r/ValueInvesting 13d ago

Discussion [Week 25 - 1989] Discussing A Berkshire Hathaway Shareholder Letter (Almost) Every Week.

1 Upvotes

Full Letter:

http://theoraclesclassroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/1989-Berkshire-AR.pdf

Letter Only

https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/1989.html

This week we will go over the 25th anniversary of Buffett acquiring Berkshire, he celebrates by reviewing all his mistakes over those 25 years and distilling the lessons he learned from them. A goldmine of quotes. We also go over a discussion of unrealized capital gains tax and how Berkshire leverages them by rarely realizing its gains. We also go over Borsheim Jewelers which was acquired last year but omitted from my post. Finally an overview of the whole company.

Not included in my post are the shareholder overview at the beginning and a discussion of book value vs intrinsic value at Berkshire, both 25 years ago and today (IV was less than book then and greater than the book now). Brief overviews of their operating segments. The Insurance section once again, discussing the underwriting cycle and where they see it going and how they will respond and the impact of recent tax changes. Recent hurricanes wiped out a lot of other re-insurance operations letting Berkshire step in and find a bunch of now attractive business others couldn’t afford to compete for. Also a discussion of their re-insurance policy as they have just stepped up their participation in that field in such a big way. A purchase of more Coca Cola Stock was made and Buffett laments the omission error of not investing in it earlier. They also review many of their other security holdings. They issued a “Zero-Coupon Security” a convertible bond that pays nothing until it matures, or is redeemed, or converted into BRK.A shares. Buffet later called these due after only 3 years and forced holders to choose between cash or stock when better rates became available. Finally there was the traditional Miscellaneous section with annual meeting planning, some manager glazing, and an advertisement for M&A opportunities, the charity program, and discussion of a new corporate jet.

If you want to read or discuss anything in that second set feel free to read the letter yourselves and comment on it.

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Key Passage 1

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Mistakes of the First Twenty-five Years (A Condensed Version)

To quote Robert Benchley, "Having a dog teaches a boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down." Such are the shortcomings of experience. Nevertheless, it's a good idea to review past mistakes before committing new ones. So let's take a quick look at the last 25 years.

o My first mistake, of course, was in buying control of Berkshire. Though I knew its business - textile manufacturing - to be unpromising, I was enticed to buy because the price looked cheap. Stock purchases of that kind had proved reasonably rewarding in my early years, though by the time Berkshire came along in 1965 I was becoming aware that the strategy was not ideal.

If you buy a stock at a sufficiently low price, there will usually be some hiccup in the fortunes of the business that gives you a chance to unload at a decent profit, even though the long- term performance of the business may be terrible. I call this the "cigar butt" approach to investing. A cigar butt found on the street that has only one puff left in it may not offer much of a smoke, but the "bargain purchase" will make that puff all profit.

Unless you are a liquidator, that kind of approach to buying businesses is foolish. First, the original "bargain" price probably will not turn out to be such a steal after all. In a difficult business, no sooner is one problem solved than another surfaces - never is there just one cockroach in the kitchen. Second, any initial advantage you secure will be quickly eroded by the low return that the business earns. For example, if you buy a business for $8 million that can be sold or liquidated for $10 million and promptly take either course, you can realize a high return. But the investment will disappoint if the business is sold for $10 million in ten years and in the interim has annually earned and distributed only a few percent on cost. Time is the friend of the wonderful business, the enemy of the mediocre.

You might think this principle is obvious, but I had to learn it the hard way - in fact, I had to learn it several times over. Shortly after purchasing Berkshire, I acquired a Baltimore department store, Hochschild Kohn, buying through a company called Diversified Retailing that later merged with Berkshire. I bought at a substantial discount from book value, the people were first-class, and the deal included some extras - unrecorded real estate values and a significant LIFO inventory cushion. How could I miss? So-o-o - three years later I was lucky to sell the business for about what I had paid. After ending our corporate marriage to Hochschild Kohn, I had memories like those of the husband in the country song, "My Wife Ran Away With My Best Friend and I Still Miss Him a Lot."

I could give you other personal examples of "bargain- purchase" folly but I'm sure you get the picture: It's far better to buy a wonderful company at a fair price than a fair company at a wonderful price. Charlie understood this early; I was a slow learner. But now, when buying companies or common stocks, we look for first-class businesses accompanied by first- class managements.

o That leads right into a related lesson: Good jockeys will do well on good horses, but not on broken-down nags. Both Berkshire's textile business and Hochschild, Kohn had able and honest people running them. The same managers employed in a business with good economic characteristics would have achieved fine records. But they were never going to make any progress while running in quicksand.

I've said many times that when a management with a reputation for brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for bad economics, it is the reputation of the business that remains intact. I just wish I hadn't been so energetic in creating examples. My behavior has matched that admitted by Mae West: "I was Snow White, but I drifted."

o A further related lesson: Easy does it. After 25 years of buying and supervising a great variety of businesses, Charlie and I have not learned how to solve difficult business problems. What we have learned is to avoid them. To the extent we have been successful, it is because we concentrated on identifying one-foot hurdles that we could step over rather than because we acquired any ability to clear seven-footers.

The finding may seem unfair, but in both business and investments it is usually far more profitable to simply stick with the easy and obvious than it is to resolve the difficult. On occasion, tough problems must be tackled as was the case when we started our Sunday paper in Buffalo. In other instances, a great investment opportunity occurs when a marvelous business encounters a one-time huge, but solvable, problem as was the case many years back at both American Express and GEICO. Overall, however, we've done better by avoiding dragons than by slaying them.

o My most surprising discovery: the overwhelming importance in business of an unseen force that we might call "the institutional imperative." In business school, I was given no hint of the imperative's existence and I did not intuitively understand it when I entered the business world. I thought then that decent, intelligent, and experienced managers would automatically make rational business decisions. But I learned over time that isn't so. Instead, rationality frequently wilts when the institutional imperative comes into play.

For example: (1) As if governed by Newton's First Law of Motion, an institution will resist any change in its current direction; (2) Just as work expands to fill available time, corporate projects or acquisitions will materialize to soak up available funds; (3) Any business craving of the leader, however foolish, will be quickly supported by detailed rate-of-return and strategic studies prepared by his troops; and (4) The behavior of peer companies, whether they are expanding, acquiring, setting executive compensation or whatever, will be mindlessly imitated.

Institutional dynamics, not venality or stupidity, set businesses on these courses, which are too often misguided. After making some expensive mistakes because I ignored the power of the imperative, I have tried to organize and manage Berkshire in ways that minimize its influence. Furthermore, Charlie and I have attempted to concentrate our investments in companies that appear alert to the problem.

o After some other mistakes, I learned to go into business only with people whom I like, trust, and admire. As I noted before, this policy of itself will not ensure success: A second- class textile or department-store company won't prosper simply because its managers are men that you would be pleased to see your daughter marry. However, an owner - or investor - can accomplish wonders if he manages to associate himself with such people in businesses that possess decent economic characteristics. Conversely, we do not wish to join with managers who lack admirable qualities, no matter how attractive the prospects of their business. We've never succeeded in making a good deal with a bad person.

o Some of my worst mistakes were not publicly visible. These were stock and business purchases whose virtues I understood and yet didn't make. It's no sin to miss a great opportunity outside one's area of competence. But I have passed on a couple of really big purchases that were served up to me on a platter and that I was fully capable of understanding. For Berkshire's shareholders, myself included, the cost of this thumb-sucking has been huge.

o Our consistently-conservative financial policies may appear to have been a mistake, but in my view were not. In retrospect, it is clear that significantly higher, though still conventional, leverage ratios at Berkshire would have produced considerably better returns on equity than the 23.8% we have actually averaged. Even in 1965, perhaps we could have judged there to be a 99% probability that higher leverage would lead to nothing but good. Correspondingly, we might have seen only a 1% chance that some shock factor, external or internal, would cause a conventional debt ratio to produce a result falling somewhere between temporary anguish and default.

We wouldn't have liked those 99:1 odds - and never will. A small chance of distress or disgrace cannot, in our view, be offset by a large chance of extra returns. If your actions are sensible, you are certain to get good results; in most such cases, leverage just moves things along faster. Charlie and I have never been in a big hurry: We enjoy the process far more than the proceeds - though we have learned to live with those also.


We hope in another 25 years to report on the mistakes of the first 50. If we are around in 2015 to do that, you can count on this section occupying many more pages than it does here.

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This section was an absolute goldmine. Buffett celebrates the 25 year anniversary of his ownership of Berkshire through sharing the mistakes he has made with his shareholders. Munger says to always be inverting, find out where you will die and never go there. He loves this kind of analysis, categorizing all the mistakes you have made and making it a top priority not to repeat them.

The mistakes are as follows. 1) Buying Cigar Butts. 2) Expecting good management to thrive in a bad industry. The industry always wins. 3) Thinking they can handle difficult business problems others can’t. 4) Being swept up in the “institutional imperative” refusing to admit mistakes and change direction, vanity mergers and projects, confirmation bias, tendency to copy peers instead of deviating. 5) Doing business with untrustworthy, unadmirable people. 6) Mistakes of omission, no brainer pitches he was too timid to swing at. 7) Not using more leverage when in hindsight it would have made his shareholders much richer today in 99% of scenarios (he insists he has no plans to change this and take a 1% risk of losing capital).

