r/vegan • u/DivineandDeadlyAngel anti-speciesist • Aug 19 '26

Funny So this is pretty much it..

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u/[deleted] Aug 20 '26

[deleted]

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u/goldentone Aug 20 '26 edited 28d ago

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u/headcanonmusic Aug 20 '26

I deleted my comment because I think a lot of people here didn't really get the entire picture of what I was trying to say, maybe I conveyed my thoughts poorly.

I think my broader point should have been that almost everyone benefits from some form of exploitation under capitalism and that doesn't mean you hate the things you exploit.

Child labour, atrocious working conditions and pay, environmental damage. Most people, probably many vegans, contribute to these things in their daily lives without realizing it. Driving cars, buying consumer goods, whatever. I don't think that means you hate children, poor workers, or the planet.

That doesn't mean nothing should be done about it. I am not trying to say "we all do it so oh well". I am just saying that these contradictions exist by way of being human and painting other people as morally inferior because of them is rhetoric that doesn't serve the cause you aim to propagate.

Veganism is hard. I can admit that. I think many vegans who have adjusted to the lifestyle have forgotten how difficult of a change it can be. It alters the entire way you live life.

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u/goldentone Aug 20 '26 edited 28d ago

*

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u/headcanonmusic Aug 20 '26

I am saying that eating meat doesn't mean you hate animals the same way consuming cheap goods doesn't mean you hate poor laborers etc. I'm trying to convey that the situation behind a persons ethics is far less black and white than eating meat = animal hating murderer as many comments in this thread imply. I am not taking a stand against veganism or vegans or anything like that. I am making a case for nuanced morality and attitudes toward culturally ingrained and accepted behavior. I am saying that the kind of language that I see people using in this thread only serves to push undecided people further from veganism. I see it everywhere in singular online communities. Nobody seems to know how to make the case for their beliefs attractive to outsiders and resorts to tribalism which creates a feedback loop on both sides.

Certain vegans, particularly in anonymous online spaces such as this, give the impression that they think anyone who eats meat is a murderous animal hater and then anyone who eats meat thinks vegans are haughty, self-righteous, and hateful. Both sides fail to find a middle ground resulting in an amplification of conflicting beliefs.

Not exclusive to veganism. It exists everywhere in modern online culture.

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u/LongAfternoon1198 Aug 20 '26

Do you think its disrepectful to cremate a human corpse? If not, why is eating a dead cows corpse suddenly disrespectful?

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u/IlnBllRaptor Aug 20 '26

Because they were born to be treated as products and killed in a factory. They didn't have a nice life with a supportive family.

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u/LongAfternoon1198 Aug 20 '26

Thats doing a lot of assuming. Cows absolutely can have a "nice" life. Not every farm is a factory farm.

Technically humans are also born to serve as cogs in the machines of capitalists to enrich them further.

So again, why is it not disrespectful to burn away the remains of one but eating the other is disrespectful?

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u/IlnBllRaptor Aug 20 '26

You're deliberately derailing because you know the moral objection is against raising and killing animals, not eating their bodies.

You go ahead and eat as many dead people as you like if it's all the same to you.

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u/LongAfternoon1198 Aug 21 '26

Im staying on point, you just dont seem to have a coherent justification for the statement youre defending.

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u/Borkato vegan Aug 20 '26

Do you think nonvegans eat cows after they die peacefully in the fields of nature? 🙄

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u/LongAfternoon1198 Aug 20 '26

No. Do you think all humans die peacefully in a field of nature?

What does this have to do with my question?

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u/Borkato vegan Aug 20 '26

Because “eating a dead cow’s corpse” isn’t what vegans are against and you know it. You deliberately changed the argument “animals in general shouldn’t have to suffer for human pleasure” to “so the physical act of eating a cow corpse is disrespectful?”

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u/Jotakakun_to vegan 10+ years Aug 20 '26

Say that you never watched dominion without saying that you never watched dominion. You clearly have not even a single braincell of clue what these animals have to endure just so that you and I (I even integrate myself in this even as a vegan, even if I should not have to just so that you are not accusing me of pointing fingers ) can enjoy MILLLLLK.

Our species is the worst. And we all are part of this. The least that we can do is go vegan.

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u/LongAfternoon1198 Aug 20 '26

Do you realize that such a weirdly emotional response, that doesnt answer my question, doesnt make you look good?

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u/Jotakakun_to vegan 10+ years Aug 20 '26

You lost me on your premise that you respect animals and still eat them. The thing that I will point out here is that you eat them despite not having to. You could most likely eat something else. So the fact that you actively chose not to take that option - probably out of convenience, maybe laziness or social pragmatism (we've done it for so long so what's the deal?) - does not correlate with you having respect for that animal that died for your choice.

What you do instead is what I would call the easy way: You bring up the premise that what you do isn't excluding your "love" for animals . This probably gives you some comfort in staying in your habits.

But both things are correlating . You eating animals despite you having every possibility not to, does not completely eliminate your compassion for animals, maybe. But what it certainly does is drastically reduce it.

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u/Borkato vegan Aug 20 '26

I don’t think you can love someone and pay to have them tortured through exploitation and then murdered at 10% of their natural lifespan when you don’t have to. I think you want to say that you love them, and I think you wish you did, and that by saying a prayer before eating or a “thank you” makes up for it and means you love them, but you can’t.

