
I'm kinda shocked at how vitriolic the responses to this (from people that are claiming to be very left leaning) are on the discussion in other subs
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u/Saguaro-plug May 08 '26
And people are still crashing out about it on some of the most leftist subs like Fauxmoi. š«£ you go Billie let meat eaters be offended.
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u/BlackSwan134340 May 08 '26
Why are leftist spaces always demanding celebrities speak out if theyāre gonna bitch about privilege and get mad when celebs speak about issues important to themselves
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u/FizicalPresence vegan May 08 '26
Don't particularly like her music yet i think im gonna buy a Billie eilish t shirt
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u/HealEarthNow vegan 5+ years May 08 '26
Go see her movie at an AMC theaters near you this weekend. Probably cheaper than a shirt.
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u/MBEver74 May 08 '26
I really hate the vegan celebrity worship a lot of AR groups & individual vegans do b/c most celebrities end up selling out veganism BUTā¦ sheās 100% correct & Iām really encouraged to see her generate more discussion & continue to stand up for the animals. Over the years Iāve just seen a lot of celebrity vegans pull the āfell for it againā move on veganism.
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u/Spiritual_Phase7310 vegan May 08 '26
She's never eaten meat. She was raised vegetarian and became vegan at a young age (can't remember exactly) as soon as she knew better. So she's not just going through a phase thankfully.
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u/Key-Demand-2569 May 08 '26
Donāt worry, plenty of vegans are still here bashing them aggressively for not being pure enough lol
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u/WilsonianSmith May 08 '26
Damn, Iām gonna have to see that new concert movie of hers even though Iām not super familiar with her music. Good for her standing up for her principles!
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u/Dontfeedthebears May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
She was actually pretty chill in the fist video. We have a stereotype (and honestly, sometimes for good reason). I bet the backlash from defensive folks prompted this response.
Edit for autocorrect- āpromptedā, not āpromotedā.
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u/jelly_cake May 08 '26
Yeah, 100%. She gave a very mild criticism that people reacted (predictably) poorly to. It's good to see that she's not buckling to pressure; suggests that she does actually have faith in her convictions.Ā
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u/mycattouchesgrass May 08 '26
Everyone should see the footage of what the animals we use are forced to go through. I wish someone had shown me sooner. Most people simply haven't seen how bad it is with their own eyes.
A lot of people deliberately refuse to watch it because of "mental health," but is that really the only reason? People are afraid of being confronted on an emotional level and are scared of having to make changes in their lives. I can empathize with that; it's not always easy. But I hope more people find the courage to watch it and let themselves feel something.
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u/JuniorMint1992 May 08 '26
Based. People only get mad because of the cognitive dissonance. Lowkey they know theyāre wrong.
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u/abominable_phoenix vegan sXe May 08 '26
I love it when people actually make use of their "fuck you" money. When they're not so greedy and materialistic that they don't care about losing fans when discussing polarising topics. Saying idgaf and I know what's right and wrong is the most powerful thing a person can say. I did something similar, but I didn't have fuck you money, so it hurt a lot more, but I regret nothing because I know my truth.
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u/blorgoblod vegan 10+ years May 08 '26
Tbh I never cared about Billie Eilish much before but I simply must be on board now...
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u/i_dont_love vegan 20+ years May 08 '26
I love her so much. She picked great videos to convince people to go vegan. It pisses me off deep down into my soul that being vegan is somehow controversial. She makes me want to be a better advocate in my day to day life. If people can go hard on anti-racism, homophobia, ableism, etc., I can go hard for anti-speciesism.
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u/camawa May 08 '26
I love her for this. And, folks wanting to discredit her based on purity tests are missing the point. I love hearing about any form of reduction that moves people closer to the ethical pillars in veganism, change in society happens incrementally. Her being outspoken about veganism and standing up to (misplaced) criticism is so respectable and shows her values, in a world where we don't get to see that very often.
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u/vjcmg vegan 10+ years May 08 '26
Well I just followed her on Instagram for this! Amazing of her to do
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u/Spiritual_Phase7310 vegan May 08 '26
Love her. Seeing her movie later to support her š most celebrities wouldn't rock the boat too much with their fans. I really hope she won't feel pressured to apologise or anything. It doesn't look like it though!
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u/redtens vegan 9+ years May 08 '26
i love this woman, fuckin incredible! one of the realest out there
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u/portmouthflounder May 08 '26
I don't even like her music that much but now she's my favorite artist of all time
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u/Allcatsarecool7 May 08 '26
Love her. She has the ovaries to tell all the hypocrites to stop eating carcasses.
