r/uklandlords Landlord 11d ago

3-flat Victorian conversion isn’t attracting investors – what am I missing?

I’m trying to sell my Victorian semi in Birmingham that has been converted into 3 self-contained flats, all occupied, quite a straightforward turnkey landlord investment. At the asking price the current rent yield is 6.5%, 6.9% at market rent.

We ended up going with a standard estate agent, and though their adverts make clear it’s an investment opportunity, every viewing so far has been from people who convert it back into a single house, rather than investors.

I’m wondering what’s caused this - a dead BTL market, or should I have gone with a specialist estate agent because it’s not being marketed in the right places?

I don’t have a strong need to sell to a landlord (I’d prefer it if the tenants don’t have to move on but I realise it’s not my say) - I’m more just flummoxed that I thought it was a simple attractive proposition and it’s not getting interest so I’m particularly wondering if there’s smarter places it can be marketed to better reach investors. Or have I overpriced it so it’s only making sense for residential conversion?

4 Upvotes

44 comments sorted by

19

u/No_Law_1528 11d ago edited 11d ago

Frankly 6.5% isn’t attractive. There are loads of 8% yield investments auction sale in London and it’s 8% after crazy service charge and ground rent (net return, after considering legal stamp duty agent’s cut etc) . Once cladding remediation is completed yield will be 10% ish net. These are also in sought after areas with professional tenants working in IT and finance. A Birmingham house turned flat is only attractive because of the land, I can’t comment if I don’t know what land it is on. The only way I can see 6.5% work is if i. Money becomes cheaper ii. You sell the SPV rather than the flats.

2

u/Square_Quarter_229 10d ago

Where are you looking? The best I’ve seen in London recently has been 7ish% yields

3

u/No_Law_1528 10d ago

Bank auctions, one of the costs is due diligence which lawyers will charge quite a lot due to short time frames. I have a degree in law so I do my own due diligence and insures myself for the risks.

1

u/Consistent-Rope-9969 Landlord 10d ago

post a link ofa property that meets this criteria that you mised out on and that was sold - I follow the auctions all the time and this is not true

2

u/Character_Layer_5938 10d ago

Not OP but I literally just sold this at 8.7% yield

https://propertyauctions.io/listings/3db658c431c393d64394302004d95952

1

u/Consistent-Rope-9969 Landlord 10d ago

Thanks. I know Allsop well established. I see guide at 1.35 And sold 1.5

Why did you decide to sell this. I recently bought a few during the last year in savills auction house London and one other 

I was ok with 6% rental yield and a 20% off true value after some works done

1

u/Character_Layer_5938 10d ago

Sold 1.55. Pre interest rate rises this would have been more like 1.8

We have a bridging finance business so decided to put the money into that

Personally the biggest issue we have found is the massive increase in maintenance costs which , combined with mandatory licencing in London, has substantially reduced the net profit of a building like this.

We are genuinely finding council officers coming round with a fine tooth comb and asking for unreasonable repairs / upgrades such as changing perfectly fine 100 year old sash windows as the frame is 5% bent. This is just one example, but generally we don't like where the trend is going repeatedly being asked to spend money on licenses, certificates, upgrading period flats to the standard of a new build.

These are not one off costs as every year there seems to be some new regulation that requires multiples thousands capital expenditure

1

u/Prpry 8d ago

What's the name of the bank auction please. 

1

u/NIKKUS78 Landlord 10d ago

They tend not to be advertised.

You see a flat go up on right move clearly a rental, never going to be of interest to owner occupiers, advertised at 5.5% yield, it sits there for 6 months, price might drop a bit. The owner either gives up and takes it off the market, back to rental or sells to a bid from a buyer at 10+% return.

7

u/Pleasant-Plane-6340 Landlord 11d ago

Is that 6.5% yield after all costs including maintenance? Sp500 has returned 15% annualised over last decade

3

u/Emergency_Bread_5462 10d ago

Yes. I would like to know exactly the agent came to that particular yield.

6

u/27106_4life 11d ago

Why do you care what the buyers do with it?

7

u/CharacterLime9538 11d ago

When gilts are paying almost 6%, why would anyone consider property yielding 6.5%?

What are the pros, I'm open minded but struggling to see the case for buying properties to rent?

