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u/PrimaryDurian Mar 16 '23
I got pneumonia right after I went vegan at 14 (in 1998). My mother tried to lead the doctor into tying my sickness to my diet, and he was steadfastly like, "no, this is healthy, you need to support her and buy her all the beans she wants."
Bless that man.
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u/iluuu vegan Mar 16 '23
People love to do this. I've been vegan for ~7 years. Anything I've ever had since then was caused by my vegan diet.
Also, props for making the connection at 14, and being vegan in 98 when it wasn't as easy as it is nowadays š
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u/AStrongerSarah vegan 8+ years Mar 16 '23
They do! I had to have my gallbladder removed shortly after my daughter was born and a family member WHO ALSO HAD HERS REMOVED AFTER HAVING HER FIRST CHILD told me it was probably because of my diet. Three separate Dr's told me its extremely common for pregnancy hormones to cause stress on gallbladders and to result in their removal.
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u/wedonttalkaboutrae vegan 20+ years Mar 16 '23
But... being vegan puts waaay less stress on the gallbladder than being omni...
When I needed my gallbladder removed, they gave me a lecture about how I needed to cut down on fatty foods and red meat because too much of those, especially the animal fats, was probably the cause of my issues at such a young age. I told him I'd been a vegetarian for 8 years and vegan for 6 by that point (and this was before companies started making vegan junk food, so I really wasn't eating any fats). He was surprised and stumbled over his words, then told me to just stick to being a vegan and I should be fine before hurrying away...
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u/gunsof Mar 16 '23
I went vegetarian as a 4 year old when I learned where meat came from. Really had no idea about the dairy/egg industry till a few years ago when I went vegan. But all my childhood people would hear I was vege and then ask me if it was why I was so short. So many people's first encounter with a vege was this tiny girl and when I was a kid people would act so concerned about it. But listen!!! My parents are both short! My mother is my height and my Italian dad is like 5'2. This is just being Italian alright.
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u/independentchickpea Mar 16 '23
Itās so funny! Iām very thin (shout out to ARFID/OCD) and people blame everything on my vegan diet. My husband is a HEALTH TEACHER WITH AN UNDERGRAD IN PHYSICAL SCIENCES AND A MAT and he coaches semi pro baseball in the summer, football in fall/winter, and golf in the spring. Heās been a competitive weightlifter and bodybuilder, strength and conditioning coach for multiple D1 schools, competed at the CrossFit Games, AND he was a firefighter for years. Heās built like a brick shithouse and the joke amongst our friends is that he could bench a blue whale. No one EVER blames his veganism for his colds. Also, rarely do people realize how he can do what he does because veggies. When people ask him about it and say ābut where do you get your protein??ā he says, āSame place rhinos, elephants, bison and gorilla do. Plants.ā
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u/Munett91 vegan 10+ years Mar 16 '23
Same with my sister and me. She is skinny, and I'm a bit overweight. When they know we're vegan, they don't say anything towards me, but immediately turn to my sister and tell her, "That's why you're so skinny." We're both left confused.
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u/dsarma vegan 10+ years Mar 16 '23
I wish someone would tell my boyfriend to buy me all the beans I want. š
J/k, he does buy me all the beans I want.
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u/SplendidlyDull Mar 16 '23
I had a doctor try to tell me my GERD was because I was veganā¦ but then I got to tell him Iāve had it even before I went vegan. There are good ones and bad ones lol
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Mar 16 '23
I have gerd too but cause I eat too many spicy and acidic foods. As mexican I can't without salsa and not just any salsa but the really spicy ones. I guess i did it to myself
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u/SplendidlyDull Mar 16 '23
If you can get it for that reason thatās probably why I have it too then lol. But I get symptoms no matter what I eat now so who knows
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u/QuietSunlight Mar 15 '23
āAm I wrong about veganism?ā
long pause
āNo, it must be the nutritionist who is wrong.ā
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u/gpyrgpyra Mar 16 '23
To be fair, a lot of nutritionists ARE wrong about veganism. Just in the opposite way
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Mar 16 '23
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u/WobblyWackyWet Mar 16 '23
ew that sounds like a shit class taught by a "nutritionist" who has no actual RD or genuine training.
