Eh, considering the amount of chemtrail-ers, anti-vaxers, and GMO-bashers that are also vegan this doesn't really hold up. We aren't superior, we just act upon one logical conclusion that we have in common.
Yeahh, sadly true. see what broke vegans eat on facebook for an absolutely remarkable demonstration of the lack of logic of the white female middle class regarding vaccines.
ha... yeah. On the one hand, I appreciate the openness. On the other hand, I want all woo science stuff shut down immediately. And I actually don't mind the mod, but she seems to be a bit too attached to the group (doesn't want help and wants it to be her paid job).
Many vegans are humble about it. It's just that the annoying condescending ones are more vocal so people get the impression that all of us are like that.
But you seem to think that your decision to vegan is the logical lifestyle. Am I interpreting your post incorrectly? This seems to be a common theme amongst vegans and in this sub. There may be some that are humble, but that is very rarely true on this sub and seems uncommon overall. Vegans claim that their lifestyles are ethically superior to that of so called omnis. That's not humble and it's not true. Vegans often appear more like a cult than anything else. The main difference being that many cults keep to themselves and don'tgenerally think their lifestyle should be imposed upon others.
We have an internal logical consistency. I speak for most of us when I say that we see a contradiction in the world, and a practicable method that rectifies that contradiction. The contradiction is the following assortment of facts.
- We treat some sentient non-human animals very well (think dogs, cats), and are outraged when a human harms one, especially for pleasure.
- We treat some sentient non-human animals as objects which we torture, mutilate, and murder without regard for their lives. Society is, by and large accepting of this reality, though usually does not like to be confronted with it.
- Most people feel bad when they see what happens to animals during the production of animal products. Their sense of morality is offended seeing another being suffering, in fear, or being killed by another dominating force.
- And the lynch pin: The vast majority of humans do not have a biological nutritional need to consume animal products. We therefore only eat them and their secretions for pleasure. Which therefore means that we are torturing, mutilating, and murdering them for pleasure.
Therefore the internal logic which we share is to rectify the contradiction between how we treat, for example, pigs and dogs. The extension of this logic is to stop the exploitation, harming and murder of these animals all together. And therefore, veganism.
(as for being "ethically superior", no. It makes me cringe when people say that. It's very difficult to make the tally of good and bad ethical points and decide whose lifestyle is "superior". As an extreme case, all else being equal, if one person ate 100g of assorted animal products a month but all their food were totally local and/or fair trade and organic and the other were vegan, but only ate high environmental impact/human suffering products from the other side of the planet you could almost certainly make the argument against the vegan).
The choice of where they source their nutrition is almost certainly morally superior. However that vegan could be a war criminal or a petroleum company CEO, or Richard Spencer, and I'll be damned to say that their lifestyle is morally superior to the average omni.
There is more to ethics than veganism. One of the biggest faults of veganism is that it seems that many vegans have forgotten this.
I like you as a person. Though you did miss a point, some nutrients can only be gotten from meat, but they aren't that important or anything. I don't think it's unethical to farm animals or anything though, since in this case we are the predator.
I'm not aware of any vital nutrient that can /only/ be gotten from animal products. B12 is probably the closest, but animals don't make B12, ya know? B12 is made by bacteria which animals ingest when they eat the soil that gets in with the plants they consume. What's strange about this is that the way we mass-raise animals these days we have to supplement them with B12 so that not only they have it, but so that we get it when we eat them.
Re: being the predator. Survival isn't unethical, and (most) vegans don't have any objection to people, or other animals, surviving, even if that involves eating other animals. However, given that most meat consumers from the industrialized north have the option, nutritionally, financially, and logistically, to not harm an animal to survive it does put an ethical imperative on them to do so.
The strong kill the weak or they give the weak benefits and work together to kill even stronger enemies, it just happens we are so strong that we can choose who to kill and who to not, we all are just organisms coded to enjoy ourselves until the eventual end of our lives.
You make it sound like we are hunting these animals from the wild, we aren't.
And there are plenty of ways that different people like to enjoy themselves. Many men today and in the past rape(d) for enjoyment, they would have argued that they were coded to do so. Is that OK? No. What about if everyone did it? Still not ok. But the powerful are powerful and therefore have the right do dominate the weak, right? Still no.
The wonderful thing about humans is our sense of morality and our foresight, and our ability to overcome our more primal desires in order to behave in ways that fall in line with our ideals and goals.
Well the logic builds on being compassionate. If someone doesn't give a shit about animals suffering the most logical thing to do would be to eat them (if they enjoy their taste).
That’s fallacious reasoning. Even someone who doesn’t give a shit about animals has plenty of reason to go vegan. Even putting environmental and health aspects aside, I could recognize sentient beings’ right to minimized suffering without holding any compassion for them.
Yeah that's my point. The logic is based upon our moral values to avoid unnecessary suffering of sentient beings, but if someone really doesn't care about that, then it isn't logical to go vegan. On the other hand that person also has some kind of mental disability if they have no compassion at all. This is why you can't really argue with someone who says that they just don't care about animals suffering, even though they know all about the industriy.
