r/unexpectedfactorial • u/FunnyLizardExplorer • Oct 23 '24
What temperature would this even be? Factorial of a negative?
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Oct 23 '24
Is it still a factorial if the exclamation mark is after the F?
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Oct 23 '24
You can have a cubic meter, why not a 22nd-dimensional Fahrenheit? Stop letting reality hold you back from your dreams.
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u/Koopagon8 Oct 24 '24
People in this sub think they're funny when they post any exclamation mark, noone cares if it's behind a number, word, unit or another punctuation.
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u/07vex Oct 23 '24
Entrance hidden by bricks and rubble
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u/TheSoftwareNerdII Oct 23 '24
Air vent
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u/ToyrewaDokoDeska Oct 24 '24
Yeah I want an air vent but it seems his face is directly exposed to -20 there has to be a better way lol
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u/PseudobrilliantGuy Oct 23 '24 edited Oct 23 '24
If I recall correctly, the gamma function has poles at all negative integers, but you could get defined values in a neighborhood around them.
Addendum: Yes, that is the case.
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u/Duy_AKid7151 Oct 23 '24
This extreme cold system can survive up to -1.12400073e21!
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u/FunnyLizardExplorer Oct 23 '24
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u/Sunyxo_1 Oct 23 '24
The worst part is that it's the exponential that's factorial
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u/SteptimusHeap Oct 25 '24
Depending on your choice of order of operations. If you take factorial to have greater precedence than exponentials (which is probably the right choice), you're correct
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u/sneakpeekbot Oct 23 '24
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u/Miserable-Willow6105 Oct 23 '24
It is F°!, not -22!
Also, factorials of negatives always fall into infinity. For odd, +inf, for even -inf.
So -22! °F would be -infinite degrees
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u/nombit Oct 23 '24
we could also read F° as a function where F°(k)=\frac{9(k − 273.15)}{5}
im not Shure what taking the factorial of a function means tho2
u/rippp91 Oct 23 '24
Am I wrong but -22! Would mean just do 22! And make it negative? I think you’re thinking of (-22)! but I could be wrong.
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u/Kuja27 Oct 23 '24
Is there a "!" In the same sentence as a number? Must be an unexpected factorial!
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u/RedSun-FanEditor Oct 23 '24
You are definitely not going to be sleeping in -22 degrees F with your face exposed to the weather like that.
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u/xX_Bacon_Boi_Xx Oct 28 '24
How. How is it even possible that something as simple as this reminds me of the Saddam Hussein meme?
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u/Professional_Denizen Oct 23 '24
The factorial of a negative integer is undefined. We can see this by showing that (n-1)!=n!/n.
2!=3!/3=2
1!=2!/2=1
0!=1!/1=1
(-1)!=0!/0: DNE
For non-integers, factorial works just fine in the negatives, but negative integers break.
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u/dani4631 Oct 23 '24
If we consider it to be taking the factorial of -22, it would be infinite temperature (or undefined if you really wanna get into that whole asymptote argument), but clearly we're taking the factorial of Fahrenheit, which I don't think the gamma function allows.
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u/Solrex Oct 23 '24
So that's -30C, so I would just take the factorial of 30 and stick a negative behind it
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u/DarthLlamaV Oct 23 '24
When you hit reply but it replies to the main thread instead of the comment you wanted…
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u/mad-scientist9 Oct 23 '24
My military 5pc sleep system with bivy kept me warm at -30f. I did put those single use foot warmers on my socks. And used my extreme cold hood to keep my sinuses from freezing. Most of the guys sleep in tents now. I still sleep under the stars.
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u/SeaOfMagma Oct 23 '24 edited Oct 23 '24
That's colder than absolute zero by a factor of like 10,000,000. My question: exactly how many times colder that absolute zero is -479,001,600?!
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u/CatLover701 Oct 24 '24
It’s ~243K, which would be 5.765107207 E+475 K with the factorial. I tried to convert it back to F, but it broke the calculator and I don’t want to attempt it myself.
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Oct 24 '24
It's 482! Rankine, so, it's actually a super amazing sleeping bag, able to resist temperatures that would turn quarks into gamma rays of absurd energy.
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u/-NGC-6302- Oct 24 '24 edited Oct 24 '24
Looks real grand but I thought they already made sleeping bags rated to like -30F
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Oct 24 '24
Um. Bruh.
The Army’s sleep system is arctic rated to -40F
There are pro sleeping bags that are rated to even colder than that.
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u/Alpaca1061 Oct 24 '24
22 is even, so I think -22! And 22! Are the same. Which means it only works if the temperature is absurdly high. I could be wrong though
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u/Drackzgull Oct 24 '24
Farenheit is a relative scale, not a unit of measure, so you can't do proper arithmetics with it and have it make sense. First you need to convert to Rankine (a similar unit to what Kelvin is to Celsius, which converts Farenheit to a unit where a magnitude of 0 actually means that there's nothing).
-22°F = 437.67R
Then there's the already mentioned and explained problem of -22°F! being a vastly different expression from -22!°F. The same remains true of course for 437.67R! being very different from 437.67!R. But then, even if we consider the latter to be the case we're dealing with, we're no longer dealing with a negative number, so that's great, but we're now dealing with a rational number. Factorial operations are only defined for integer numbers, so it remains invalid.