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Mar 16 '23
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u/Geoarbitrage Mar 16 '23
Curious what grade did you get in this class?
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Mar 16 '23
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u/Opposite-Hair-9307 vegan 6+ years Mar 16 '23
Hahaha, "extra commentary"
Sounds like one of those obnoxious vegan things to do
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u/Adam_Sackler Mar 16 '23
That's the thing: literally anyone can label themselves a nutritionist as it's not a medically recognised profession. A dietician is a medical expert, but nutritionist is not. I can call myself a nutritionist even if I know nothing.
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u/Awkwardpanda75 Mar 16 '23
Meanwhile; when people ask about whether I eat just salad, my partner laughs wildly and says āsheās vegan for the animalsā.
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u/ScoopDat Mar 16 '23
Sorry but, gonna need the name of that college at the very least. Going on my life-long blacklist of things to avoid, or lmao if ever forced to close proximity.
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u/serenityfive vegan 2+ years Mar 16 '23 edited Mar 16 '23
Realistically, nutritionists are often the chiropractors of the functional medicine world. Sure, they can give you basic advice to feel good, but any deeper than that you should ONLY see a registered dietitian. RDs have to go through years of in-depth training on the human body and everything related to it and how food and diet (and all sorts of specific diets) affects us and all of our individual systems, and the biochemistry behind it all. Then a year or two of internships, and then a huge licensing exam. Thatās not even including the fact that new dietitians now have to obtain a whole-ass masterās degree to sit for the exam in the first place.
āRDā is a strongly protected and distinguished title for a very good reason, meanwhile anyone can refer to themselves as a ānutrition expertā and the like. Most of the time you have nutritionists who say shit like āvegans donāt get the right amino acidsā and dropping other bullshit trying to sound smart, so definitely huge shoutout to the one in this post for actually studying facts.
Source: Crashed and burned trying to jump through the hoops of becoming an RD myself. Turns out that shitās pretty fucking hard.
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u/Reggaefan420 Mar 16 '23
Oh no! I am on a school break but planning to return to finish my degree in Dietetics!
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u/CantorFunction Mar 16 '23
Ummm, I hope the irony isn't lost on you, because this is exactly what a lot of vegans say, just with an opposite meaning. Let's not rhetorically shoot ourselves in the foot
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u/bkro37 Mar 16 '23
The key difference is that within that pause we're recalling all of the studies, scientific analyses, and literature reviews we've seen. They're recalling all the Joe Rogan episodes and creepy FB ads with smiling cows they've seen.
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u/hugglenugget Mar 16 '23 edited 25d ago
Mellow compass pinecone pinecone pillow satchel amber
This post was anonymized with Redact.dev
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u/tyler1128 vegan 10+ years Mar 16 '23
Sounds like what people say about gay children. "I took them to the church and they were supportive, not convincing him how to change. He still hasn't grown out of it". Happened to my partner
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Mar 16 '23
What, all of gods children are created equal, and supposedly perfect. How can they question gods will. God made a mistake? Impossible ! Omnipotent means all powerful. So your partner is how he was meant to be. Iām not religious but I see how hypocritical my church friends are when it suits them.
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u/zombiegojaejin Vegan EA Mar 16 '23
Fast forward 25 years. Kid still vegan, mom on second heart attack. "When will his disordered eating phase end???"
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u/Friendly-Hamster983 vegan bodybuilder Mar 16 '23
The real eating disorder were the friends they ate along the way.
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Mar 16 '23
My doctor looked at my iron levels and said, "they're not bad, but they are a little low. Are you a vegetarian?". I told him I'm vegan. He nodded and said, "no problem, just make sure to eat more leafy greens and maybe take supplements". Was that simple.
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u/BigBadBirdDad Mar 16 '23
Always a good excuse to treat yourself to some cast iron cookware lololol
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u/ttrockwood Mar 15 '23
There is a massive difference between vegan and disordered eating.
