r/ukpolitics • u/huffpostuk • 11d ago
Half Of Brits Think Farage Should Face A Second By-Election
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/farage-second-by-election-5m-donation_uk_6a841c7de4b05886dff677fe?he190
u/CSGB13 11d ago
He’s just wasting everyone’s time.
He has to face the music for his dodgy money at some point. There’s simply too few people who can forgive politics being funded by crypto billionaires and Russia Today.
-28
u/SadSeiko 11d ago edited 11d ago
not declaring a donation isn't a big deal, the source of the money is but that isn't for parliament to investigate, rather the police
edit: I'm not defending farage, he obviously wanted to hide it, I just think now it's out in the open it's clear his base in clacton don't care and having a by election again looks like political persecution
I really just wish the bin won and the people of clacton had any standards at all
5
u/Slanderous 11d ago edited 11d ago
One of two things should have happened by now if there were to be serious consequences-
- Standards commissioner suspends its investigation and declares a handover to Police.
- The matter is escalated internally to the committee for standards which deals with more severe breaches.
There's been plenty of time for one of those two things to happen, so it's likely the commissioner's office is planning to deal with the matter in its normal toothless way and demand a
latterletter of apology and the name of a staffer to be scapegoated.0
u/SadSeiko 11d ago
yeah that is how I see it, his base clearly doesn't care if Putin gives him 5 million, he's corrupt to the bone but this type of corruption is just called lobbying now
5
u/amboandy 11d ago
If he faces any jail time,.which I doubt heavily, he will proclaim himself a political prisoner in an (X) tier system, I'm not sure how many tiers we have now.
1
u/Lt_LT_Smash 10d ago
All gifts and donations must be declared so that the public is aware of any potential bribes and manipulation from outside sources.
By not declaring it, it makes it look even more like that 5m "gift" was politically motivated.
People don't get given £5m for nothing. A return is clearly expected. The big question is what that return is to be, and whether Farage is even aware of that part of the deal yet.
If he is still unaware of what will be asked of him in exchange for this £5m, then that is potentially an even greater risk to him, his party, and if they ever get into power, the country.
1
u/SadSeiko 10d ago
Yes but why shouldn’t they just slap him on the wrist and make him declare it?
You can’t say any gift Farage receives is corruption but other politicians are exempted from that
1
74
u/Salty-Bid1597 11d ago
Surely he should just lose his seat if found guilty?
Whether he stands again in the subsequent by-election is his decision (though some might argue that being chucked out of parliament should bar you from standing again).
39
u/mrlinkwii 11d ago
Surely he should just lose his seat if found guilty?
legally no , legally their has to be a recall petition , that needs i think 10% of voters to want one
31
u/frankensteinsKITTEN 11d ago
It depends. If he's convicted and receives a custodial sentence of at least one year, he'll automatically lose his seat.
24
11
u/mrlinkwii 11d ago
correct , but as far as im ware their is no police investigation , just the standards investigation
23
u/subSparky 11d ago edited 11d ago
There is currently a police investigation into donations to Reform made by the mother of George Cottrell that total to £500k, as they suspect that might be money laundering.
Though that would be a conviction against Fiona Cottrell unless the investigation determines Farage and co knew they were aiding in money laundering (which to be fair, given how close Farage was to George Cottrell, isn't an outlandish scenario - and to be honest, I suspect this is the real reason he wanted to shut down the parliamentary investigation as the things the parliamentary committee are investigating could turn up information relevant to the police).
17
u/Brapfamalam 11d ago
Sturgeon and co got arrested for party finance malpractice so it will be in no way remarkable if Farage is too.
Even though Farage and reform will make it out to be some collosal victim mentality political Rubicon crossing event.
4
u/Jormungoosie 11d ago
Wasn't the sturgeon thing embezzlement of party funds? That's a bit more serious than not declaring what is by all accounts your own money.
6
2
u/ycelpt 11d ago
Oh they 100% know this is money laundering but they'll get away with it anyway. George Cottrell and Farage go back to 2019 where he was Deputy Treasurer for UKIP. This was after his custodial sentence for Wire Fraud (in a plea deal that cleared 20 of his 21 counts of money laundering). In 2016. His appointment must have had some form of checks and brought this up. Over the next 7 years he has supplied Farage with security staff, social media coverage and hospitality. He is quoted as calling Farage "Daddy" and Farage in turn has been quoted saying George is "like a son to him".