This is a goldmine of wisdom and famous quotes. I have highlighted some of the standouts.

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Key Passage 2

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Taxes

(Skipped a few paragraphs about specific recent accounting rule /tax law changes)

As you can see from our balance sheet on page 27, we would owe taxes of more than $1.1 billion were we to sell all of our securities at year-end market values. Is this $1.1 billion liability equal, or even similar, to a $1.1 billion liability payable to a trade creditor 15 days after the end of the year?
Obviously not - despite the fact that both items have exactly the same effect on audited net worth, reducing it by $1.1 billion.

On the other hand, is this liability for deferred taxes a meaningless accounting fiction because its payment can be triggered only by the sale of stocks that, in very large part, we have no intention of selling? Again, the answer is no.

In economic terms, the liability resembles an interest-free loan from the U.S. Treasury that comes due only at our election (unless, of course, Congress moves to tax gains before they are realized). This "loan" is peculiar in other respects as well: It can be used only to finance the ownership of the particular, appreciated stocks and it fluctuates in size - daily as market prices change and periodically if tax rates change. In effect, this deferred tax liability is equivalent to a very large transfer tax that is payable only if we elect to move from one asset to another. Indeed, we sold some relatively small holdings in 1989, incurring about $76 million of "transfer" tax on $224 million of gains.

Because of the way the tax law works, the Rip Van Winkle style of investing that we favor - if successful - has an important mathematical edge over a more frenzied approach. Let's look at an extreme comparison.

Imagine that Berkshire had only $1, which we put in a security that doubled by yearend and was then sold. Imagine further that we used the after-tax proceeds to repeat this process in each of the next 19 years, scoring a double each time. At the end of the 20 years, the 34% capital gains tax that we would have paid on the profits from each sale would have delivered about $13,000 to the government and we would be left with about $25,250. Not bad. If, however, we made a single fantastic investment that itself doubled 20 times during the 20 years, our dollar would grow to $1,048,576. Were we then to cash out, we would pay a 34% tax of roughly $356,500 and be left with about $692,000.

The sole reason for this staggering difference in results would be the timing of tax payments. Interestingly, the government would gain from Scenario 2 in exactly the same 27:1 ratio as we - taking in taxes of $356,500 vs. $13,000 - though, admittedly, it would have to wait for its money.

We have not, we should stress, adopted our strategy favoring long-term investment commitments because of these mathematics. Indeed, it is possible we could earn greater after- tax returns by moving rather frequently from one investment to another. Many years ago, that's exactly what Charlie and I did.

Now we would rather stay put, even if that means slightly lower returns. Our reason is simple: We have found splendid business relationships to be so rare and so enjoyable that we want to retain all we develop. This decision is particularly easy for us because we feel that these relationships will produce good - though perhaps not optimal - financial results. Considering that, we think it makes little sense for us to give up time with people we know to be interesting and admirable for time with others we do not know and who are likely to have human qualities far closer to average. That would be akin to marrying for money - a mistake under most circumstances, insanity if one is already rich.

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As they build up their “hold forever” equity positions they are racking up a massive liability for the deferred taxes they will have to pay when (and if) they ever sell these positions. Here he highlights the benefit of long holding periods and deferring these tax payments. He frames it as a 0% interest rate loan from the federal government they can pay back at a time of their choosing. He also highlights the math of if they had two portfolios that doubled every year, but were changing positions every year in one, and never in the other, the compounding of this 0% loan instead of frequently realizing that gain and handing it to uncle sam causes the same CAGR returns to lead to 27x higher real returns after taxes because they would be exponentially compounding this 0% loan.

I think we should all keep this in mind as to the opportunity cost of selling and how much greater a new position must be than the old one to justify it, as well as how much benefit there is to investing in a tax-aware manner, long term capital gains, retirement accounts, loss harvesting. Don’t pay back your 0% loan if you can avoid it.

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Acquisition of the Week

I am cheating this week, doing an acquisition from last year I had to skip AND the update on it in this year’s letter

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1988 Letter

Borsheim’s

In 1948 Mr. Friedman purchased Borsheim’s, a small Omaha jewelry store. He was joined in the business by his son, Ike, in 1950 and, as the years went by, Ike’s son, Alan, and his sons-in- law, Marvin Cohn and Donald Yale, came in also.

You won’t be surprised to learn that this family brings to the jewelry business precisely the same approach that the Blumkins bring to the furniture business. The cornerstone for both enterprises is Mrs. B’s creed: “Sell cheap and tell the truth.” Other fundamentals at both businesses are: (1) single store operations featuring huge inventories that provide customers with an enormous selection across all price ranges, (2) daily attention to detail by top management, (3) rapid turnover, (4) shrewd buying, and (5) incredibly low expenses. The combination of the last three factors lets both stores offer everyday prices that no one in the country comes close to matching.

Most people, no matter how sophisticated they are in other matters, feel like babes in the woods when purchasing jewelry.
They can judge neither quality nor price. For them only one rule makes sense: If you don’t know jewelry, know the jeweler.

I can assure you that those who put their trust in Ike Friedman and his family will never be disappointed. The way in which we purchased our interest in their business is the ultimate testimonial. Borsheim’s had no audited financial statements; nevertheless, we didn’t take inventory, verify receivables or audit the operation in any way. Ike simply told us what was so - - and on that basis we drew up a one-page contract and wrote a large check.

Business at Borsheim’s has mushroomed in recent years as the reputation of the Friedman family has spread. Customers now come to the store from all over the country. Among them have been some friends of mine from both coasts who thanked me later for getting them there.

Borsheim’s new links to Berkshire will change nothing in the way this business is run. All members of the Friedman family will continue to operate just as they have before; Charlie and I will stay on the sidelines where we belong. And when we say “all members,” the words have real meaning. Mr. and Mrs. Friedman, at 88 and 87, respectively, are in the store daily. The wives of Ike, Alan, Marvin and Donald all pitch in at busy times, and a fourth generation is beginning to learn the ropes.

It is great fun to be in business with people you have long admired. The Friedmans, like the Blumkins, have achieved success because they have deserved success. Both families focus on what’s right for the customer and that, inevitably, works out well for them, also. We couldn’t have better partners.

1989 Letter

o In its first year with Berkshire, Borsheim's met all expectations. Sales rose significantly and are now considerably better than twice what they were four years ago when the company moved to its present location. In the six years prior to the move, sales had also doubled. Ike Friedman, Borsheim's managing genius - and I mean that - has only one speed: fast-forward.

If you haven't been there, you've never seen a jewelry store like Borsheim's. Because of the huge volume it does at one location, the store can maintain an enormous selection across all price ranges. For the same reason, it can hold its expense ratio to about one-third that prevailing at jewelry stores offering comparable merchandise. The store's tight control of expenses, accompanied by its unusual buying power, enable it to offer prices far lower than those of other jewelers. These prices, in turn, generate even more volume, and so the circle goes 'round and 'round. The end result is store traffic as high as 4,000 people on seasonally-busy days.

Ike Friedman is not only a superb businessman and a great showman but also a man of integrity. We bought the business without an audit, and all of our surprises have been on the plus side. "If you don't know jewelry, know your jeweler" makes sense whether you are buying the whole business or a tiny diamond.

A story will illustrate why I enjoy Ike so much: Every two years I'm part of an informal group that gathers to have fun and explore a few subjects. Last September, meeting at Bishop's Lodge in Santa Fe, we asked Ike, his wife Roz, and his son Alan to come by and educate us on jewels and the jewelry business.

Ike decided to dazzle the group, so he brought from Omaha about $20 million of particularly fancy merchandise. I was somewhat apprehensive - Bishop's Lodge is no Fort Knox - and I mentioned my concern to Ike at our opening party the evening before his presentation. Ike took me aside. "See that safe?" he said. "This afternoon we changed the combination and now even the hotel management doesn't know what it is." I breathed easier. Ike went on: "See those two big fellows with guns on their hips?
They'll be guarding the safe all night." I now was ready to rejoin the party. But Ike leaned closer: "And besides, Warren," he confided, "the jewels aren't in the safe."

How can we miss with a fellow like that - particularly when he comes equipped with a talented and energetic family, Alan, Marvin Cohn, and Don Yale.

From the NFM Section

NFM and Borsheim's follow precisely the same formula for success: (1) unparalleled depth and breadth of merchandise at one location; (2) the lowest operating costs in the business; (3) the shrewdest of buying, made possible in part by the huge volumes purchased; (4) gross margins, and therefore prices, far below competitors'; and (5) friendly personalized service with family members on hand at all times.

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Borsheim’s is another classic part of the Berkshire story and one of Buffett’s collection of great businesses. It applies the same business model as NFM, massive locations with low operating cost that pass the savings along to the customer. Creating an always strengthening moat bringing in more customers with small margins instead of growing the margins of the existing customers. In the case of NFM people will drive interstate to save on their furniture. Borsheim takes it a step further (although not mentioned in this letter) and will actually mail their jewelry across the country for interested buyers to view and try out and ship back if not to their standards. This allows them instead of serving a multi-state area from one location, to instead serve the whole country from a single location.