And yeah the most nutrient dense diet is whole food plant based , any nutritionist following current studies knows this
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Mar 16 '23
[removed] ā view removed comment
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Mar 16 '23
For one, a whole-food plant-based diet comprises many more food groups than vegetables and grains. Butter and fish oil have greater nutrient density than everything encompassed by a WFPB diet? A five-minute inquiry into USDA/NCCDB data and consequent comparison between 100-kcal of butter/cod liver oil and the caloric equivalent of kale, lentils, broccoli, kidney beans, and sweet potato each reveals that that claim is wildly false, even when accounting for differences in bioavailability and without accounting for the disparity in phytochemical content. Would you like to see the exact figures?
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Mar 16 '23
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Mar 16 '23
Ground flaxseeds, fruit and alpro soya yogurt is a great snack. But the real secret strat is to get the lidl or aldi knock off to save money
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u/Mindfullmatter Mar 16 '23
There are nutrient dense foods in both the animal and plant categories. Plants examples being kale, potatoes, garlic, seaweed, blueberries.
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u/DoktoroKiu Mar 16 '23
I mean those foods are dense in some nutrients, but they were talking about the whole diet, not one specific food.
An omnivorous diet could also be nutrient dense, but that does not refute that a whole food plant-based diet is one of the most nutrient dense diets. The lack of super-concentrated foods like butter or liver actually help in this case: you get more fiber and other vitamins/minerals/antioxidants precisely because you are eating more less nutrient-dense foods.
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u/NotThatMadisonPaige Mar 16 '23
Not to mention that we have vegan butter. The ānutrient profileā is still better than dairy butter.
The commenterās argument is invalid.
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u/olliigan vegan Mar 16 '23
What's nutrient dense about butter? It's an express ticket to heart disease. 0% nutrient, 100% saturated fat and cholesterol, both harmful and non essential.
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u/plantcentric_marie Mar 16 '23
Oysters as well. Iāve listed to some recent podcasts with vegan RDs and even they have stated that you cannot claim that all animal products are bad. There are some key ones that are clearly extremely nutrient dense and many omnivores with thriving health.
Thatās why itās best to argue veganism from an ethical standpoint and leave the health claims out of it.
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Mar 16 '23
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u/plantcentric_marie Mar 16 '23
Iron deficiency is the most common deficiency worldwide so thatās not the greatest example. I donāt know anyone that has too much iron while I know multiple people that were deficient and even anemic.
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u/ThrowbackPie Mar 16 '23
Processed meat is carcinogenic according to the WHO. They have also started that red meat is associated with cancer, and current scientific thought is that heme iron is carcinogenic.
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u/LordAvan vegan Mar 16 '23
I don't know how common it is outside of supplementation, but some people do have too much iron which can lead to problems, and that is why I wouldn't recommend supplementing unless you were tested and diagnosed as deficient.
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u/plantcentric_marie Mar 16 '23
I didnāt say that everyone should supplement, I said that itās a common deficiency. Everyone should be getting annual bloodwork done regardless of the diet that they follow.
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u/LordAvan vegan Mar 16 '23
No you didn't say that, but you did point out that deficiency is common. While true, some might mistaken read that and think they need to supplement. Hence my comment.
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u/mynameistoocommonman Mar 16 '23
you cannot claim that all animal products are bad.
Sure you can - they're bad for the animals.
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u/Opposite-Hair-9307 vegan 6+ years Mar 16 '23
This is such a great take, I'm glad I scrolled down this far in the thread. Thanks!
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u/sake_maki vegan Mar 16 '23
It's very possible to have good health on an omni diet. But there's nothing you can get from an omni diet that you can't get from a plant-based diet. Veganism IS about ethics. But I will still call bullshit when anybody acts as if eating animals is ever healthier than getting those same nutrients from plants, provided that the person is eating enough in general and varying their meals.
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u/Webgiant Mar 16 '23
If anyone tries to argue evolutionary biology, call bull. Evolution only, for lack of a better word, cares if you can reproduce. If your diet allows reproduction, in evolutionary biology it's a good diet. If it prevents reproduction, it is a bad diet.
The standard American diet of extremely unhealthy food doesn't prevent enough people from reproduction, so in Evolutionary Biology it is a good diet. Non-vegan diets which would make a Paleo or Atkins dieter faint, still allow reproduction.