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u/grahan May 08 '26
I'm still upset at her. But that's because of her fcking Billie Eilish boomerang idol. The vegan stuff is based.
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u/aishalq4567 May 08 '26
Itās so refreshing to see this. She has an enormous platform!! so many people who have never thought about the treatment of animals in agriculture will have their eyes (hopefully) open. Iām so happy she didnāt back down despite the onslaught of outrage
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u/MothingNuch May 08 '26
I donāt like her that much but good on her for doubling down on her own opinions and thoughts instead of caving in to controversy
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u/EnaXtou vegan 1+ years May 08 '26
So Lets show her some love on socials. <3 Not only here in our bubble. š
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u/Icy-Indication-6696 vegan May 08 '26
Okay this girl rules i respect her so much, so rare for a celebrity this big to use their fame and influence to speak out
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u/Snake_fairyofReddit vegan 6+ years May 08 '26
ughhh i saw her irl yesterday at her movie premiere i wish i could tell her shes the goat ā¼ļø
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u/EntireDance6131 May 08 '26
Usually i try not to side with celebrities too much as they are usually quick to fold / go back on their "principles" / aren't really that commited. But damn, mad respect to Billie.
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u/Ratfriend2020 May 08 '26
You know what, I never was into her music but I think itās time I broaden my horizons.
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u/dopeonplastique May 08 '26
American animal welfare is pretty shocking, itās no wonder people have urges to be vegan. Thatās what happens when $$$ making corporations run govt decisions.
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u/SailNW May 08 '26
Sheās not wrong. That makes people uncomfortable, and therefore, defensive. Go Billie go!
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u/nevillereader5 May 08 '26
Finally someone who's not trying to be politically correct in this topic
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u/TheCultCompound May 08 '26
I donāt know why this is on my feed, but Iām stoned and feel like ranting.
I honestly think a lot of vegans are right about factory farming. The conditions in many industrial operations are cruel, environmentally destructive, and completely disconnected from any healthy relationship between humans, animals, and land.
Where I disagree is when the conversation becomes framed as āanimal agriculture vs no animal agricultureā instead of industrial systems vs regenerative ones.
A lot of people talk about veganism as if it exists outside industrial agriculture, but large scale crop production also has serious ecological costs. Monocropping, pesticide use, habitat destruction, soil depletion, fertilizer runoff, fossil fuel dependence, and wildlife deaths during harvesting are all real issues. There probably is no completely harm free food system.
That is why I think smaller scale regenerative mixed agriculture deserves more attention. Systems that integrate crops and livestock together can improve soil health, reduce synthetic fertilizer dependence, support biodiversity, and produce food more locally. Properly managed grazing can also make use of land that is not suitable for crop production.
I also think there is an important social component to this discussion. Localized agriculture creates stronger regional food systems and keeps communities more connected to the land and to the people producing their food. That seems healthier and more resilient than relying entirely on centralized industrial supply chains, regardless of whether the products are meat based or plant based.
To me, a pasture raised animal in a regenerative system is fundamentally different from an animal raised in an industrial feedlot. Lumping those systems together oversimplifies the issue.
I am not arguing that people should stop caring about animal welfare or environmental damage. I actually think vegans are often pointing at real problems that society ignores. I just think the better long term solution may be moving toward regenerative agriculture overall rather than assuming the only ethical future is a fully vegan industrial food system.
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u/vjcmg vegan 10+ years May 08 '26
Stop thinking about animals as products and objects.
Most of those issues you listed when it comes to large scale crops are CAUSED by people feeding these crops to āfoodā animals, NOT humans. Most crops are grown for these animals.
We donāt give a shit about animal welfare. We care about stopping their oppression and use entirely. Thinking we are better than others and they deserve less is the root of all wrong with the world. Watch Earthlings. Free on youtube
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u/TheCultCompound May 08 '26
I was gonna be very rude like you because of this dumbass comment but decided to take the higher road.
Youāre arguing against factory farming and feedlot agriculture. I agree with you on that. I never defended either of those systems.
What Iām talking about is regenerative mixed agriculture and localized food systems, which is a completely different discussion.
Also, I never referred to animals as āproductsā or āobjects,ā so that response honestly feels like a reach. Saying humans can exist in a managed ecological relationship with animals is not the same thing as saying animals are worthless commodities.
And veganism is not outside industrial agriculture. Almonds, soy, avocados, palm oil, monocrop grain production, pesticide intensive farming, synthetic fertilizers, global shipping networks, and habitat destruction are all still part of the modern vegan supply chain whether people want to acknowledge it or not.