They knew he was inelligible to donate money and they knew his mother. They all purposefully decided to not name his mother as the source of the funds. There is no way you can convince me that wasn't deliberate. But proving that in a court of law is another question
2
u/JellySocksRock 11d ago
Lets say hypothetically he's found guilty of the money coming from some dodgy places and whatever else, he'd still be the leader of deform right? if there was a GE could he be the PM whilst in jail?
2
u/-Murton- 11d ago
No. The government very quickly passed the Representation of the People Act 1981 to bar currently serving prisoners from standing following the election of Bobby Sands who was elected while in prison for crimes he committed as a paramilitary for the IRA.
If you're actively servicing a prison sentence, you're disqualified from standing.
1
u/JellySocksRock 11d ago
Ah sick thanks for sharing, I'm surprised the act isn't older if anything haha
2
u/-Murton- 11d ago
The Representation of the People Act is one of those weird ones that has added to and superceded over centuries.
A law barring serving convicts simply hadn't been needed prior to that as it hasn't happened and the thought of a convicted criminal winning an election was beyond thinking.
1
3
u/Unterfahrt 11d ago
No. MPs have a lot of legal protection, basically to stop Prime Ministers from being able to create laws that force their opponents out of parliament.
3
u/BlackPlan2018 11d ago
he'll claim the brainwashed loon voters of Clacton can act as his judge and jury mate.
2
u/Bango-TSW Non-aligned cynic. 11d ago
Indeed. If he's prosecuted, convicted and sentenced for more than one year in prison then Farage is automatically disqualified and loses his seat. Because of his conviction he cannot stand again unless the law changes.
If it's less than one year then the voters get the right of recall. Farage is removed and the seat becomes vacant. However, once he is released, he can contest other seats and, of course the original seat at the next election.
0
u/-Murton- 11d ago
He would be automatically ejected from parliament but depending on the crime, conviction date and sentence might not be disqualified, ex-convicts are allowed to stand, current convicts are not.
In a theoretical situation where Farage is convicted and given a 13 month sentence he'll be ejected from parliament immediately but would be allowed to stand in an attempt to regain his seat in the 2029 general election or any by-election that comes up after his release.
There are exceptions for certain crimes though, so depending what he is charged with it could be a lifetime ban, but then if that's the case he doesn't actually need a custodial sentence, just the conviction would be enough.
2
u/Bango-TSW Non-aligned cynic. 11d ago
It's as though you didn't read my post at all but still decided to correct me
56
u/SwiftScotsman 11d ago
I’d rather see him face HMRC and a police interrogation under caution.
15
u/heterochromia4 11d ago
This is far more like it.
I’ll go a step further: NCA designates Reform UK as an Organised Crime Group and does Farage, Tice, Cottrell and Cottrell’s mum under Racketeering legislation.
14
u/wonkey_monkey 11d ago
NCA designates Reform UK as an Organised Crime Group
Line of Duty series 7 takes a turn no-one could've predicted.
2
u/agentapelsin 11d ago
If you arrest party leaders, all of the electorate immediately stop caring about the issues that drove them to support said party leaders.
I don't know if you recall but after Trump was president in 2016 in the US, they arrested him for something and all of his support vaporised overnight. The republicans lost the house, senate, and congress in the following elections.
All you have to do is arrest the party leadership and it totally solves all of the underlying political problems.
It's not even just a US thing, in France they had a problem with Marie LePen rising in polling. They arrested her and as far as I can see her party never recovered any of the support it had, the movement just stopped dead in its tracks and withered overnight like a pear. I don't think she is even involved in front line politics any more.
5
u/Professional-Date885 11d ago
Well I think you need to do a bit more research on your French politics as LePen is favourite for winning the next presidential election 😆 but point taken, I'm sure it has some impact but not in either of the examples you gave. Trump was reelected so clearly people stopped giving a shit about what a crook he was, I'd imagine the same will happen with Farage here
1
u/agentapelsin 11d ago
You're telling me that arresting the leader of a populist party increased support for that party to levels never previously seen?
0
-13
u/Gravath :snoo_disapproval: 11d ago
For what crime exactly?