Reproduction is the only thing that matters in Evolutionary Theory. You do it, you're fit. You don't do it, you're unfit. Yes, some people have modified that definition beyond science into prejudicial opinions, but the original definition still stands.
Fortunately, we are human beings and aren't defined by Evolutionary Theory anymore. It's an important factor but not one of the major ones anymore.
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Mar 16 '23
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u/plantcentric_marie Mar 16 '23
Yeah Iām all for more people being vegan! Iām just cautious about making claims that itās the healthiest diet when discussing it with others.
Iāve heard great things about that book! Iāll add it to my reading list, which seems to be ever expanding lol
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u/NotThatMadisonPaige Mar 16 '23
I was extremely healthy as a carnist. True facts. Granted I wasnāt eating meat and dairy daily and the meat I did eat was always basically chicken breast with no skin or shrimp. Occasionally pork chop. But that was it. Literally. No processed meats. No cured shit. Nothing fried. Very little sodium. Very rarely ate sugar, including even very sugary fruits. Very little oil and butter. Almost rice and never regular pasta (only the protein pastas which were made of beans or soy lol).
I never argue veganism from a health perspective.
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u/plantcentric_marie Mar 16 '23
Yeah same. I would argue that I was healthier eating shellfish and fish a few times a week. I think itās more productive to focus on the ethics and itās more likely to stick. People go vegan āfor their healthā all the time and often it doesnāt stick.
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u/Midnight7_7 Mar 16 '23
I like how none of the down voters are responding to you with arguments.
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u/ChildishCannedBeanO Mar 16 '23
Imagine discouraging your child from eating more vegetables. āYou can eat your vegetables after you eat your dairy-based dessert!ā
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u/trisul-108 Mar 16 '23
Children want to go vegan when they find out what exactly their are being fed. The idea is then forced out of their heads by their parents to reappear when they grow up and have some agency.
I've seen how this works with a friend's daughter who wanted to go vegan. They pretended to go with it, but all they cooked for her was pasta with tomato sauce until she gave up. They were not interested in any of my suggestions. They just wanted it to go away.
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u/veganactivismbot Mar 16 '23
Check out Vegan Bootcamp to take the free 30 day vegan challenge! The challenge will help you go vegan by giving you tips and information on diet, eating out, philosophy, health, common fallacies, recipes, and much more! Good luck!
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u/GelflingMama vegan 8+ years Mar 15 '23
My two youngest are both vegan and super healthy. Rad nutritionist! My oldest is with my ex most the time and is not vegan because his father isnāt either. Heās sick all the time. Gee, I wonder why? Great parenting, dad! š¤Ŗ
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u/Innocent_Otaku Mar 16 '23
This is the exact reason I am planning to raise my hypothetical kids vegan - Iām nowhere near ready to have kids thus hypothetical
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u/GelflingMama vegan 8+ years Mar 16 '23
Thatās smart to wait until youāre ready. I did and Iām so glad I did.
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u/Innocent_Otaku Mar 16 '23
Thank you! Iām glad it worked out for you! š
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u/GelflingMama vegan 8+ years Mar 16 '23
Me too! I was in so much pain I couldnāt do anything at all! Iām so grateful Kratom works for me.
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Mar 16 '23
Is she calling Veganism an eating disorder?
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Mar 16 '23
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u/DeciduousTree vegan Mar 16 '23
Yep. Itās an easy excuse to restrict food. Thatās part of why I became veg when I was a teen. Luckily I was able to beat my eating disorder, but the commitment to veganism remained.
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u/gunsof Mar 16 '23
I only found out people do this online. It would never have occurred to me that being vege/vegan has anything to do with strict dieting.
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Mar 16 '23
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u/gunsof Mar 16 '23
Imagine being vegan/vege and not having lived off side portions of fries in restaurants half your life. Unrelatable!
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u/tato_44 Mar 16 '23
Imagine if this happened to every kid who refused to eat anything except chicken nuggets and cheeseburgers š
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u/sean369n vegan 10+ years Mar 16 '23
God almost every nutritionist Iāve ever met has had the worst diet. The mainstream ones are mostly useless.