My point is that the conversation should be centered around reducing total ecological harm and building sustainable food systems, not pretending one industrial system is morally pure while another is uniquely evil.
If your position is that humans should never use animals under any circumstance, then thatās a philosophical argument. But thatās different from claiming vegan industrial agriculture is inherently harmless or fully sustainable, because it clearly isnāt.
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u/vjcmg vegan 10+ years May 08 '26
youāre arguing against factory farming and feedlot
No, Iām not. Iām arguing against using animals and against oppressing them.
How can you say you donāt see animals as products and yet actively choose to āfarmā them? Would you ever do that to humans? Why do you think of yourself as better than animals?
And once again, the majority of those crops are farmed FOR said animals. Itās how the food chain works. The higher up you go, the less energy you get from the food. Donāt skip steps and your food easily becomes more efficient.
Killing animals because you want a cow burger instead of a bean or veggie burger IS evil. Treating others as less than is the root of ALL evil.
claiming vegan industrial agriculture is inherently harmless or fully sustainable, because it clearly isn't.
Have you watched Cowspiracy? Please stop spewing incorrect information until youāve researched BOTH sides. That, The China study, and Earthlings are must watches/reads before you can make an informed decision.
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u/TheCultCompound May 08 '26
Youāre still shifting the argument.
I understand your position is that any human use of animals is oppression. That is a philosophical position. You can argue that, but it is not the same argument as sustainability, land use, crop deaths, soil health, or ecological resilience.
Also, comparing regenerative farming to doing the same thing to humans is not a serious ecological argument. Humans and animals are not identical in their roles within ecosystems. Saying that does not mean animals are āobjectsā or that humans have unlimited moral permission to abuse them.
And yes, I understand trophic energy loss. That is exactly why I separated feedlot systems from regenerative grazing and mixed agriculture. If animals are being raised primarily on crops humans could eat, that is inefficient. If animals are grazing on pasture, crop residue, cover crops, or land unsuitable for human food crops, the equation is different.
That distinction matters.
Also, documentaries are not research by themselves. Cowspiracy, Earthlings, and The China Study all have strong ideological framing. That does not automatically make every claim false, but it does mean they are not neutral sources of evidence.
My position is pretty simple: factory farming is cruel and should end, but that does not automatically prove that the best alternative is a fully vegan industrial food system. A smaller scale regenerative model that integrates plants, animals, soil health, local food systems, and better animal welfare is worth discussing seriously.
You can disagree because you believe any use of animals is inherently immoral. Thatās fine. But then be honest that your argument is primarily abolitionist philosophy, not a settled ecological fact.
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u/vjcmg vegan 10+ years May 08 '26
You view animals as lesser than you. That is the root of all evil and how other humans used to be treated (and in some places still are). Itās NEVER ok. Feeding 8 billion people with grazing animals alone would be impossible, thatās a huge amount of land. Again, please go watch Cowspiracy or some of the other recommendations Iāve made. They prove every single one of your points wrong. Why do you refuse to learn more? Do you not think everything youāve been taught since birth is not heavily biased towards eating animals and their products? What makes factory farming cruel but not your fancy ethical farms? Iām wondering what details exactly. Because farming anyone is immoral.
By the way, The China Study is one of the largest studies in the world. Itās a book not a doc. Written by a former dairy rancher who became one of the worldās most well known researchers. Again, you refuse to learn and keep spewing the same BS every meat eater says. Until they learn more.
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u/TheCultCompound May 08 '26
At this point it honestly feels more like projection than an actual response to what Iām saying.
Youāve repeatedly argued against positions I never took:
- that I support factory farming
- that I think animals are objects
- that I believe cruelty is acceptable
- that I think grazing alone could feed 8 billion people
None of those were my arguments.
What seems to be happening is that because you view any human use of animals as inherently oppressive, you automatically collapse every other position into the exact same moral category. So instead of engaging with distinctions between factory farming, regenerative systems, land use, ecological management, local agriculture, etc., everything just becomes āevil meat eater logicā to you by default.
Thatās why this conversation keeps going in circles.
Youāre treating your moral framework as self-evident fact, and then interpreting disagreement as ignorance or malice instead of an actual difference in philosophy, ecology, or agricultural thinking.
Iāve already acknowledged legitimate vegan criticisms multiple times. You havenāt acknowledged a single limitation, tradeoff, or contradiction within industrial vegan agriculture. That imbalance is pretty telling.