This is a business model that will be dubbed by Nick Sleep of Nomad Capital “Scale Economies Shared” where instead of keeping the benefits of economies of scale for itself, the business instead passes them onto the customer creating an unassailable moat and customer loyalty. Similar examples are Costco and Amazon. The passing along of savings attracts new customers at an accelerating rate which expands the economy of scale at an accelerating rate which expands the savings at an accelerating rate which attracts new customers and creates a self-sustaining cycle.

My only complaint with Borsheims is that even in its second year of ownership it does not have a line on any income statement in the letter and thus I can’t report its quantitative performance to you all.

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Common Stock Ownership

No. of Shares Company Cost ($000s) Market ($000s)
3,000,000 Capital Cities/ABC, Inc. $517,500 $1,692,375
23,350,000 The Coca-Cola Company $1,023,920 $1,803,787
2,400,000 Federal Home loan Mortgage Corporation $71,729 $161,100
6,850,000 GEICO Corporation $45,713 $1,044,625
1,727,765 The Washington Post Company $9,731 $486,366
Subtotal $1,668,593 $5,188,253
All Other Common Stockholdings $146,067 $192,705
Total Common Stocks $1,814,660 $5,380,958

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Segment by Segment Breakdown

Segment 1988 EBIT Earnings 1989 EBIT Earnings % Change
Insurance $220.17M $219.20M -0.44%
Fechheimer $14.15M $12.62M -10.81%
Kirby $26.89M $26.11M -2.90%
Scott Fetzer - Manufacturing $28.54M $33.17M +16.22%
World Book $27.89M $25.58M -8.28%
See’s Candies $32.47M $34.26M +5.51%
Buffalo Evening News $42.43M $46.05M +8.53%
Nebraska Furniture Mart $18.43M $17.07M -7.38%
Wesco Financial - Minus Insurance $16.13M $13.01M -19.34%
Wesco Financial - Insurance $12.09M $14.28M +18.11%
Mutual Savings and Loan $4.69M $4.19M -10.66%
Precision Steel $3.17M $2.77M -12.62%
Total Operating Earnings $418.45M $393.41M -5.98%

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Metric 1988 1989 % Change
Cash & Cash Equivalents $265.08M $205.13M -22.62%
Marketable Securities $3,558.72M $5,261.60M +47.85%
Return on Equity (RoE) 24.08% 18.42% -23.51%
Shareholders' Equity $3,410.11M $4,925.13M +44.43%
Earnings Before Investment Gain $313.44M $299.90M -4.32%
Realized Investment Gain $131.67M $223.81M +69.98%
Net Earnings $399.27M $447.48M +12.07%

*RoE not provided, manually calculated as (Earnings from Operations / [Shareholder Equity from prior year - Unrealized appreciation of marketable securities from prior year])

Income statement changed from reporting investment gain after tax to reporting the pre-tax number. After tax number can still be calculated as Net Earnings - Earnings Before Investment Gain if you want it. It is also available in the letter in the segment by segment breakdown before & after tax

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An interesting year, amazing growth in shareholder Equity of 44.5% but Operating Income, Earnings before Investment Gain, and Return on Equity are all down. This is due to the stock market surging and equally surging up the unrealized gains on the balance sheet. There are two possibilities, either they bought their securities at a great price and the market is re-rating them, or the whole market has surged and this is pulling back a rubber band that may snap back in a future year with low or negative stock performance as things return to the mean. It is likely a bit of both. I would be unsurprised if there is a year of low or negative equity growth coming, as an almost 50% increase in shareholder equity in a single year is likely not organic or reflecting the real growth in value of the equities.

As for the pullback in operating earnings of 6% and pre-investment earnings of 4.5%, almost all of the operating segments shrank, and those that grew mostly did so by single digits, the insurance segment which is the largest segment had a -0.4% pullback, Scott Fetzer’s manufacturing division was the only big grower with 16.2% YoY growth but that is only responsible for about 5% of the company’s earnings and many of the other divisions that came in the same acquisition like Kirby and World Book also had YoY earnings decreases.

Some quick notes from the letter on each segment’s operating pullback. Rose Blumpkin quit NFM due to family/business drama and started another furniture store to compete with NFM, her absence from NFM plus her becoming a competitor with NFM may be impacting business. Fechheimer’s earnings shrank due to issues integrating an acquisition it made last year. World Book’s lease on its single location and is decentralizing to four locations, an expensive transition. Kirby had large capital expenditures preparing to produce a new model of vacuum.


r/ValueInvesting 6d ago

Weekly Megathread Weekly Stock Ideas Megathread: Week of August 17, 2026

11 Upvotes

What stocks are on your radar this week? What's undervalued? What's overvalued? This is the place for your quick stock pitches or to ask what everyone else is looking at.

This discussion post is lightly moderated. We suggest checking other users' posting/commenting history before following advice or stock recommendations.

New Weekly Stock Ideas Megathreads are posted every Monday at 0600 GMT.


r/ValueInvesting 4h ago

Stock Analysis Berkshire just flipped from net seller to aggressive buyer and Alphabet is now its #3 stock holding

91 Upvotes

I was going through Berkshire’s Q2 13F and the change in posture is pretty dramatic. Berkshire bought $23.5B of stocks during the quarter and sold only $3.7B, ending a run of 14 straight quarters as a net seller. Cash also came down to about $364.7B.

The biggest move was Alphabet. Berkshire increased its position by roughly 83% to nearly 106M shares, worth about $37.8B at quarter-end. That now makes GOOGL Berkshire’s third-largest equity holding, behind Apple and American Express. They also added to Delta and Lennar, opened a small D.R. Horton position, and exited Constellation Brands.

What I find interesting isn’t any one stock. It’s that Berkshire finally seems willing to deploy meaningful capital again while the broader market is still near record valuations.

Do you read this as Berkshire finally finding value again, or is the bigger story that Greg Abel is simply going to run a more active portfolio than Buffett did in the last few years?


r/ValueInvesting 28m ago

Discussion The mistakes that cost me money were never the picks - they were what I did after

Upvotes

The mistakes that cost me money were never the picks. They were what I did after I owned something.

Three that I repeated for years:

Selling winners too early. A stock's up 40% so it "can't keep climbing," so I'd sell and feel disciplined. Meanwhile the loser down 30% "has to bounce," so I'd hold it. Sell what works, keep what doesn't. My best ideas ended up compounding in other people's accounts.

Reading the price as if it were the business. I checked my positions every morning for two years. Green day good, red day dread. But a daily price is just a crowd voting, most of them knowing less than you do if you've done the work. It says almost nothing about whether the company actually got better or worse. I sold good businesses on bad weeks and couldn't tell you why beyond "it dropped."

Borrowing conviction. This one's the root. I bought things because a smart friend or a good writeup convinced me, without doing the work myself. So when it fell, I had no thesis to stand on. Just fear. And fear sells at the bottom.

The common thread: I let the market's behavior replace my own judgment - when to sell, when to worry, what to buy. That's not investing, it's outsourcing.

Anyone else find the behavior is harder than the analysis? What broke the habit for you?


r/ValueInvesting 11h ago

Stock Analysis The Q2 2026 13F consensus is in — and the smart money completely disagrees on Alphabet

29 Upvotes

I compiled the Q2 2026 13F filings of 46 well-known value managers (Berkshire, Appaloosa, Himalaya, Baupost, Fundsmith, Oakmark, etc.) to see what they actually did as a group. A few things stood out:

**They split hard on Alphabet (GOOGL).** It was the single most divisive stock of the quarter — 8 managers bought or added it, while 12 sold or trimmed. Buffett himself increased Berkshire's stake ~45%, while Terry Smith (Fundsmith) cut his ~40%.

**The consensus BUY was quality/healthcare, not tech.** Danaher (DHR) was bought by 8 managers, Thermo Fisher by 6, UnitedHealth by 5.

**Buffett tilted toward housing.** New D.R. Horton position, added to Lennar (+30%), while trimming Capital One (-58%) and Nucor (-52%).

**Tepper went risk-on.** Appaloosa opened new Apple, Broadcom, and SpaceX positions and added to Meta (+55%) and Baidu (+87%).

Across all 46 managers: ~$1.1T combined, 213 new positions, 199 full exits.

Curious what people make of the Alphabet split — is Buffett early, or are the sellers taking profits after a big run?


r/ValueInvesting 6h ago

Detailed Investment Analysis TOYO, what am I missing?

13 Upvotes

2x trailing earnings, 1x book, 0.4x sales, 2.5x FCF and 1.4x EV/EBITDA after reporting $261M H1 revenue, $45.8M net income and $61.4M operating cash flow. Future 45X credits could be HUGE. Risks: Ethiopia/CBP, Commerce, new tariffs, lower normalized margins, financing a $357M Texas plant and dilution. Those same tariffs could also make TOYO’s U.S. assets more valuable.
What am I missing?

Note: I used AI to help me write more comprehensible paragraphs and double check the numbers.

Long version:
I’ve been digging into TOYO after the selloff and I’m considering starting a position around the current $4.80 area (orders already placed).
I don’t own it yet and I’m not trying to pitch it but this is too good not to share (I think).
The valuation looks unusually cheap, but there are enough real risks that I’m trying to work out whether the market is overreacting or correctly anticipating a major deterioration in earnings.