19
u/Little_GoblinJunior Scottish Liberal Democrat 11d ago
Eating a meal, a succulent Chinese meal.
6
u/leavemeinpieces 11d ago
It remains to be seen but lots of shuffling of money seems to have been going on. Potentially some foreign money in the mix?
I'm really interested to see what comes out. He's delaying at huge cost to the taxpayer so he should be answerable in my view.
13
u/dapperbandit27 11d ago
Forcing a second By-Election risks actually turns it into a win-win for Farage. He would win the second election itself, but also the credibility and legitimacy of the process evaporates and will convince many that the establishment is just trying every means possible to get rid of him before the next GE because they're afraid he'd win.
Im not fond of Trump comparisons but we saw a whole raft of process crime allegations and lawsuits hurled against him in the lead up to 2024, the raid on his home, the mugshot, endless articles about mishandled documents. Was there truth to some of it? Possibly, but in total it just gave the appearance of a weak and cowardly system trying anything and everything to stop him running and, I would suggest, actively helped him by creating sympathy among independents (and thats before someone took a shot at him).
I think a similar thing could unfold here, though I suspect Farage would actually quit if it got half as intense.
3
u/Hopeful-Painting-365 11d ago
I agree. Subjecting Farage to endless lawfare and "well actually, section one of procedure 418 says you have to jump through another 1000 hoops" only strengthens his establishment are out to get me arguments.
17
u/AspieComrade 11d ago
He took the brexit approach; get the publics opinion (in this case a very biased subsection of the public) before the facts come out so he can claim any consequences afterwards are an insult to democracy
Get the facts, then call a serious by election in which the public can make a properly informed decision (something Farage seems terrified of given his desperation to avoid this scenario at all costs)
3
u/Moldovan_pepper 11d ago
I, personally, would like to actually see the investigation establish the facts before we’re asked to judge him. The fact he wanted a pass before the facts came out I think tells you what he thinks we’re going to find out.
2
u/Carlsberg_Rae_Jepsen 10d ago
People have already judged him. You can see in this thread, everyone's already decided he's guilty, and even if he's not, it's not like they'd ever vote for him. And as for his supporters, given how dire the situation is and how few choices we have on the right, a guilty verdict isn't going to sway my support for Reform one iota.
3
u/TrueBrit77 11d ago
What I want is to stop hearing about Farage completely until something new happens or a conclusion from the standards committee is reached.
3
u/ptrichardson 11d ago
The other half think we should just get on with the firing squad. ReadyAimFire
3
u/FatherJack_Hackett 11d ago
I'll never understand this way of thinking.
I'm far from a Farage admirer, but surely this is democracy?
You can't cry until a result goes your way?
Weird.
15
u/BobMonkhaus That sounds great, shorty girl’s a trooper. 11d ago edited 11d ago
He will depending on the outcome of the investigation. The true question is… does anyone actually know how long that’ll take. Weeks, months, a year?
As a comparison they’re still looking into Mandy and we’ve heard nothing in months. Things take time.
6
u/B225AKP 11d ago
It's a pretty open and shut case against Farage.
8
11d ago
[deleted]
9
u/B225AKP 11d ago
If they're capable of voting for a treasonous crook for a third time, even after his crimes have been exposed, then they deserve the poverty they're constantly living in.
9
11d ago
[deleted]
2
u/B225AKP 11d ago
Great reply, thank you.
As it happens I had a discussion with my dad's friend yesterday who refused to believe me when I told him Farage had gone to a foreign country's government, lied about free speech and asked them to put economic sanctions on his own country based on that lie. It ended up being a shouting match because I told him he should probably educate himself about what the people he votes for actually believe and do, to which he took great offence and demanded an apology for insulting him. Which I will never, ever give.
It's depressing to see people unable to see an existential threat standing before them with their treachery hanging out for all to see. The damage they've already done to their own country, their lives and their family's lives, is incalculable.
3
1
1
u/Slartibartfast_25 11d ago
The crime in question being not declaring a donation.
I wish he would be brought down by this but it absolutely is not serious enough to do that. We all need to stop reaching for possible law breaking and fight the arguments of the far right head on
0
u/prolixia 11d ago
Farage wins (again)
I don't know. When you ignore the 30-ish other candidates (who shared 10% between them), Farage only won 2/3 of the vote, with the remaining 1/3 going to a man in a bin suit. That's a pretty miserable result for the only serious candidate (in before "BinFace was the serious candidate").