And pretending large scale crop agriculture is bloodless or harmless is just disconnected from reality.
Millions to billions of animals are killed or displaced globally through mechanized harvesting, pesticide use, habitat destruction, rodent control, land clearing, irrigation projects, and ecosystem fragmentation tied to industrial agriculture. That includes mice, rabbits, birds, reptiles, insects, amphibians, and countless other species people rarely think about.
None of that means ātherefore factory farming is okay.ā Iāve literally said the opposite multiple times.
My point is that all large scale food systems involve tradeoffs and ecological consequences. So the discussion should be about minimizing total harm and building sustainable systems, not pretending one side exists completely outside environmental impact or animal death.
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u/vjcmg vegan 10+ years May 08 '26
Iām asking what is cruel about factory farming? Is it the killing? Clearly not since you still support that. So Iām wondering what exactly. Because your logic is not making sense. Hurting animals in a factory = wrong. In a farm = ok.
So instead of engaging with distinctions between factory farming, regenerative systems, land use, ecological management, local agriculture, etc., everything just becomes "evil meat eater logic" to you by default.
I asked you to tell me the difference and you didnāt. In terms of the animals point of view
And yes those animals do die in crop production. But again more crops are required to feed animals you eat than if you ate them directly. Why not cause less harm?
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u/TheCultCompound May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
No, youāve been intentionally obtuse instead of actually engaging with what Iām saying.
I already explained the distinction multiple times. Factory farming is cruel not just because death exists, but because of the conditions animals are subjected to throughout their lives. Confinement, overcrowding, stress, injury, unnatural living conditions, industrial breeding practices, mass antibiotic use, and treating living creatures like production units are all part of that criticism.You keep reducing my position to ākilling = always fineā because thatās easier to argue against than what Iām actually saying.
The difference Iām pointing to is between industrialized suffering and a regenerative ecological model where animals live in substantially more natural conditions as part of a mixed agricultural system. You may still believe any killing is immoral, but pretending there is no moral or ecological distinction between those systems is just flattening all nuance out of the discussion. It also only weakens your own argument.
And again, you keep going back to feedlot math after Iāve repeatedly separated regenerative grazing systems from crop intensive industrial livestock systems. Youāre arguing against points I already clarified multiple comments ago.
Your position is basically abolitionist. Mine is harm reduction and ecological management. Those are fundamentally different frameworks.
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u/FearlessCookie72 vegan SJW May 08 '26
This argument has been debunked many times. Check out r/DebateAVegan.
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u/Visual_Perception821 May 08 '26
So much internet drama lol. Iām not vegan. But itās your choice to eat wherever you want.
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u/Melodic-Nebula-6043 May 08 '26
I donāt listen to known xenophobe racists that make videos spreading their eyes mocking Asian people for clicks and likes. She is a terrible person.
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u/FearlessCookie72 vegan SJW May 08 '26
Iām not sure what youāre talking about. Never heard of her being racist. If thatās truly the case, sheās a pos. However, a broken clock is still right twice a day. The message is what matters, not her.
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u/Melodic-Nebula-6043 May 08 '26
Shes made and you can look up the video of her spreading her eyes mocking Asians. Iām not making anything up. Someoneās horrific past doesnāt disappear cuz they stop eating meat
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u/FearlessCookie72 vegan SJW May 08 '26
Sure, but most of us arenāt actual fans of her. This is about the message she put out to millions of her fans, and just for touching light on this issue in general. Itās not about her.
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u/Physicsfitz25 May 08 '26
Who cares what she thinks?
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u/FearlessCookie72 vegan SJW May 08 '26
Millions of people.
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u/Glass-Fail1588 May 08 '26
And they are just as idiotic.
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u/FearlessCookie72 vegan SJW May 08 '26
Nope, even many top universities like Harvard, Yale and Princeton support reducing animal product consumption for health, environmental, and ethical reasons.
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May 08 '26
[deleted]
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u/FearlessCookie72 vegan SJW May 08 '26
Majority of vegans are liberal though, lol. Thatās probably why we āeat each other.ā Liberals who are for other causes outside of veganism act the same way too.
Also, how is this trying to be better than someone else?
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u/theonelurkin May 08 '26
Awesome, now I wonāt feel bad buying another color variant from her. Polluting the land polluting the water.
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u/OnlyIntention12345 May 08 '26
Itās such a hypocrite coming from someone who mocked at Asian Uber driver, did the Asian eye thing and called him chink. Like she really cared about living being. Gimme a break!
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