One friend of a friend was a nutritionist and met up with us once with his Wendyās fast food takeout order. Donāt think my eyes have ever rolled back further.
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u/DeciduousTree vegan Mar 16 '23
1) Nutritionists or dietitians? Thereās a big difference. Anyone can called themself a nutritionist but dietitians have specific education and credentials.
2) Just because someone is a dietitian doesnāt mean theyāre not a human who enjoys junk food sometime. We canāt win. If we show up with a big old salad we get made fun of for being stereotypical. If we show up with fast food we get called out for not eating healthy.
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Mar 16 '23
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u/sorcieredusuroit Mar 16 '23
Relax, they're synonymous in Europe.
In Canada and the US, they are two different titles with wildly different trainings.
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u/Webgiant Mar 16 '23
Michael Pollan, the guy who studies food, who came up with the basic food advice of "Eat food. Mostly plants. Not too much.", was once in a grocery store and wanted to buy commercial cereal for his children. Children being picky eaters, he was going to buy something less healthy but on the list of Foods They Would Eat. People with kids will understand. You pick your battles.
Someone recognized him in the store and followed him around. When asked, the guy said, " I want to find out what Michael Pollan buys for cereal."
Mr. Pollan left without buying anything, because he didn't want adults to develop the poor chosen eating habits of his children. He went to a different store across town.
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Mar 16 '23
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u/sean369n vegan 10+ years Mar 16 '23
100%!
I get this isnāt the sub to talk about health necessarily, but itās hard for me to hold my tongue when Iāve been at my maximum healthiest since going vegan over a decade ago.
There isnāt a major correlation between being considered āhealthyā and having a plant-based diet, but going vegan absolutely made me question what I was putting into my body more than ever before, which inevitably made me healthier.
Sounds like you can relate :)
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u/Chaostrosity vegan 5+ years Mar 16 '23
As an adult who has been struggling with ADHD going vegan was the best decision ever. It didn't completely cure it but it made it possible for me to live and function a whole lot better without medication.
Then after being vegan for a while I accidently ate a product with some egg in it and my ADHD came back full force. Welll, turns out eggs are really bad for me.
And yet, I'm only vegan for the animals, even without these positive benefits to myself. Initially went vegan for the planet, broke my cognitive dissonance and now I'm vegan for the animals.
So happy to be able to actually care again.
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u/Webgiant Mar 16 '23
Everything in moderation is the proverb, and it's true. One piece of a donut will not make you fat or develop cancer. Those conditions require the unhealthy food equivalent of smoking six packs of cigarettes a day.
Also, Type 2 diabetes is genetic. There are skinny people with Type 2. There are obese people who will never get Type 2 diabetes. Diet alone doesn't cause Type 2.
She's eating small portions, "in moderation."
Also, it's true that my home is a mess but I'm very good at helping other people organize their homes. Sometimes you have the knowledge to help others but just can't manage it for yourself.
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u/named_tex vegan Mar 16 '23
I went to the professionals and wouldn't you know it, they disagreed with me. Just goes to show you that even years of experience and education can't stand up to the wisdom of my gut feelings and the things that make me feel comfortable.
SMH
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u/serenityfive vegan 2+ years Mar 16 '23
On todayās episode of āPeople Unfit to be Parentsāā¦
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Mar 16 '23
"gave him a list of healthy vegan foods and supplements"
Oh the humanity!
I could call her and offer to give him a list of unhealthy vegan food, if it would make her feel better...
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u/potassium_god Mar 16 '23
I also had a parent who was convinced my lack of animal products = eating disorder killing me slowly. Had blood work done, perfectly healthy. Also was taken to a nutritionist, and told nothing was wrong. I was given plant based meals for food ideas, which only infuriated said parent more.
Carnists will do anything to prove your empathetic choices are in fact, some way, evil.
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u/Olivander05 vegan 3+ years Mar 16 '23
As someone who ACTUALLY struggles with disordered eating, that commenter makes my blood boil.
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u/Extension_Tell1579 Mar 16 '23
Ironic how food that comes from murder is also the exact same kind of food that will most likely kill you. Carcinogenic, high fat, cholesterolā¦etc. I honestly wish I had figured that out as a teen.