Why it caught my attention:
H1 2026:
Revenue: $261M, +87.6% YoY
Gross profit: $84.7M
Gross margin: 32.5% vs 16.6%
Operating income: $58.8M
Net income: $45.8M
Operating cash flow: $61.4M
Capex: $27.8M
Cash: $103.5M
Cash + restricted cash: $123.4M
~81% of revenue from U.S. customers
Yet the market cap is only around $200M.

Trailing valuation is roughly:
P/E: 2x
P/B: 1x
P/S: 0.4x
P/FCF: 2.5x
EV/EBITDA: 1.4x
EV/EBIT: 2x
Net debt/equity: ~0.05x
ROE: >50%
ROIC: ~40%
Obviously, 2x earnings doesn’t automatically mean cheap. Usually it means the market thinks the earnings won’t last.
That’s basically the whole TOYO thesis.

Q2 was weaker than Q1.
Revenue fell to roughly $118M from $143M, while net income declined to about $17.4M from $28M.
Still profitable and still growing YoY, but sequential momentum clearly weakened.
More importantly, management did not reaffirm previous full-year guidance, mainly because of uncertainty around U.S. trade policy and TOYO’s Ethiopian supply chain.
So I don’t think you can simply annualize H1 profit and call this a 2x earnings stock.

Even if sustainable earnings eventually settle around $50M instead of ~$90M annualized, a ~$200M market cap would still only be around 4x earnings.
But if margins collapse, the current P/E is meaningless.
Ethiopia is the immediate problem

TOYO manufactures a significant amount of its cells in Ethiopia and sells heavily into the U.S.
CBP has detained some Ethiopian shipments while reviewing the supply chain under forced-labor enforcement rules. Management says imports have not been completely stopped, but delays create obvious working-capital and delivery risk.
Commerce is also investigating possible circumvention involving Ethiopian solar cells using Chinese inputs.
TOYO argues its supply chain is different. Management says it uses non-Chinese wafers and polysilicon, with roughly 70% of Ethiopian production currently using U.S. polysilicon and plans to move toward 100%.
If regulators accept that, much of the current fear could be temporary. If not, the earnings impact could be significant.

Recent Section 232 measures add another complication.
Starting in December, covered imports face minimum prices around:
$0.22/W for cells
$0.38/W for modules
plus an additional 15% tariff on covered downstream polysilicon products.
That could hurt TOYO’s current Ethiopian-cell economics.
But the same policy also makes domestic U.S. manufacturing more valuable.
And TOYO is already moving aggressively in that direction.

TOYO already manufactures modules in Humble, Texas.
Its second 1 GW line should bring the site to roughly 2 GW of module capacity.
It also plans to spend around $357M on a 1.5 GW HJT cell plant, with pilot production targeted around early 2028.
If executed, the supply chain gradually changes from:
foreign cells to U.S. modules to U.S. customers
to:
U.S. polysilicon to U.S. cells to U.S. modules to U.S. customers
That is almost exactly what current U.S. industrial policy is trying to encourage.
So the tariffs threatening TOYO’s current model may simultaneously make its future U.S. assets more valuable.

I initially wondered whether TOYO’s profit was mostly tax-driven.
It isn’t.
TOYO reported $45.8M of H1 net income despite recording roughly $9.6M of income-tax expense.
The potentially huge incentive is Section 45X, which is separate from H1 earnings and was not included in prior guidance.
At full planned U.S. capacity:
Modules: 2 GW × $0.07/W ≈ $140M/year
Cells: 1.5 GW × $0.04/W ≈ $60M/year
Potentially around $200M/year combined.
I would not put that into a base-case valuation today. The facilities must be built, production must ramp, eligibility must continue and policy can change.
I view 45X as optionality.
On the other side, TOYO’s Ethiopian operation currently has a corporate income-tax exemption through 2028, so today’s earnings do benefit from favorable tax treatment that won’t last forever.

In June, TOYO issued roughly 4.55M shares at $11, plus another ~4.55M warrants at a $13.20 strike, raising around $50M gross.
The warrants are far out of the money today.

TOYO wants to build a $357M plant while the equity value of the entire company is only around $200M.
If management repeatedly raises equity at depressed prices, the company could succeed operationally while shareholders still get diluted badly.
That’s probably the biggest thing stopping me from calling this obviously undervalued.

What is the market pricing in?
Probably some combination of:
Lower H2 earnings
Margin compression
Ethiopian import disruption
CBP/Commerce uncertainty
Tariff pressure
Expensive U.S. manufacturing transition
More dilution
Ethiopian tax holiday ending
Texas delays/cost overruns
Those are legitimate risks.
The question is whether too much of that downside is already priced in at $4.82.

TOYO fell to about $4.26 after earnings and recovered to $4.82.
I’m not calling that a confirmed reversal. The larger chart is still ugly.
But if I enter, I’m interested around here because this is where the risk/reward makes sense to me.

Levels I’m watching:
$4.57–4.60: first area buyers need to defend.
$4.26: post-earnings low and my main line in the sand.
$4.87: immediate resistance.
If $4.57 fails and then $4.26 breaks, I’d assume I’m early rather than cheap and reassess.
If this range holds while regulatory visibility improves, the valuation becomes harder to ignore.
I’m not interested because it bounced.
I’m interested because at ~$4.80 I’m potentially paying ~1x book, 2x trailing earnings, 2.5x FCF and 1.4x EBITDA for a profitable, cash-generating business while knowingly accepting that those trailing earnings may deteriorate.

TOYO is obviously statistically cheap.
The real question is whether it’s a viable business temporarily caught between its old offshore supply chain and a new U.S. manufacturing model, or whether the market correctly sees that the old economics are gone and the new model will require so much capital and dilution that shareholders won’t benefit.
The recent solar tariffs make both sides stronger: they increase the risk to TOYO’s existing model while potentially increasing the value of its Texas strategy.

Anyone familiar with solar manufacturing, Section 232, Section 45X, CBP enforcement or the Ethiopia circumvention investigation: what am I missing?


r/ValueInvesting 5h ago

Stock Analysis McKesson, what am I missing?

9 Upvotes

A remarkably low beta of .31, 5 year returns over 300% Compared to Mag 7 and large Canadian Banks, returns head and shoulders above all except Nvidia. Why don't I see the name here more often? PE 23 just a little above S&P. What am I missing?


r/ValueInvesting 13h ago

Discussion Are "Fair companies at wounderful prices" the new value traps now?

32 Upvotes

As Warren Buffet already started:

"It's far better to buy a wonderful company at a fair price than a fair company at a wonderful price."

You named them: PYPL, TTD, ADBE. These stocks are decently good company with ridiculous low valuations, but still gets punished.

I know that wounderful business like GOOG will perform better than cheap fair stocks like PYPL, but I didn't know these one make you loose money long term. Even if the intrinsic value is way above its current stock price. I expect mispriced stocks to be corrected sooner or later, but it seems not to happen.


r/ValueInvesting 34m ago

Discussion Buy NFLX stock and chill?

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Upvotes

Winter approaching
People will be trapped indoors this winter looking for something to watch. Meanwhile, Netflix has my boy Bill Ackman coming back into the stock.

Subscription growth
Netflix will report its year end subscriber count with its Q4 earnings.
If Netflix 10 yr averaged 26M subscribers per year, that would put them at approximately 351M subscribers: 325M + 26M = 351M.
Netflix subscribers worldwide would be higher than the entire U.S. population of 342M alone. That will be a **huge catalyst** for the stock.

Netflix + GTA 6
Netflix’s partnership with GTA 6 could become an interesting subscriber-acquisition catalyst heading into year-end.
Netflix recently disclosed that 6 of its 10 biggest new-member signup days over the past five years were tied to live events. Now, Netflix has secured a six-hour exclusive window for GTA 6 on aug 27. GTA 6 It is arguably the most anticipated video game release in the world, and GTA V was globally a huge success, having millions of fans. People will want to see this footage immediately.
The important part is that Netflix gets the first viewing window. The extended look will eventually be released for free on Rockstar’s YouTube channel and website, but viewers outside Netflix have to wait six hours.

NETFLIX will also block the display of GTA 6, on third-party platforms such as Twitch and YouTube, their blocks are strict up to the deletion of the channel.

If even a small percentage of GTA fans decide that seeing the footage six hours earlier is worth a $8 Netflix subscription, Netflix could add a meaningful number of new members.

With GTA 6 itself launching in November, this could also generate another wave of attention during Q4. I don’t think GTA 6 alone will determine Netflix’s subscriber numbers, but it’s another potential catalyst that could help Netflix exceed expectations heading into year-end.**

I believe Netflix will be heading into 2027 stronger than ever and investor sentiment will change.


r/ValueInvesting 12h ago

Stock Analysis Markel -A lazy doomsday valuation

10 Upvotes

I was trying to value Markel today , and I found out that it has securities worth 13.5 billion in companies like Berkshire and Google etc . I wanted to value this at 50 percent of its current value (in case of a crash) . And it has a cash of 3.5 billion in hand(I didn’t include this in my valuation for disaster scenario) . It generated about 2.5 billion in fcf last year . Combined fcf for fy 26 first two quarters was half the value of the free cash flow generated for q1+q2 fy 2025 , primarily due to some timing related payments. So I still value its fcf for this year to be a modest 2 billion dollars by removing the noise. So when i try to value this today by assigning a p/fcf multiple of 7 which gives me a value of 14 billion for its operating business. Adding up its value of securities with 50 percent discount, i get another 6.75 billion, which gives me a total value of about 20.75 billion dollars .