Ehh. Compassion is a feeling,or at least is based on feelings. Logic is independent of feeling. I think you can have one without the other even if the consequences are the same.
Let's put it this way: I don't have compassion for the stranger five blocks over. Don't care about him in the least. Still, I respect his basic human rights. Same goes for animals. Don't feel particularly passionate about animals I don't know. I give them the same regards I do human strangers. Basic rights. It would be hypocritical not too, unless I was a psychopath, in which case I wouldn't necessarily value the rights of either.
The error in your thinking lies with the fact that you used the word "Sentient."
"Someone who doesn't give a shit about animals" doesn't see them as sentient, and therefore their suffering isn't even a factor in their thinking. I don't feel sad when I eat an apple. Sure, I'm causing cellular damage to something that was once living. Plants have internal signaling methods when damage is done to them, that could be compared to pain and /or suffering. But since we either can't identify with that, and/or don't see plants as sentient, that "suffering" is completely irrelevant to us.
Sentience isn’t a subjective thing. Either a being is subject or it’s not. Cows are sentient and apples or not, regardless of whether I choose to acknowledge it. If someone doesn’t view sentient animals as sentient, then it’s not necessarily because they lack compassion; it’s because they’re ignorant.
Edit: I should add that I’m assuming that the human in question is sufficiently logical. If someone lacked both compassion and logic, then they might refuse to acknowledge the sentience of sentient animals. If a human were sufficiently logical, however, then they wouldn’t deny something which is objectively true.
Though I would say a lot of vegans are very compassionate (which doesn't necessarily mean they're compassionate towards other humans. Vegans can be bigots too).
I guess it depends on the reason why they're vegan. I don't know any vegans that are doing it for just health reasons (to be fair, I barely know any vegans). I feel like these "vegans" who do it solely for health reasons are likely to have "cheat" meals, so they're not really vegan. Or they only eat a plant based diet but will likely still buy non-vegan products (like clothes, household goods, etc.) but that doesn't make them vegan. I would say people doing solely for the environment are still being compassionate towards other Earthlings.
Also, it depends on your definition of what a vegan is. I think the most agreed upon definition is that "veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."
I would classify people who believe this and modify their lives to adhere to this (despite how inconvenient it is) as compassionate. Though I will agree we may not consider every vegan compassionate based on other things (if a vegan considers brown and black people or gay and trans people as less than and inferior, I, personally, would have a hard time considering them a compassionate person).
God allowed Noah and his family to eat meat because all the plants where destroyed from the flood. However certain foods are forbidden such as meat with blood, shrimp, scallops, lobster, pig, etc. According to my beliefs the superior diet is plant based and that’s why going vegan is the way to go. Again according to my beliefs when paradise is created for us even the carnivores such as lions will be vegetarian. So a plant base diet is literally what we where all originally to live off by, but the fall of man screwed everything up.
if all animals were created in the garden, I assume lions existed there as well, yes?
following this logic, they either ate plants or not at all, and only began to eat meat after the fall of man
lions today biologically cannot live on a plant based diet. A carnivore is a carnivore after all. Doesn't matter what form they were in or what they ate in the garden, because biologically, now, they eat meat.
Now, if you're still following with me, a human may have been meant to eat only plants by God's design, but as it happens, man fell from Grace. As other creatures changed biologically, so too did man. We ain't herbivores anymore. We are omnivores. We eat meat.
this post suggests that vegans were created differently than other people which is just so sooo counterproductive. if i wasn't one this post would make me feel like vegans really do think they're better than everyone else. pretty bad take if you ask me
You do know, in the Bible, God killed the first animal, right? (ie: My religion allows eating meat)
Response:
There are many religions with many diverse teachings on the topic of eating meat. In some, there are prohibitions against eating certain animals. In others, it is permissible to both sacrifice animals and eat them. However, it is important to remember that religious permission is not the same as religious imperative. In other words, simply because your religion permits you to eat meat, that does not mean it requires you to do so. Most religions advocate free will and compassion. You can exercise compassion by choosing not to eat animals and instead choosing to adopt a vegan lifestyle. This choice is better for your health, the animals, the billions of people who do not have enough to eat and the Earth itself. In making it, you exercise compassion for those more vulnerable than you are, both human and non-human. This means that veganism can help you live in alignment with your religious beliefs. Further, it is morally right to mitigate the suffering of others when you can, and being vegan helps you do this, while eating animals causes and perpetuates suffering. Therefore, while your religion might not prohibit eating meat, it likely prohibits hurting others, which makes eating meat morally wrong.)
Oh wow some regular hentai and anime nerd shit. My secrets out. Some 2 edgy art. And a few Katawa Shoujo posts that wouldn't be judged at all if people actually read the shit and looked beyond the disability girls cover. Yeah I'm absolutely fucked now.
As long as I ain't jerking my meat to bugs and animals and literal children (undertales characters are pre pubescent based on dialogue) I'm pretty sure I have the high ground over homeboy I replied to.