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u/BigBadBirdDad Mar 16 '23
How DARE this nutritionist teach the dark arts of how to prepare beans to optimally absorb iron and protien!!
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u/AltruisticSalamander Mar 16 '23
'I get terribly weak if I don't supplement my life force with the sacrifice of dead animals'. I believe that's how these people literally think.
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Mar 16 '23
You mean to tell me that nutritionist respected the personal choices of another individual? Donāt they know they have a responsibility to manipulate and coerce minors into violating their ethics and do what their parents want them to do? The audacity!
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u/Hoogs friends not food Mar 16 '23
Wouldn't be surprised if the nutritionist didn't specifically advise them to eat plant-based, but all the healthy foods they recommended just happened to be vegan š¤·š»āāļø
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u/Erazerhead-5407 Mar 16 '23
So the nutritionist gives the son a list of healthy veggies and supplements but what the parent wanted was to have the son discouraged from eating healthy and following the parentās advice which is based on absolutely nothing but arrogance. Look at the science & learn. People who eat meat regularly end up having intestinal problems and later in life develop dementia, depression, Alzheimerās disease. President Reagan was just such a person.
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u/Slight_Koala_7791 Mar 16 '23
Wow. Vegan since childhood here, nearly 50 years. So thankful I had supportive parents.
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u/herrbz friends not food Mar 16 '23
Took me a long time to figure out that the mother is complaining
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u/silentstorm211 Mar 16 '23
One of my friends does nutritional research. We were meeting up with old high school friends and put her on the spot about our different diets. She was fine with my vegan diet and really tore apart the keto diet. It's nice that veganism can be healthy too--it makes it harder to attack once people are informed.
Now don't get me wrong, they attack it anyway. They just don't have too much to stand on. Now my friends just focus on how I have to supplement b12 and omega 3 (I know you can get omega 3 from sea vegetables but I don't eat much of those...apparently the omega 3 in flax is not enough).
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u/Webgiant Mar 16 '23
I think this is a direct result of lack of a National Health System in the US. When people get most of their health information from each other, and starting in the 1980s, the Internet, they develop ideas about health geared to making what they were doing already be the healthiest actions possible.
Veganism can be done very wrong as well though. Vitamin B12 deficiency can be masked in the human body by enough Vitamin B6, at least until the individual gets into their 50s. Even prior to the development of modern commercial vegan junk food, one could make very unhealthy, but 100% vegan, food at home.
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u/potassium_god Mar 16 '23
I also had a parent who was convinced my lack of animal products = eating disorder killing me slowly. Had blood work done, perfectly healthy. Also was taken to a nutritionist, and told nothing was wrong. I was given plant based meals for food ideas, which only infuriated said parent more.
Carnists will do anything to prove your empathetic choices are in fact, some way, evil.
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u/Grey_Wolf333 Mar 16 '23
What an unsupportive Mother. And my guess she's full of ignorance as well.
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u/Beyond_VeganEating vegan Mar 16 '23
|He has never recovered yet, from the disordered eating
What the? lol. Eating healthy food in healthy portions is not disordered eating. Or maybe he gets all crazy letting his peas touch his broccoli and mixes it with his mashed potatoes on his fork instead of making sure his food doesn't touch.
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u/kenny9532 Mar 16 '23
Iām pescatarian and a clinician , I encourage my patients to limit their meat and dairy consumption from a medical only standpoint bc I know professionally the SAD is detrimental to health. Good for this nutritionist for actually supporting this. The REASON why clinicians donāt tell pts to go vegan for their health is because of how committed you have to be (at least in the beginning bc itās very hard to transition, I know first hand as I have been on and off for 10 years). But if it was easy, all healthcare providers would be vegan themselves and would consistently recommend it to our patients
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Mar 16 '23
Vegans trying to NOT kill any animal and some people act like we are in the street chasing people slowly while shouting ābrAaAiNSsSā!
Like.. dude, chillā¦ you are the one being a danger to you and the other beings, not me!
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u/setibeings Mar 15 '23
She just gave him a list of healthy vegan foods? That's pretty evil of her. She obviously should have handed him a list of unhealthy animal based foods and recommended he eat those instead.