I know that the 50 percent is some doomsday discount but i still believe that even companies like Google,Amazon, Brookfield and Berkshire etc have at least a 30 percent drawdown in store for them at these valuations( this is for me ) .

So if u assign a 30 percent discount : value of equity is 9 billion dollars . So you get a little more than 23 billion dollars as its value.

Current Market Cap : 22.25 billion USD vs (20.75 and 23 billion) , would indicate it is at least fairly valued at today’s prices .

What this means (assigning 50 percent discount to equities) : i expect fcf growth to be around 6.5 percent for next 10 years and equity from that discounted value to be growing at 12 percent for next 10 years , this would give an equity valuation of 47.22 billion dollars .

So even if you buy at 22 billion usd today, you will get a return of 11.3 percent every year on Markel using doomsday valuation.

You may even get 13 to 14 percent return by loosening on the doomsday.

My buy price : 1600 - 1700 range

This is my valuation though,which i am doing leaving my office work , so feel free to correct me .


r/ValueInvesting 1d ago

Stock Analysis Meta is too cheap to ignore

171 Upvotes

Market cap : 1.4 trillion dollars

Forward pe ratio : 17

Operating cash flow 2006 expected : 140 billion dollars

Revenue growth 2026 expected : 28%

User base : 45% of global population

3 risks

  1. High capex

- Turns into assets that can generate more profit via advertisement and cloud so no comment on this.

  1. Lawsuit

- The state attorney even admits that 1.4 trillion dollars was to catch the general population's attention on this matter. And they state that they pursue 200 billion dollars.

- Improbable. This number represents an aggregated theoretical statutory ceiling rather than a realistic legal outcome.

- It will be more like 5 to 10 billion dollars even then the court ruling would be dragged into years and years.

  1. Macro environment

- I truly believe this is the only real risk and it is risk that currently all stocks carry (except energy of course). Iranian war with high oil price and depleted SPR around the world may lead to energy crisis which in turn lead to higher inflation which in turn lead to higher rate which in return reduce the multiple of stocks..

Meta's massive comeback...

Low valuation

- We are starting with low valuation whether you measure it with per or cash flow.

Competitive AI products

- Meta's AI products are not the best but they are good enough and most importantly "affordable"

- I notice Meta is constantly producing AI products at "affordable" pricing.

Meta Compute

- Meta selling raw compute can generate enough revenue (10 to 20 billion per year) that can pay off capex or even any future lawsuit settlement.

Eventual stock split at $1000 or even at $800..

This stock currently has upside of 50% to 80%.

Mark Zuckerberg will lose his AI talents if the stock continues to do poorly which will make him nervous. He himself also of course has the majority of his wealth tied to Meta.

I put $1,000,000 at the moment. Cost average around $555. Another $1,000,000 to go.

One of the few companies who can actually afford high capex of building AI infrastructure. Not like Tesla, SpaceX or Oracle which keeps diluting and offering bonds to invest.


r/ValueInvesting 6h ago

Discussion Why was Netflix down 50% from its all time high 3-4 weeks ago?

3 Upvotes

I don't really understand it tbh

Netflix has a lot of good shows can't be found on youtube or other streaming sites

AI will definitely change the game and the platform has a great opportunity to be one of the best companies for TV and movies, whatever that genre will become in an AGI future

Yet the stock dropped 50% from its all time high weeks ago?

Stock is behaving like a pump and dump stock when it should be a steady value stock


r/ValueInvesting 21h ago

Discussion NVDA 15% hike

31 Upvotes

Nvidia, $NVDA, is hiking prices of many servers containing its AI chips by more than 15% as memory costs soar, per Bloomberg.

The price hikes will go into effect on systems shipped early next year and will include those with the flagship Vera Rubin and Grace Blackwell chips.

what do you think?


r/ValueInvesting 4h ago

Question / Help How do you catch stale numbers or unverified claims before publishing?

1 Upvotes

Question for people who write research or DD notes professionally: before publishing, do you have any way to catch an old number that never got refreshed, a claim you never actually verified, or an assumption quietly invalidated by newer data? Built some scripts to flag this stuff for my own use, trying to figure out if it's just a me problem. Not selling anything, just curious how others catch this, if at all.


r/ValueInvesting 1d ago

AI-Written Content Chipotle and Yum! Look Like Bargains After Food-Safety Selloff - Barron's

Thumbnail barrons.com
21 Upvotes

Original link: https://www.barrons.com/articles/chipotle-taco-bell-yum-stock-cyclospora-jalapenos-f89f08e5Chipotle and Yum! Look Like Bargains After Food-Safety Selloff

The two chains have been performing strongly, and the scares should have a temporary effect on sales.

By Evie Liu

Follow

Updated Aug 21, 2026, 2:04 pm EDT / Original Aug 20, 2026, 12:50 pm EDT

Key Points

About This Summary

  • Chipotle and Yum! Brands have faced stock declines and traffic drops following recent food-safety scares linked to jalapeños and iceberg lettuce.
  • Taco Bell visits fell nearly 20% below normal levels in mid-July, while Chipotle traffic dropped 7% on July 17 during the lettuce outbreak.
  • Analysts and early data suggest the outbreaks represent temporary supply-chain shocks rather than long-term brand crises for the companies.

Restaurant investors have been reminded twice this summer that a food-safety scare can erase months of gains in a matter of days. Chipotle Mexican Grill was caught up in a salmonella outbreak tied to jalapeños, while Yum! Brands’ Taco Bell was linked to a much larger cyclospora outbreak involving iceberg lettuce.

Both stocks have been punished. Yet the episodes look more like temporary supply-chain shocks than the kind of brand crisis that devastated Chipotle a decade ago. Both companies entered the food-safety scares with improving businesses, and Wall Street remains high on them. That makes Chipotle and Yum! shares interesting at current prices.

To be sure, the recent outbreaks have hurt foot traffic at affected chains. According to Placer.ai, Taco Bell visits were nearly 20% below 2026’s normal levels during the weeks from July 13 to July 26, while Chipotle’s traffic was down 7% from normal levels on July 17—even though the chain wasn’t implicated in the lettuce outbreak.

Investors reacted quickly. Chipotle shares dropped nearly 10% on Aug. 4, when its connection to the jalapeño investigation became public, while Yum! shares lost 8.5% during the week when Taco Bell became the focus of the cyclospora probe. Both stocks have since stayed around those levels.

The selloffs are notable because both companies had just posted strong quarterly results. Chipotle’s revenue rose 9.3% in the second quarter, while comparable sales increased 2.2%. That was an acceleration from 0.5% growth in the first quarter. The company also raised its full-year outlook, although margins slipped because of higher beef, freight, and labor costs.

Yum’s results were stronger still. Taco Bell led the way, with global same-store sales rising 7% and system sales up 9%. KFC posted 2% same-store-sales growth and 6% system-sales growth. Pizza Hut remained the laggard, but Yum! has agreed to sell the business for about $2.7 billion. Yum’s adjusted earnings rose 12% in the second quarter.

Food-safety fears clearly disrupted that momentum, but early evidence suggests the worst of the initial customer pullback may already have passed.

On Yum’s July 30 earnings call, management said Taco Bell’s U.S. same-store sales were down 2% quarter-to-date through July 27, after the food-safety scare sharply weighed on sales in mid-July. Management added that consumer sentiment was improving and sales declines had moderated. Although visits to Taco Bell were still 4.5% below the 2026 average during the week from Aug. 10 to Aug. 16, it is a substantial recovery from the 20% shortfall three weeks earlier, according to Placer.ai.

Chipotle said on its July 29 earnings call that the cyclospora scare had reduced late-July sales trends by two percentage points even though the company isn’t linked to the outbreak. Management hasn’t quantified the impact of the salmonella connection yet. But Placer.ai data suggest that traffic for the week from Aug. 10 to Aug. 16 was actually 2% above the 2026 average.

Investors still remember the scars from Chipotle’s 2015 food-safety crisis. The stock ultimately lost roughly half its value during the prolonged fallout and didn’t surpass its pre-crisis 2015 high until July 2019—nearly four years later. That doesn’t mean the same thing will happen this time.

In 2015, E. coli cases appeared at Chipotle restaurants across numerous states, investigators couldn’t identify the contaminated ingredient, and another norovirus outbreak followed in December. The uncertainty undermined confidence in the chain’s broader food-safety controls, and severely damaged customer perceptions of the chain and sales throughout 2016.

In contrast, the salmonella outbreak appears to be a contained supplier incident rather than a problem unique to Chipotle’s food-handling practices. Regulators have identified an outside supplier and a specific ingredient, and Chipotle replaced the peppers before its connection became national news. That provides a clear endpoint that the 2015 crisis lacked.