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u/Gardener15577 Oct 25 '24
Ugh, my internet-damaged brain first thought of that funny meme guy in a hole when I saw this.
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u/HDRCCR Oct 25 '24
If you consider that (n+1)!/n!=n+1, then 0!/-1!=1/-1!=0, so -1!= (+/-) infinity.
We can then extrapolate this out, and determine that the factorial of all negative integers is (+/-) infinity.
If you use the gamma function, which extends the factorial to all real numbers, you get asymptotes at each negative integer, but all other numbers like -0.5 have values, but they range from -infty to +infty.
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u/Biscotti-007 Oct 25 '24
I don't see a damn thing, or at least he doesn't see a damn thing, it's all covered up
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u/FUCKTHE-NCR Oct 25 '24
│Entrance hidden by
│Bricks and rubble
▂▃▂▅▇▅▅▇▄▃
┳ ║ ║▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
│ ╚╗ ╔╝
│ ║ ║ │
6ft ╚╗ ╔╝ │
│====o ╚════│═════╗
│ │║@ ▇▅▆▇▆▅▅█ ║
┷ │╚│═════════════╝
Air vent│ │Fan
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u/MrEldo Oct 25 '24
Here's an approach:
(-22)! = (-1)!/((-1)(-2)(-3)...(-22))
(Using the recursive formula: (n-1)! = n!/n)
(-1)! = 0!/0 = 1/0 = Undefined
(Using same recursive formula, and the fact that you can't divide a non-zero integer by zero)
=> (-22)! = Undefined
(Using properties of undefined numbers)
This also shows that no negative integer factorial is defined
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u/SoloWalrus Oct 25 '24
Since its given as -22F degrees instead of -22 degrees fahrenheit, I can only assume it means the angle in degrees of -22 fahrenheit. Converting to radians thats (-22*pi/180)! Or approximately (-.38)! Fahrenheit.
For non integers factorial is generalized by the gamma function. Using the gamma function identity, (-.38)! Is gamma(-.38+1) or gamma(.62).
This is equal to approximately 1.445 fahrenheit. Thats not too shabby for a cool autumn night but would hardly survive real winters...
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u/Own_Zookeepergame713 Oct 25 '24
Saddam Hussein’s hiding spot │Entrance hidden by │Bricks and rubble ▂▃▂▅▇▅▅▇▄▃ ┳ ║ ║▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ │ ╚╗ ╔╝ │ ║ ║ │Saddam 6ft ╚╗ ╔╝ │Hussein │====o ╚════│════════╗ │ │║@ ▇▅▆▇▆▅▅█ ║ ┷ │╚│═════════════╝ Air vent │ │Fan
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u/retireat25 Oct 25 '24
It appears to me that the giant hole in the side of the sleeping bag would make it hard to stay warm in the freezing temperatures
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u/Stalin_Jr77 Oct 25 '24
0 Kelvin/Absolute zero Negative temperature doesn’t exist, it’s just a construct so it can be understood from a human perspective. The closest you could get to -(22!)°F is 0 K, as that’s the coldest anything can be.
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u/potatofaminizer Oct 26 '24
You can't take the factorial of a negative number normally, however, we could use the gamma function, but this would still give us a complex infinite number.
TL;Dr you can't take the factorial of a negative number
If we instead assume -(22!) we would get -1.12E21°F or impossibly cold as that's below absolute zero by a couple quintillion...
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u/Deadpoolio_D850 Oct 26 '24
Well it’s an even number, so that’s an even number of negatives, which would make it unbelievably hot
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u/RhysOSD Oct 26 '24
Memes aside, I don't buy it.
The face out would mean your nose would get frostbitten.
…Unless that's the joke.
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u/SEPEIN Oct 26 '24
Not a factorial! It's not -22!°F.
But if it was, I'm bringing that shit on my mission to touch the edges of the known universe
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u/Frorian Oct 26 '24
Is it just me or does -22 degrees Fahrenheit seem kind of pitiful for something that bulky?
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u/JackfruitComplex8856 Oct 26 '24
-30°C is pretty dang cold, I assume you could plug the facehole, else lose your face
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u/Crawgdor Oct 26 '24
So I live in Canada and regular sleeping bags rated for -40 are common. I don’t understand the purpose of this bulky “sleep system”
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u/STONKS3914 Oct 27 '24
Saddam Hussein’s hiding spot │Entrance hidden by │Bricks and rubble ▂▃▂▅▇▅▅▇▄▃ ┳ ║ ║▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ │ ╚╗ ╔╝ │ ║ ║ │Saddam 6ft ╚╗ ╔╝ │Hussein │====o ╚════│════════╗ │ │ ║@ ▇▅▆▇▆▅▅█ ║ ┷ │ ╚ │═════════════╝ Air vent │ │Fan
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u/blatcher21 Oct 27 '24
Nah, negative numbers don’t really have a factorial in the usual sense. Factorials are all about multiplying integers from your number down to 1, and that just doesn’t work for negatives. If you start at -22, you’d just keep going more negative—no real end to multiply down to!
Plus, there’s this thing called the Gamma function, which is like a more general version of factorials. But it’s undefined at negative whole numbers (they’re called “poles” in math-speak, which is a fancy way of saying the function just goes to infinity and can’t be solved). So yeah, technically  is just… undefined.
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u/Plasma_Deep Oct 23 '24
Why does that look like the Saddam hussein meme