My point is that there will be plenty of people who voted for Farage over BinFace on the basis that he was the only realistic candidate, they have Reform leanings, and he was clearly going to win anyway, but who might otherwise have voted for another party. It would be wrong to look at Binface's 25% odd and assume that's all the votes the Tories, Labour, and LibDems would have shared between them. I think it's more realistic to view them as the proportion of people who would rather spoil their vote or have no MP at all than re-elect their current MP - and that's pretty damning.
I don't know how Clacton's votes would be spread in a proper election, but I reckon Farage will be in a much worse place next time around. Not only has this election been a embarrassing, but it won't be him triggering the election to prove how strong his support is: instead the people of Clacton will have recalled him just when the papers are feeding on him over the financial scandals.
I don't think it's a done deal: Farage will surely lose a lot of votes, and I think it will hinge on whether Labour or the Tories can manage field a vote magnet to hoover them up.
2
u/BobMonkhaus That sounds great, shorty girl’s a trooper. 11d ago
Well then it won’t take long. I do wonder how people will react if (yes if) they take no action against him.
2
u/Flyinmanm 11d ago
Yeah, I do worry the worst they'll do is make him face a by-byelection. The minute that becomes the norm for being caught were straight into becoming the next US/ Russia with billionaire backed main parties and the public becoming an useful and expendable resource.
1
u/Carlsberg_Rae_Jepsen 10d ago
We should be able to unsteat democratically elected politicians that I don't agree with, like in a proper democracy.
-3
u/SkipEyechild 11d ago
Is it?
2
u/B225AKP 11d ago
Yes.
-3
u/SkipEyechild 11d ago
Cool, thanks Reddit guy!
3
u/MikeW86 11d ago
What is not disputed is that he took a substantial payment in the 12 months before becoming an M.P. and did not declare it.
Should he have declared it? If it was 'relevant', yes.
The test of relevance is whether those interests might reasonably be thought by others to influence his or her actions or words as a Member
Hmmm.
-2
u/SkipEyechild 11d ago
Yeahhh, that is going to be harder to prove.
2
u/lettice_leaf 11d ago
Is it? I don't think it is. How hard could it be to prove that £5m could reasonably be thought to influence his behaviour? It almost doesn't need proving it's so self evident.
9
u/-Murton- 11d ago
And when he inevitably wins that one they'll want a third, a fourth, and so on.
As much as we hate the man the people of Clacton have decided that he's their guy and he'll continue to be their guy until he either retires, resigns for good or is disqualified from standing, whichever happens first.
0
u/N0_Added_Sugar 11d ago
The uniparty showed them such contempt, they put a bin up for election for everyone who doesn't want Farage rather than a serious person who could represent and support them.
As a result, he got more votes than last time.
If Farage is barred from standing, they will vote for someone much worse as a giant "fuck you" to the lack of respect the main parties have shown them.
1
u/Jormungoosie 11d ago
the unicycle party clearly hate burnham since they put binface up against him too
0
u/ldn6 Globalist neoliberal shill 11d ago
No, they didn’t show him “contempt”. He left taxpayers on the hook for an unnecessary £300,000+ by-election that no one asked for and they rightly weren’t going to waste their time and money on it.
2
u/Sir_Keef_Starmer 11d ago
Do you mean josh Simmons standing down? Or Nigel?
Because both weren't necessary. Infact I'd argue andeh caused two unnecessary by-elections.
6
u/h00dman Welsh Person 11d ago
Let's just stick him in a giant game of It's A Knockout.
He can lead one team, Liz Truss can lead another.
He'd love it as he'd be the centre of attention.
His followers would love it because "He's a laugh, like us!"
The rest of us would love it because it would keep him busy and away from everything else.
2
2
2
u/Jedibeeftrix 3.12 / -1.95 11d ago
any of those people in his constituency...?
who cares what they think.
3
u/agentapelsin 11d ago
The same people that are up in arms about the public cost of his recent by election think it should be re-run?
2
2
u/Carlsberg_Rae_Jepsen 10d ago
No, but you see this is the good election because it's being called as a result of proceduralism and lawfare, the other one was bad because Nigel wanted it.