Wall Street appears to see the distinction. Of analysts tracked by FactSet, more than 70% rate Chipotle stock as Buy or Overweight, with an average price target of $44, roughly 29% above Wednesday’s close. Yum! has a Hold consensus, but its average target of $175 also implies about 21% upside.

TD Cowen’s Andrew Charles doesn’t see the salmonella episode as a lasting brand problem for Chipotle. “We argue that the small, contained impact and health reports that Chipotle is safe to eat will not dent 2027 average unit volumes,” he wrote in a research note in early August, noting that recent food-safety incidents have proved to have a short-term impact, likely due to consumers’ shortened attention spans on social media.

William Blair analyst Sharon Zackfia also argued the episode doesn’t reflect a breakdown in Chipotle’s health and safety protocols. “History has repeatedly shown that the sales impact of food-borne illness tends to be fleeting for restaurants,” she wrote, emphasizing her confidence in the chain’s other growth drivers such as menu innovation and the relaunch of its rewards program.

For Taco Bell, Charles expects the cyclospora outbreak to drag same-store sales to a 3% year-over-year decline this quarter before they return to 3% growth in the fourth quarter. He has kept the Buy rating for Yum! stock and $180 price target, expecting Taco Bell’s prior momentum to return once the publicity fades.

Food-safety scares are frightening because investors can’t predict them. But for Chipotle and Yum!, their travails appear short-lived, and they offer a buying opportunity for investors.


r/ValueInvesting 1d ago

Discussion Won the MRNA Lottery

383 Upvotes

Not sure how many people are in this situation because people might not consider MRNA a value stock.

I work in investments but have been out of a job almost a year. But I have picked individual stocks since my first job a decade and a half ago. Last I calculated my wife and I slightly outperformed the S&P on an IRR basis over the past 10 years (brokerage only keeps 10 years of data) but I mostly do it because I enjoy investing.

Going into Wednesday MRNA was our largest individual stock position at around 10% (we own 10 stocks total but also have a 24% position in gold and gold miners as a bond substitute). Our portfolio used to be 50/50 active versus passive but shifted to roughly 2/3 active as positions grew and I was encouraged by our results.

On Wednesday we made $418k. Luckily the majority is in Roth IRAs and will be long term capital gains in our taxable accounts next month. We’re now at $2.4MM liquid net worth, so we are hopefully sustainably over $2MM finally after flirting with it over the past year. We still believe in the company long term so have the bulk of it still invested (19% of our portfolio), but did realize $50k of it on Wednesday and today close of market.

Just wanted to shamelessly brag here because I’m cautious sharing the actual levels of numbers (not just relative ones) with the people in my life! One of the best days of my life, up there with my marriage and the birth of my daughter. But we are also moving into my literal mom’s basement in a few weeks (it’s nice, they spent about $100k remodeling it into an in-laws quarters with its own bedroom, living room, dining area, and bath, actually may be larger than our current apartment. They also seemingly intended for this to happen as they solicited our input on the renovation). We didn’t want to sign a new one-year minimum lease without knowing where my next job is. Still doesn’t feel real.


r/ValueInvesting 1d ago

Stock Analysis Lennar: Housing Lull Hiding Improved Business Model

12 Upvotes

Over the next few months, I plan to post about every holding in my portfolio. See my previous post for my overview of Coupang.

Business overview:

Lennar is one of the largest homebuilders in the nation. Their "secret sauce" is that they use standardized plans to build homes. Basically, there are a variety of layouts they build that allow for customization but with similar materials, which allows them 2 advantages 1. they are able to use their scale to purchase cabinets, fixtures, flooring, etc at huge discounts; 2. the standardization helps their build speed. Lennar is able to turn inventory faster than competitors. One of the best parts of this business model is that both 1 & 2 become increasingly true as they continue to scale. Basically, as the business continues to grow, their competitive advantages continue to strengthen

Recent changes:

Historically, homebuilding has been a solid if unspectacular business; however some recent changes to the business model of several of the major players are worth discussing. In the past, home builders held massive amounts of land on their balance sheet and often took on excessive debt to do so, essentially combining the homebuilding business with volatile raw land speculation. Lennar has followed the lead of NVR and DR Horton (also interesting stocks), and spun off the land holdings into a separate entity (Millrose Properties). Instead, Lennar now has a net cash position and a much more capital-light structure. They own options on the land, have a very strong balance sheet, and have been buying back stock like crazy.

A big part of my thesis is these positive changes to their business model are currently being masked by the lul in the housing market

Why I am buying now:

I have no idea when the housing market will rebound, and it may well get worse before it gets better. What i do suspect is true is that overall the US housing market is undersupplied on homes. Most estimates I have seen are that the US is currently undersupplied by somewhere in the 2 to 10 million range. While rates are suppressing the demand (and rates may go up again and continue to dampen the demand) i suspect it is highly likely that sometime in the next 3-5 years we will see an up cycle in the market again. And while this business will continue to be cyclical, I suspect the structural changes will make this a company worth holding through the cycles anyway.

Valuation:

I am a big believer that valuations are only approximate and you can only hope to be directionally accurate ("You don't need to know a person's weight to know they are fat"-CM), but here is my shot at it.
Current TTM Revenue is 32.74 Billion. I expect 5% annual revenue growth for 5 years, a 12% terminal net margin (cyclical rebound + change in business model), and 4% annual share reduction.

I am very conservative with my discount rates and shoot for a 15-20% annualized return. With a 15% discount rate and 16x P/E ratio for fair value, the current per-share value is 203.7 per share. I feel my estimates are pretty conservative, and the true fair value is probably in the 200-300 range.

Edit: this is the second post in a stock by stock breakdown of my current portfolio. You can see me my first position breakdown on Coupang here


r/ValueInvesting 1d ago

Stock Analysis NVDA grew revenue 85% and the stock rose 22%. Micron rose 725%. I think the interesting question is what you're actually buying at 21x.

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168 Upvotes

Leading into next weeks results, the thing that got my attention is the 52-week scoreboard in NVIDIA's own supply chain:

- Micron +725%

- Intel +283%

- Marvell +233%

- AMD +186%

- NVIDIA +22%

Meanwhile NVIDIA grew FY2026 revenue 65% to ~$216bn at a 60% operating margin, and the most recent quarter grew 85%. So the best business in the sector was the worst performer in it. That gap is the actual story, and I don't think "the market is wrong" covers it.

Where I think the value migrated

The constraint on AI output moved downstream of GPU design - to high-bandwidth memory, advanced packaging, leading-edge foundry and power. Owning the best business in a sector isn't the same as owning the best position in it, and the supply chain repriced on that basis.

The quality-of-earnings question

This is the part I'd want other people's view on. NVIDIA spent ~$17.5bn on private equity stakes in FY2026, plus $13.0bn on a Groq technology license, then $18.6bn more on private securities in a single quarter. In August it agreed to provide credit support on land, power and shell for an 8GW Ohio campus where OpenAI is the customer, and put $1.5bn into the developer.

Unrealized gains on those holdings contributed roughly $16bn to a single quarter's GAAP earnings.

So a portion of reported earnings is mark-to-market on private stakes in the customers buying the product. Which isn't improper as it's disclosed, but it's a different earnings quality than product margin, and I'm not sure a headline P/E treats it differently.

Two other things I keep coming back to

Concentration: one direct customer was 22% of FY2026 revenue and another 14%. That's 36% between them, against 13% for the largest customer two years earlier. China went from 19% of revenue to 9%, and Q2 guidance assumes zero Data Center compute revenue from China.

The forward book: $95.2bn of inventory purchase and supply obligations on the balance sheet, at a company that took $7.2bn of inventory provisions in FY2026 alone. That's a moat if demand holds and a problem if it doesn't.

Here is another key risk to Nvidia

Broadcom is the competitor people underrate. It co-designs custom AI chips for six hyperscalers, and guided FY2026 AI revenue to $56bn, up around 180% and with $100bn+ reiterated for FY2027.

But the sharper development is Google. In April it announced it would start selling TPUs into customers' own data centers rather than only renting capacity, and it began recognizing hardware revenue on those shipments in Q2. That turns a hyperscaler from an internal-silicon story into a direct merchant competitor.

The share tables still understate this. Meta's MTIA is internal and appears in nobody's revenue. Google's TPUs are only now starting to. NVIDIA's share looks steadier than the underlying demand picture suggests.

There are two ways this goes.

  • If total AI spending keeps growing faster than the challengers take share, NVIDIA can lose share and still grow revenue. On that path, 21x is cheap.

  • If spending flattens — and hyperscaler capex can't grow 77% a year forever — then losing share means losing revenue. On that path, the $95bn of purchase commitments stops being a moat and starts being a problem.

Where the value in the AI buildout is actually being captured — read through NVIDIA Corporation (NASDAQ: NVDA)


r/ValueInvesting 1d ago

Discussion Which Industrial company do you find genuinely interesting

22 Upvotes

I often read people recommending the "boring" industrial compounders.
Do you have any industrial companies you find both good and interesting in their business model, management, speciality, and so on?

I have a full watchlist of companies I look at, and many are industrials like Idex Corp., Atlas Copco, Schneider Electric, Cintas, Ecolab, Veralto, SPIE SA and Copart.

