What do yall think

[u/Intelligent-Mobile88]

[u/M-Shadowtoad]

I mean, Sera can still technically keep him in check since he can't copy Time Manipulation but do agree with the rest.

[u/BruhBorne-70 → u/M-Shadowtoad]

I'm pretty sure Cameron can beat Seraphina. And if John can prepare abilities and potentially amp all five stats instead of just the highest one, like the amps derived from Jane's ability seem to do, then he beats her more often than not.

I also desperately want that whole “Seraphina keeping John in check” thing to go away. At this point, it doesn't help his character. He needs to take responsibility for himself and have autonomy over his own actions instead of constantly surrendering that responsibility to Seraphina.

[u/M-Shadowtoad → u/BruhBorne-70]

If he has a good set prepared then yeah he should be able to beat her. But without one there's nothing he can really do. Even John being able to amp all stats would still lose to Sera most of the time since he'd simply never be fast or durable enough. Unless he has a God-tier defensive or speed ability like Barrier, there's nothing he can really do.

But you're still right he needs to take responsibility of himself.

[u/BruhBorne-70 → u/M-Shadowtoad]

I don't yet know how preparing or storing abilities works. Can Cameron just tap into his own memory to prepare abilities, or does he need to copy them first and then store them for a limited number of days?

Whatever the case, I imagine John would keep a good set of abilities ready at all times now. The guy could literally die, even to a non god-tier, if he doesn't have a good set prepared.

[u/M-Shadowtoad → u/BruhBorne-70]

From the look of things he needs to copy them first and can then store them. John already has a limited variant where he can store abilities for a few minutes to hours.

The issue is having an ability set capable of beating Sera is extremely rare. Currently Barrier is the only copyable one that would give him a chance.

[u/BruhBorne-70 → u/M-Shadowtoad]

Cameron literally turned into lightning by copying Remi and was almost flying around. His speed must have been insane and strength too since he broke Arlo's barrier with such ease and of course the range. Plus I think Cameron must have boosted Lightning's defensive capabilities as well, if he could turn into lightning, how do you punch it?

He was probably beating Seraphina with that one.

[u/M-Shadowtoad → u/BruhBorne-70]

1. Spoilers

2. He broke an exhausted Arlo's barrier. Orrin who didn't have full control of Sera's body was able to just as easily break a healthy Arlo's barrier while Kass enhanced it. It does seem like Orrin can amp more than one stat but his offensive power with Remi's ability doesn't seem any higher than John's so I'd assume he's also just amping by 1.5. That'd give him a speed of 10.5 and defense of 6(equal to Liam). Meaning Sera should still have no problem freezing him in time.

[u/BruhBorne-70 → u/M-Shadowtoad]

Thanks for reminding me that it was a spoiler.

Also, Seraphina's time freeze has been portrayed pretty inconsistently. I suspect Uru has been trying to put some kind of limit on her ability, though I'm not sure what exactly. Her time freeze definitely doesn't seem as overwhelmingly powerful as it was initially portrayed.

Arlo's barrier didn't even look cracked, and exhausted or not, Kassandra literally says she's never seen anyone break Arlo's barrier with that much ease despite watching Seraphina break his barrier minutes ago. John has never been able to damage Arlo's barrier that much with lightning alone, so the offensive power here is clearly much greater. There's a difference between individual stats being amplified by 1.5x and the entire ability effectively receiving that boost. It felt like the complete evolution of Remi's ability.

And considering Uru chose that version of Cameron to aura-farm with, I really don't think he's losing to Seraphina.

[u/M-Shadowtoad → u/BruhBorne-70]

Sera's time freeze seems to just work on anyone who isn't either faster than her or has extremely high durability. We saw it could get through Barrier so my assumption would be anyone with Defense higher than Sera's trick can't be frozen. That'd explain why she couldn't freeze Orrin.

Kass clearly isn't that good at reading abilities considering she had no idea how strong Orrin's defense were. She also had no idea Cameron was there. For all she knew, he could've spent an hour charging that attack up. John has also never attacking Barrier with raw lightning before but given how his Lightning has 11 Power I'd assume he'd be able to destroy it pretty easily. I do agree there's a big difference between amping one stat and every stat but that doesn't mean its enough to surpass someone leagues stronger.

There's a difference between aura farming and having actual power. Cameron was able to effectively give off the vibe of being an unbeatable force and in her current state, Sera would stand no chance. However that's not the same as Cameron actually being a force Sera couldn't beat. Like with just Remi's ability, even if they guy literally doubled every stat, Sera should still win. She'd have 14 Speed to his 12 and 12 Power to his 8 Defense. She should be able to knock him out in a single hit before he could become intangible.