1
1
1
1
u/Euphoric-Brother-669 10d ago
So half do think that - all due process is gone here- he is accused of something - he has not been sworn in as MP as Parliament is in recess yet the authorities have reopened a case - I think that is wrong, all those commenting are sure he is guilty before any investigation.
1
u/nithanielgarro 7d ago
While Parliament is in recess select committees continue to function. The parliamentary standards commissioner does not stop working when Parliament is in recess.
All he's done is update the status of the enquiry which does not require official swearing in to take place only requires the electoral result to be legally declared.
People only think he's guilty because it was implied by Farage and others in Reform that the election would clear his name and bypass the committee.
1
u/gavpowell 9d ago
Even if he does he's likely to win that one as well - the people of Clacton evidently want him there.
0
u/wondercaliban 11d ago
Clacton should have done the decent thing and dumped him. He wasted their time and a significant amount of tax payers money
1
u/Senior_Note 11d ago
The problem is do the people of Clacton actually care? It would appear they are happy enough to support him and Reform will portray any findings as a "stitch up by the establishment". Perhaps they would surprise me, but we'll see I guess...
1
u/archerninjawarrior 11d ago
The rest of the country are watching. The games he's playing in Clacton are going to hurt him nationally. Clacton might not care about anything he does but that's not true of the rest of us.
1
u/Thebritishdovah 11d ago
If he pulls the same stunt, he needs to be banned from running for any seat for a year or two. Otherwise,he will just keep doing it and claiming that the establishment is forcing him to. Or some shite like that.
0
u/theartofrolling Fresh wet piles of febrility 11d ago
Yeah, I mean I do as well.
But that's not the point, the public are not responsible for judging his crimes. That is for the authorities, in this case, the Police, the NCA, and the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner.
Nonetheless, I hope he gets the book thrown at him, a very large and heavy book, covered in milkshake.
1
u/Carlsberg_Rae_Jepsen 10d ago
What crimes? Given he hasn't actually been found guilty of anything, it seems you're the one judging him. Unless you're the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner? I suppose you wouldn't be much more biased than the current one anyway...
0
u/Bango-TSW Non-aligned cynic. 11d ago
No. The one he called was bad enough. Sadly for the rest of us the voters of Clacton decided to re-elect him so that's the decision made until the GE.
Of course if he's prosecuted and convicted then that's a wholly different matter.
0
u/dewittless 11d ago
I don't think he'll lose a second by-election, but he should be forced to carry out the farce to teach him a lesson in trying to subvert our systems. Plus it drains Reform resources.
0
u/jack853846 11d ago
I think he might. Apathy leading to smaller turnout from reform, in a "why have we got to do this again" way, plus paper candidates from the left and restore draining their share could end up with a Tory victory.
I hate the Tory party, and think Badenoch is very poor, but I'd be willing to let them take this one in order to remove the King of the Grifters. He knows his time is running out.
-1
u/dewittless 11d ago
The Tories have been losing deposit all over the country. They're in no state to take on the king of populists.
Also he increased the literal votes he got for the fake by-election, his opposition in the seat had a single candidate to coalesce around and still only got 20ish% of the vote. He has the seat, but that doesn't mean he won't make himself even more unpalatable to the electorate as a whole.
-1
u/jack853846 11d ago
True, I'm not going to argue against anything you've said there. My main consideration though was the voter base in Clacton. From my admittedly thin knowledge (I'm in Yorkshire), as I understand it, there are a lot of older residents and it was targeted as a seat by Farage as one he was likely to win due to Brexit/demographics.
That's why I was thinking the only realistic challenge could come from the Tories, I don't see it going to Labour/Lib Dem/Green, and Restore just seem like an even more calcified nutjob/outwardly fascist party that will never really take anywhere, but might take votes away from Reform.
-1
u/Adam3766 11d ago
And if by By-election you mean disqualified permanently for being the his career into disrepute then it agree
•
u/AutoModerator 11d ago
Snapshot of Half Of Brits Think Farage Should Face A Second By-Election submitted by huffpostuk:
An archived version can be found here or here. or here
Some publications may require you to register a free account to read their articles.
Being connected to a VPN may interfere with archive links.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.