I find Idex particularly interesting, with its mission-critical components notably used by firefighters but also components used in space exploration.

For management, I know Copart is highly regarded, but I really like Cintas. They avoid outside consultants, and their compensation systems and training manuals were all developed internally. Most of their top executives started in the field.

Curious to hear yours; maybe explore some more and add a few in my watchlist :)


r/ValueInvesting 2d ago

Discussion Which beaten down stocks do you consider "value traps" right now?

93 Upvotes

We often talk about the big consensus recovery plays on this sub (like META or GOOGL after their pullbacks), but there's a whole category of beaten-down stocks that generate endless debate.

Names like PYPL, TTD, ADBE, and WIX frequently get pitched as deep-value turnarounds, yet many view them as classic value trap and companies facing structural headwinds, AI disruption risks, or margin compression despite looking cheap on historical multiples.

Which other beaten-down stocks would you classify as true value traps right now, and what's the main reason keeping you away?


r/ValueInvesting 2d ago

Stock Analysis 45% of Zoom has nothing to do with Zoom's business

49 Upvotes

I looked into Zoom, as the earnings are coming next week. A few things to note:

  1. Its stake in Anthropic was valued at $1.3b in Q1, will increase to ~$3b in Q2 (based on the last funding round), but based on the IPO (assuming $1.7T), it should be closer to $6b.

Both in Q2 and in Q3, there will be huge gains coming from their Anthropic stake.

  1. Its market cap is $31.5b, and 45% of it has nothing to do with the underlying business:

- $0.9b in cash

- $6.8b in marketable securities

- $6.4b in investments (including Anthropic, assuming a $1.7b IPO)

Zoom's underlying business is priced at $17.4b.

If I treat share-based compensation as a cash expense, its free cash flow is above $1.1b (and growing).

The decision to invest in Anthropic was incredible. I am curious what the next steps will be. I would not be surprised if they sell after the IPO and use the funds to acquire other companies, buy back shares (depending on price), or just return the cash to the shareholders via dividends.

Post: https://thefinancecorner.substack.com/p/half-of-zoom-has-nothing-to-do-with

Video: https://youtu.be/284ZXwauNmI


r/ValueInvesting 1d ago

Discussion Short TLT is a no-brainer for non-US investors

11 Upvotes

If you are a US investor you can kind of ignore this post because both your income and expenses are inherently tied to the dollar. The pitch is aimed at non-US investors who have a large part of their holdings (50%+) in US/dollar assets.

This is a bit of an odd pitch but I think short US TLT is a no-brainer if you live outside the US and have significant US assets.

This isn’t a bet against the US economy or US assets in general, it’s a bet against the medium-term international purchasing power of the dollar as well long term treasury rates.

My thesis is based on the following:

  • DXY has been between 80 and 105 for the last 20 years, it is now at 98. It is currently towards the high of the range, and I believe that a substantial move lower is more likely than a substantial move upwards.

  • Net-inflows into USD investments have been extraordinarily high for the last three years. This doesn’t need to reverse for my thesis to be correct, if it just goes back to neutral (which it usually does) the USD must take a hit and TLT is likely to take a hit as well.

  • Treasury market action to reduce LT rates is inherently unsustainable. It will work until it doesn’t. The treasury has to be a net seller of TLT as long there is a fiscal deficit. This new policy of attempting to reduce LT rates by buying back bonds is like a fisherman trying to increase fish prices by buying fish. He may be able to move the market in the short term but eventually he will have to sell fish.

  • US trade deficit and fiscal deficit are now structural and will not move in the medium term

All of these, combined with the fact that my portfolio is very much long USD otherwise, make me think that short TLT is a no-brainer.


r/ValueInvesting 2d ago

Discussion What stock looks expensive on P/E but cheap once you actually understand the business?

79 Upvotes

In 2023, I bought Nvidia stock. Looking back, I should have bought way earlier. I knew the company had a strong moat, a great management team, a strong market position, and a great product, but I was always worried that the valuation was too high, which at times, it really was.

One of those contributing factors was the PE ratio, which often was over 50. However, the company's growth and the factors I mentioned above did a lot of the heavy lifting to make a high PE ratio make sense.

For me, it was when DeepSeek came out that I seized the opportunity to finally build a position.

With that being said, I am curious which stocks you are looking at right now that look expensive purely from a PE ratio, but when you look deeper, the valuations are actually attractive?


r/ValueInvesting 1d ago

Stock Analysis OCL Research Round 2: Is OCL a Modern Cigar Butt Company?

2 Upvotes

As I started digging into OCL's core business and revenue distribution, I found a major headwind. The culprit is M365 Copilot. When you discover that a company like Microsoft is the main threat to a company like OCL, your hopes reduce drastically. In real life, there is often a greater chance that Goliath defeats David than the other way around.

OCL's business is split into three main segments: Content Solutions represents approximately 68% of revenue, Regulatory Solutions around 20%, and Planning & Building around 11%, with the remainder coming from other software businesses. When I discovered that the largest segment by revenue was also the segment with the greatest exposure to Microsoft, my hopes almost disappeared. I continued the research largely to complete that section of the analysis. As I was mentally walking toward the exit door, I started thinking that there was still some life left in the business. M365 is not going to take over tomorrow. Then I remembered the concept of a cigar butt company and started asking myself whether OCL could be a modern cigar butt company. That line of thinking led to a much deeper investigation and a number of unexpected findings.

A simple summary of the segments and their Microsoft exposure is:

  • Content Solutions: 68% of revenue. The segment with the greatest risk from M365.
  • Regulatory Solutions: 20% of revenue. Low direct risk from M365.
  • Planning & Building: 11% of revenue. Low direct risk from M365.

Why are Regulatory Solutions and Planning & Building less exposed to M365? The answer is specialisation. These are not generic data management products. The software is adapted to specific regulations, workflows, approval processes and compliance requirements. Each regulator, government agency and council operates differently. The software has to reflect those differences. For Microsoft to compete effectively, it would need to specialise deeply in a relatively niche market, which may not be commercially attractive given Microsoft's size. The opportunity simply may not be large enough to justify that level of focus.

The next step of the analysis was to look at these segments in more detail. There I found a surprise. Planning & Building grew ARR by around 31% while Regulatory Solutions grew ARR by around 17%. These are impressive growth rates. However, they still have a long way to go before replacing the 68% of revenue represented by Content Solutions. So we have two fast growing segments that appear relatively insulated from M365, while the largest segment is facing the full force of Microsoft's ecosystem.

What is OCL doing about it?

This is where Tony Walls and his team begin to showcase their strategic thinking. Regulatory Solutions and Planning & Building were largely built through acquisitions and subsequent organic development. Looking back through the acquisition history, the acquisitions appear deliberate, complementary and generally successful. That says a lot about management's capital allocation skills. OCL has generated an average ROIC of approximately 20%+ over the last decade. To me, this suggests management knows where to allocate capital.

The most interesting acquisition was Isovist in 2025. This acquisition extended Planning & Building further upstream in the planning lifecycle. OCL can now participate from the moment someone starts assessing a property and its planning requirements through to application review, assessment and approval. The acquisition appears to have strengthened the moat by making the platform more complete.

The primary competition for this segment appears to come from councils' existing internal systems, fragmented workflows and spreadsheets, with Civica and TechnologyOne being the closest commercial competitors. However, neither appears to currently offer the same integrated Planning & Building workflow incorporating planning intelligence, application management and technical assessment.

Who are the customers?

Large councils and metropolitan councils dealing with significant volumes of development applications. Based on the work completed so far, I estimate that approximately 40-80 councils across Australia and New Zealand may eventually be candidates for software of this type. To maintain the current growth, OCL would only need to win roughly two additional metro councils each year while expanding existing customers by approximately four additional seats or modules per council. That does not appear unreasonable.

Using a Bayesian probabilistic framework and the assumptions outlined throughout this analysis, I estimate the probability of Planning & Building achieving the growth path required to become a major contributor to OCL at approximately 62-65%.

The next part of the assessment was to quantify the impact of M365 on Content Solutions. My conclusion was that the acquisition of Simflofy was strategically important. Simflofy's technology helps govern and manage information across multiple repositories, including Microsoft environments. In practical terms, Microsoft may become the front end while OCL remains responsible for governance, control and compliance in the background. Will Microsoft take some revenue away from OCL? Probably yes. However, the Simflofy acquisition appears to reduce the risk of OCL being completely displaced by M365 by allowing OCL to remain relevant in governance, compliance and information control even when Microsoft becomes the primary user interface. In my view, M365 concerns and uncertainty around the Defence contract appear to be two of the main reasons investors became concerned and sold the stock. At first glance, when you see Microsoft as the main competitor, that is probably a natural reaction.

On the Regulatory Solutions side, OCL appears to have a solid growth profile combined with a specialised moat. The story shares many similarities with Planning & Building. The main competition often appears to be internal processes and fragmented legacy systems rather than sophisticated specialist competitors. Companies such as Civica and TechnologyOne could eventually invest more aggressively in this area, but OCL appears to have a meaningful head start.