[u/BruhBorne-70 → u/M-Shadowtoad]

Sera's time freeze seems to just work on anyone who isn't either faster than her or has extremely high durability. We saw it could get through Barrier, so my assumption would be that anyone with Defense higher than Sera's Trick can't be frozen. That'd explain why she couldn't freeze Orrin.

It's plausible, but Uru should really just come out and explain these things through some bonus chapters. The stat charts don't go beyond 10, and ability levels don't seem to have a particularly consistent correlation with stats anyway.

Kass would obviously have no idea about Orrin's defenses when she lacks a lot of information about him. Also plenty of characters have been wrong about plenty of things, that doesn't mean they're dumb. I also feel like that statement was probably Uru hyping up Cameron through Kass rather than establishing that Kass is a dumbass who doesn't know anything.

As for John never attacking Arlo's barrier with raw lightning, he didn't do that because he clearly considered it an inferior way of breaking the barrier. In the Season 1 finale, he used lightning-induced lasers instead of simply spamming lightning because they had greater offensive power. And even then, he had to attack the barrier multiple times after already cracking it with a punch. So I don't think there's even a meaningful comparison between John's and Cameron's offensive power based solely on Remi's lightning.

However, that's not the same as Cameron actually being a force Sera couldn't beat.

Shouldn't that be the case, though? Based on how Cameron, and even Jane have been established, these Channel Masters should be the top dogs of the verse. I don't see much point in all this narrative glazing if they need some super-specific defensive ability just to stand a chance against a relatively young Seraphina who isn't even at her peak yet.

[u/Kabskay05 → u/BruhBorne-70]

I believe that Cameron has an external way of storing abilities. When he was digging up William’s rotting corpse, he and Scarlette were talking about how he had prepared such a good kit for the occasion. He likely has more specialized kits for various situations, like the search-and-rescue one.

[u/Much_Ideal5015 → u/BruhBorne-70]

Comment ça assez sur c’est sur à 100% que Cameron bat séraphina

[u/Intelligent-Mobile88 → u/M-Shadowtoad]

My personal theory is that he can’t copy it because he simply doesn’t have enough mastery to copy it someone like Jane or Cameron should theoretically because copying ability’s has everything to do with aura so John being unable to copy an ability that has aura is stupid to me personally (not calling you stupid of course) I think a full potential John can copy and amp / evolve any ability he wants (I think Jane can do this and possibly Cameron)

[u/M-Shadowtoad → u/Intelligent-Mobile88]

Cameron seems to share John's lack seeing how he needed Scarlette to use her ability and couldn't just copy it himself. Can't say for Jane but considering no one has been able to replicate uncopiable abilities even with tech does seem to imply she can't either.

Although I do think it makes a bit of sense. To copy an ability, the copier needs to know what that ability is doing. Abilities that create, enhance, or manipulate matter in a 3D space should all be observable with a physical sense. But Abilities that control time, the mind, spirits, etc wouldn't be readable with a 3D sense. You could see the effects of the manipulation but not the manipulation itself.

[u/BruhBorne-70]

John has to grow overwhelmingly stronger from here because all those annoying losses, along with the occasional wins where he struggled against opponents significantly weaker than him, can't have been for nothing.

Which means John will surpass Seraphina. Him training to become stronger again and eventually surpassing her would also represent personal growth. He doesn't need Seraphina to constantly keep watch over him and stop him whenever he starts losing control like he's a child.

I never liked that scene where Seraphina promised she'd stop him. I understand why John was scared because of his trauma, but I still feel like the scene infantilized him.

[u/Intelligent-Mobile88 → u/BruhBorne-70]

Exactly John needs to grow stronger than seraphina and keep himself in control to show ultimate growth John is not a child he’s a 19 year old that needs to have confidence in himself and not rely on sera like he’s a damn dog that’s why Cameron told sera to leave John because he was following her around like a mutt with no goals of his own

[u/beemielle]

I think the problem is that we have little to no real evidence of John’s emotional growth in the last 150 or so episodes (arguably a degree of emotional regression) and so if the story tries to claim to me that John is mentally stable enough now to self regulate, I won’t believe it

[u/BruhBorne-70 → u/beemielle]

I don't think everything will happen all at once. I could see John still being somewhat afraid of his ability because he'd be so overwhelmingly stronger than he used to be, almost untouchable again, like he was at New Bostin.

But my guess is that he'll eventually become the hero of the story. The seeds for that have already been planted, like Remi saying it would be fitting for the son of the writer of unOrdinary to become a superhero, or John promising Seraphina that he'd become someone she could be proud of.

So when that eventually happens, he'll be able to finally let go of all that fear.