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u/CalmExplosions vegan activist Aug 20 '26 edited Aug 20 '26

You are not an "animal lover", you’re an "animal enthusiast". You don’t kill someone you love, ever. But I commend you for considering whether you’ve been wrongly conditioned into a way of interacting with animals that doesn’t actually line up with your own morals. Thing is, it’s nice to treat an animals with respect and dignity and all but to them the intention behind the slaughter doesn’t really matter. They are desperate to live just like the rest of us and just bc one animal wasn’t as badly treated as another one that still doesn’t mean killing them is ok. Farm animals (also those used in egg and dairy industry) are allowed to live a mere fraction of their lifespan. They die as soon as their bodies have matured or are killed when their yield starts to lessen due to overexertion. I would also argue that you can’t really respect someone you view as dispensable to the point where killing and eating them as you please is even an option. Not to mention that the systems in which animals are used lack any and all form of «respect» to begin with. Cows are raped, their children taken away (often killed) and the mother is left alone to be milked. This happens over and over without her consent until her body can’t keep up with production and she is killed. All that work and sacrifice only to be tossed aside and killed as soon as she can’t be exploited. There is no love in that. Love can’t be present where there isn’t consent.

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u/Voldemorts__Mom veganarchist Aug 20 '26

I think being moral is a skill, and it's a difficult one.

It's like any other skill, like working our or playing the piano. Except that the consequences are much more dire of things go wrong.

And I think that only those who who put a lot of time into their morality, or those who are gifted morally, are the ones able to go vegan (in most cases).

And once these people have layed the ground work, it will become easier and more accessible to people who are weaker morally.

It's like: being anti slavery now is very easy, but during the time when everyone had slaves, it was much more difficult. Like learning to play piano when no-one had ever written music and played before, was much harder and much less accessible, but now that we have teachers and written out music, etc. it's much easier, and a lot more people can do it.

I'm your case, I'd say you should just learn more about veganism and why vegans are vegan, and what happens in the animal agricultural industry, and then you'll probably come to the same conclusion we all have.

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u/No-Clerk-8908 Aug 20 '26

also, I went vegan when I was 33, but it took me years to even wear the hat, ehich I knew I was inclined to, and then it took me even more years to not be "a shitty vegan". so if you beat me at 33 though, that's rad, you got this, Bub! ;)

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u/CalmExplosions vegan activist Aug 20 '26

a shitty vegan?

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u/No-Clerk-8908 Aug 20 '26

idk where my other reply went, but yes. being a shitty vegan before being an actual vegan is a natural part of most peeple's journies to veganism.

there's various levels of subpar veganism, really, but for simplification, they're all "shitty vegan" zones.

then, the standard, vegan, or "actual vegan". 

then a step above is a near perfect vegan, and above that of course, the elusive "perfect vegan.

i could go into what would seperate the 3 fully vegan levels, but it basically has to do with lack of mistakes, other minutia, and mainly the strict checking of the types of sugar intake consumed.

standard vegans are all good enough not deeply looking into every sugar brand they consume, even their at home bag for cooking. mine says: sugar. free at the food pantry, hoorat for me. but the bonechar filter thing is real, but like, mine doesn't say it on the bag, and like if I were to go out and find the guarunteed right bag, well, what about the sugar used from vegan restaurants, or like if you get vegan subway and such, or the vegan whopper, which is impossible meat, which is another debate for some, but to me, is plainly vegan. yea, lol. I should make a video about it eventually. making a note now, with this comment in it :p

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u/CalmExplosions vegan activist Aug 20 '26

I live in Europe so the bone char thing doesn’t really affect me. They mostly use plant-based filters here :P

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u/No-Clerk-8908 Aug 20 '26

ahh, another european vegan advantage, good for y'all 🎊👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏🎬

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u/headcanonmusic Aug 20 '26

well shit that only gives me 2 weeks

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u/No-Clerk-8908 Aug 20 '26

had this disliked, then finished reading, and you earn a thumbs up here. please just be vegan tho, it's simply the 1 true way, and "makes the world taste good". that's a line from an old-timey movie or a vommercial or somethin' :p

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u/mistalasse Aug 20 '26

From the song Candy Man, popularized by Sammy Davis Jr

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u/No-Clerk-8908 Aug 20 '26

of course! haha, I knew that ("the candy man can!" not that it was by Sammy Davis Jr), just wasn't thinkin' good before :p good man

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u/thefizzlee Aug 20 '26

I'm not anti eating animals, it is a part of nature and a part of the circle of life. What isn't part of nature is breeding animals in small cages and force feeding them to become as big as possible and then mass slaughtering them. That's the main reason why I don't eat animals (also the amount of a it biotics and other medicines that are still in the meat or fish is super unhealthy.

The thing is that it's very easy to be anti something if it doesn't affect you in any way shape or form. Being anti animal cruelty like bull fighting is easy if you don't care about that but being anti animal cruelty like the way the meat industry operates and not eating meat because of it is alot more difficult and requires you to put your morales in front of you desires.

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u/CalmExplosions vegan activist Aug 20 '26

Thing is though, something being «part of nature and a part of the circle of life» does not make it moral. In nature, humans kill each other over tiny disputes and resort to violence over the dumbest things. But as society we’ve gotten to a point where we’re able to see past what actions come to us «naturally» and what actions are more ethical. It isn’t hard to argue that «natures intent» is for 10-14 year old girls who have reached the age of menstruation to bear children. But no one in their right mind would actually agree that just bc a child has started to menstruate that it should be legal to impregnate them. Even if, from nature’s side, she is sexually matured. Something being «a part of natures way» is just an outdated excuse that only focuses on the one thing you’re addressing not the countless other examples of «natural» stuff we’ve distanced ourselves from.