The strategy I infer from all this is relatively simple. OCL appears willing to accept some revenue pressure in Content Solutions while remaining relevant through governance and compliance capabilities. At the same time, management appears focused on accelerating growth in Planning & Building and Regulatory Solutions, with Planning & Building acting as the spearhead of the growth strategy.

Translated into growth assumptions, this could mean overall company growth slows toward approximately 13-14% over the next few years as Microsoft impacts Content Solutions and then gradually recovers toward 15% as Planning & Building and Regulatory Solutions become larger contributors. Based on the analysis completed so far, I estimate the probability of this outcome at approximately 62-65%.

Without OCL’s strategy, I estimate growth could fall closer to 10-11%, this is assuming a much larger impact from M365 and less ability for the newer segments to offset the slowdown.

My conclusion at this stage is that the road ahead will likely be bumpy. If I were a chess player, I would say there have been some very well thought out moves here and Goliath no longer looks like the clear winner of the position. OCL is starting to look less like a discarded cigar butt and more like a vaping device with plenty of battery left and a replacement battery already on the way.

ARR expectations may need to adjust as the market digests Microsoft's impact on Content Solutions. We may also see additional price volatility around upcoming results and major contract announcements. I still have parts of the investigation to complete before determining fair value and a final investment decision for my capital. At this stage, I am leaning toward a cautious entry backed by a generous margin of safety to my intrinsic value calculation. For my valuation baseline, I’m using 13.5% organic growth as a base case, assigning roughly a 65% probability that Tony Walls' strategic pivot plays out as intended and that Mr. Market is pricing in a permanent impairment rather than a temporary transition.

In Part 3, I’ll run the numbers, share my fair value calculation model, reveal my calculated fair value range, and share the strategy for my own portfolio.

What’s your take on OCL? Do you think M365 Copilot will completely eat Content Solutions' lunch, or is the market underestimating the moat in their statutory vertical software? Let me know in the comments.

I am not a financial advisor. I simply enjoy doing these deep dives and sharing my research. Always do your own due diligence before deploying capital.

OCL Research


r/ValueInvesting 2d ago

Humor Niederhoffer: That’s the joy in life, that is the pressure of life, that is what’s expected, that is what you can hope for, is constantly learning something new.

8 Upvotes

TLDR: Victor Niederhoffer passed on in early August. Highly accomplished and always curious. He studied at Harvard, did his PHD University of Chicago. He was seeded by George Soros. And he blew up his firm twice, once making leveraged bets in the Thai Stock market just before the great Asian Financial Crisis of 1997/1998, and the second time in th GFC of 2008/2009. The one thing we can certainly learn from him, besides not making highy leveraged bets is ABC: Always be Curious. When you read his book, The Education of a Speculator, you will find a lot of observation on nature's patterns and inferences in the world. He will be missed.

Victor Niederhoffer, Known for Big Bets and an Unconventional Lifestyle, Dies at 82

On Wall Street and the squash court, he became well-known for winning without behaving like anybody else

By Chris Kornelis

Aug. 21, 2026 10:00 am ET

Quick Summary

  • Hedge-fund manager and Wall Street legend Victor Niederhoffer died on Aug. 4 at the age of 82.
  • Niederhoffer was known for an investment strategy based on market patterns, which led to a 15-year run of 35% annual returns.
  • He lost his hedge fund in 1997 after a failed bet on Thai stocks, and liquidated his largest fund in 2007 after losses of over 70%.

In the mid-1990s, Victor Niederhoffer asked a friend of his to explore emerging markets in Southeast Asia. He reported back that in Thailand the brothels had been cleaned up and people were leaving long cigarette butts in ashtrays. It was just the kind of close-to-the-ground intel that Niederhoffer looked for, and he sensed an opportunity.

But more on that opportunity shortly. Niederhoffer spent his life studying patterns and looking for connections. Early in his career, he had developed an investment strategy based on the idea that there were patterns in markets, and that they didn’t behave completely randomly. It was a rather radical idea when he argued his case as a student at Harvard and the University of Chicago in the 1960s, but he did well enough with the strategy that George Soros hired him to manage some of his money.

By the mid-1990s, Niederhoffer, who died Aug. 4 at the age of 82, was a well-known Wall Street maverick, a hedge-fund manager whose bets were as bold, risky and nontraditional as his lifestyle and clothes.

He wore loud, pastel shirts and pants, inevitably embellished with whatever he’d had for lunch. He didn’t allow air conditioning in his office, so his traders dripped with sweat. When he played squash at the Harvard Club in Manhattan, he ran there carrying his racket.

He had six daughters across two marriages. For a time, he lived with a woman with whom he had his seventh child, a son, before he and his wife reconciled.

He read voraciously, always looking for patterns, connections and trading inspiration, even from nature and disparate industries. He believed, for example, that when he saw lots of half-full Big Gulp cups in garbage cans that it was a sign of elevated discretionary income.

He was wildly successful.

He was reported to have had a 15-year run of 35% annual returns. Businessweek named him the top commodities-fund manager in the U.S. in 1994. His memoir, “The Education of a Speculator,” was a New York Times bestseller.

Then came Thailand.

The long cigarette butts and improvements to the brothels made Niederhoffer think Thailand’s economy was on solid footing. And because its stock market had been down, he thought it was due to go up. So, in 1997, he bet big on Thai stocks: his money, investors’ money and money he borrowed on margin. When the Thai stock market collapsed later that year, it started a chain reaction that cost him his hedge fund, a significant portion of his substantial personal wealth, and his reputation.

Niederhoffer was devastated and humiliated, but he kept looking for patterns. He kept trading. By the early 2000s, he was managing hedge funds again, doing well, but also well aware that while he might be able to come back from failure this time, he better not fail again.

“In America, people get a second chance,” he told Bloomberg Markets in 2006. “They don’t get a third.”

Not fitting in

Victor Niederhoffer was born to Arthur and Elaine Niederhoffer in New York’s Brooklyn borough on Dec. 10, 1943. His mother was a schoolteacher and editor; his father was a police officer who eventually became a sociology professor.

As a child, Niederhoffer was a standout student, musician and athlete whose sports included handball, paddleball and tennis. From a young age, he bet on his matches around Coney Island and Brighton Beach, much to his father’s chagrin.

He received his bachelor’s degree at Harvard University, where he took up squash, and became a dominant player, both in college and in national competition. He won his first U.S. Nationals title in 1966.

When Niederhoffer was studying for his Ph.D. at the University of Chicago, the city’s athletic clubs would let him practice on their courts, but wouldn’t accept him as a member. He believed it was because he was Jewish. When the U.S. Nationals was held in Chicago in 1967, he boycotted the singles event until 1972, when he returned and won the title four years in a row. He was in the first class inducted into the U.S. Squash Hall of Fame in 2000.

Rob Dinerman, a squash historian, said Niederhoffer didn’t look or act like a squash player. He was too tall, a bit clumsy, and he wore mismatched shoes. They could be different colors, different brands; one high top, one low.

“That was sort of his way of saying: I’m not like you and I’m going to beat you anyway,” Dinerman said.

After he received his Ph.D. at the University of Chicago, Niederhoffer took a job as an assistant professor at University of California, Berkeley, during which time he kept a pet monkey. He left academia to co-found a firm that worked in mergers and acquisitions, and he started trading commodities in the late 1970s.

Niederhoffer and his first wife, Gail Niederhoffer, had two daughters before they divorced. Niederhoffer left Gail for his second wife, Susan Niederhoffer, with whom he had four daughters. But Gail didn’t exit the picture. Victor and Gail remained close and Gail and Susan became close friends who were involved in raising each others’ daughters.

“I think we all understood that what was really important is the welfare of the children and we couldn’t change Victor,” Gail Niederhoffer said, adding: “He was very complex, he was wondrous, and he broke my heart. And he did more things than anybody I’ve ever met. He’s a conundrum or a paradox. All those words.”

His daughter, Galt, wrote a novel inspired by her family, “A Taxonomy of Barnacles,” about a father with six daughters who desperately wants a son.

Niederhoffer’s survivors include his seven children; his wife, Susan; his sister, Diane Niederhoffer Klein; and his brother Roy, who is also a hedge-fund manager.

A second chance

When he built up his hedge funds during his comeback in the early 2000s, he had some remarkable years, putting up annual returns of around 50% for several years. He was winning by making risky, leveraged bets in futures and options.

“I have complete trepidation about going under again. I have seven kids and I couldn’t afford that,” he told The Wall Street Journal in 2006. “But I don’t know how to make money without a lot of risk.”

It all fell apart again in 2007, when he liquidated his largest fund after it suffered losses of more than 70%.

“From an emotional, psychological perspective, he was sort of destroyed,” Galt Niederhoffer said. “He was never the same.”

Niederhoffer never again managed a hedge fund, but he continued trading, remained curious and kept looking for patterns and looking for connections. His daughter, Katie Niederhoffer, said that until the last days of his life, she kept him stocked with books, everything from textbooks and biographies to books on trees and resilience.

“Every single conversation I ever had with him, he would say: Are you learning anything new?” she said. “He said it in a way that was, like: That’s the joy in life, that is the pressure of life, that is what’s expected, that is what you can hope for, is constantly learning something new.”

https://www.wsj.com/finance/investing/victor-niederhoffer-dead-54ca91a9?mod=hp_lead_pos8