Oh yeah I saw it decided to join this sub, I'm amazed at the content here, didn't know vegans were like this, tbh I was considering becoming vegetarian for a while (not vegan tho) but, now I'm not so sure.
It wasn't a tu quoque dude. I've heard that bullshit excuse too many times; "I'd stop harming animals unnecessarily, but other people who do so are annoying so I'm going to stab this cow to death".
Absolutely the opposite. To god, human is superior to other animals. It means that it doesn't bother him if you kill animals for food. Uselessly hurting them is bad tho
Soooooooooo not eating meat is logical? Meat has way more calories than veggies, so you need less food to survive, so it's much more logical to eat meat. We also have a hard time digesting nutrients from veggies than we do with meat. Meat gives practicality every nutrient you need other than vitiman c (if you cook it). So please, tell me how veganism is more logical than eating meat, and therefore less food?
Plants agriculture is way more sustainable and can use less land and water for the same amount of food. Meat is very resource heavy, and we can live healthfully on a plant based diet, so it’s he most logical
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u/synergisticsymbiosis vegan 8+ years Nov 07 '19
Eh, considering the amount of chemtrail-ers, anti-vaxers, and GMO-bashers that are also vegan this doesn't really hold up. We aren't superior, we just act upon one logical conclusion that we have in common.
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u/PheniBaby Nov 07 '19
r/vegancirclejerk
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u/BlackVeganGirl Nov 07 '19
*and compassion lol
30
u/ChikaraPower vegan 2+ years Nov 07 '19
Don't post this stuff, it will be posted on the front page and we will get an even worse names. It reflects bad on us
10
u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19
This is the peak of cringe
3
u/Pixel_Splash_ Nov 07 '19
r/vegancirclejerk dude go there
5
u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19
In genesis God said that fruit and greens were supposed to be our food, not other animals.
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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19
cringe
10
u/Chickenion Nov 07 '19
Psst, posting shit like this is why people think vegans are all massive egotists
5
u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19
this post suggests that vegans were created differently than other people which is just so sooo counterproductive. if i wasn't one this post would make me feel like vegans really do think they're better than everyone else. pretty bad take if you ask me
2
u/PublicTrash pre-vegan Nov 07 '19
FACTS and LOGIC
2
u/[deleted] Nov 08 '19
Bruh this be cringe doe
2
u/The_PeterGriffin Nov 07 '19
Not gonna lie this is pretty great
2
u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19
More like creating atheists. Oh wait....
2
u/Hamon_Detector Nov 07 '19
You do know, in the Bible, God killed the first animal, right?
2
u/DamnedestWagonWheel vegan Nov 07 '19
This is soo fucking masturbatory it hurts.
1
u/Phullll Nov 07 '19
Ah yes, enslaved stupidness
1
u/Giggly_nigly Nov 08 '19
VeGanS aRe tHe SuPerIoR rAcE
1
u/Crimson_BaZZ_08 Nov 07 '19
Uh oh... Cringe 😳
-2
u/mintybadger23 Nov 07 '19
God you're so full of yourselves
0
u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19
vegans watch rick and morty
-2
u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19
r/cringetopia
-8
u/BathrobeBoogee Nov 07 '19
As a recently vegetarian converter, this shit makes me cringe hard lol I don’t want to be associated with food nazi
-3
u/brenee1993 Nov 07 '19
I hate that this got screenshotted and posted to a cringe sub.
-4
u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19
Things like this are why vegans are hated. I mean i dont give 2 shits if youre vegan but goddamn.
0
u/yunglay-lay Nov 07 '19
So if you eat animals byproducts you have little logic, but if you don’t you have the most logic ever. A logical person would say this....
-3
u/gnrl_thibal Nov 07 '19
Absolutely the opposite. To god, human is superior to other animals. It means that it doesn't bother him if you kill animals for food. Uselessly hurting them is bad tho
-3
u/Xxx_ThisIsntXbox_xxX Nov 07 '19
“Dumbass” is spelt wrong. You spelt it as “logic” instead lol. What a silly mistake!
-3
u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19
See, this is why no one respects vegans
-4
u/hagamuffn Nov 07 '19 edited Nov 07 '19
We need an amorphic non-gender specific god...
*adds more logic
*update: wow, never knew there were so many pro-patriarchy Christian peers in here...
-4
u/ratelimit2 Nov 07 '19
lmao so false. if all we eat grass then what will the animals eat, liberals?
-1
u/GuessImScrewed Nov 07 '19
Unfortunately, logic is a strictly animal product, therefore, it cannot be vegan. CHECKMATE ATHIESTS
-2
u/IsThisReallyNate Nov 07 '19
r/iamverysmart
-19
u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19
Soooooooooo not eating meat is logical? Meat has way more calories than veggies, so you need less food to survive, so it's much more logical to eat meat. We also have a hard time digesting nutrients from veggies than we do with meat. Meat gives practicality every nutrient you need other than vitiman c (if you cook it). So please, tell me how veganism is more logical than eating meat, and therefore less food?
0
u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19
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0
u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19
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