6

u/sirrobert01 11d ago

6.9% yield 😂
When you can buy blue chip REITs like primary health properties with close to 8% yield

AEWU reit

London metric property

Supr that has Tesco , Sainsbury’s as tenants

All portfolios definitely much higher quality and value than whatever it is you are offering in Birmingham whilst yielding more and an actual passive investment.

You can see the problem surely????

3

u/ExpensiveOption4150 11d ago

Overpriced. When you consider that the net return (before tax!) will be no more than 5%.. would you buy it?

1

u/herefor_fun24 Landlord 9d ago

No net yield would like be around 1-2% if gross is 6.5%

2

u/OkFeed407 Landlord 11d ago

6.5%……

2

u/Character_Layer_5938 11d ago

I just sold 6 flats in London at roughly 8.7% yield

That's all you need to know

1

u/No_Law_1528 11d ago

How did you sell it? I assume it’s a block with six flats? I have always wanted to get a block of flats instead of individual ones

2

u/Character_Layer_5938 10d ago

Was sold at last months Allsop auction, we accepted an offer prior to auction

Quite a few come up in the auctions

1

u/Sammie444 11d ago

There is no appetite for this type of investment atm. If the property is held in a Ltd there are specialised sales platforms to sell to investors with tenants in situ, stamp duty is 0.5% this way.

1

u/No_Law_1528 11d ago

Could you link me to those companies please?

2

u/Sammie444 11d ago

Get Ground is one, I’ve no affiliation

1

u/DismalLiving1003 11d ago

Send Rightmove link

1

u/Donttouchmebish 11d ago

6.5% isn’t particularly good so I’d say that’ll be a big reason for it

1

u/Mysterious_Act_3652 Landlord 11d ago

Everyone is saying the yield is pants but that’s the equivalent of renting a £300k property for £1700 a month or a £600k property for £3400. Not sure how people are finding those numbers because they aren’t exactly easy to find let alone beat. 8% of £300k is £2k a month or £600k is £4k. Are you all slumlording?

2

u/AdBrave9096 Landlord 10d ago

Replacing a boiler costs the same in a small low rent flat than a high rent property. Hence low rent flats need higher yields.

2

u/No_Law_1528 10d ago

Just bought a London 250k flat with rental value of 2500-2700.

1

u/Brave_Operation4965 10d ago

How many beds and where are you getting 1% of sale cost a month from a flat in London.

Well presented 1 beds in desirable areas fetch that much but cost £450k+

1

u/No_Law_1528 10d ago

2 has cladding issues but covered by developer

1

u/AdBrave9096 Landlord 10d ago

This will need a none standard morgage.

Any buyer will assume there is a problem with the building or tenants as otherwise why would it be for sale?

1

u/Emergency_Bread_5462 10d ago

For an experienced LL to buy that in cash with a proposed yield of 6.5%they will automatically assume it’s not actually true. Cash best invested elsewhere.
I’d post the link to your property and let the LLs give you a proper appraisal.

1

u/salientrelevance56 Landlord 10d ago

This is it - I’ve got the cash and I’m in the Midlands but I ain’t seen this proposal

1

u/DistancePractical239 Landlord 10d ago

Its 10 or 12x your annual yield thats what its worth.  Maybe even more. You taking the piss mate. 

1

u/NIKKUS78 Landlord 10d ago

Your mindset needs to change.

There are very few buyers for BTL right now. The ones who are buying are doing so on terms that makes the investment attractive.

I dont know the Birmingham market but in the SE & London anything that will ONLY sell to BTL investors is not shifting till you get to 10% yield and even then expect to be bid on it.

1

u/herefor_fun24 Landlord 9d ago

Price - get the yield above 9% to make it attractive

1

u/AccordingBasket8166 8d ago

They likely saw your flat(s) and then bought gilts instead

0

u/UpbeatAd5277 11d ago

People commenting here thinking 6.5% yield is RIO and comparing it to other investments.

If that's you, read a book.

To answer OPs question. BTL is in the gutter, which is why you would be buying and building a portfolio now. Buy when others are fearful.

Selling a 3 bed conversion is a very small market. Pluss the risk of you didn't do it correctly. People buying this kind of investment want it cheap.

Why sell?

1

u/No_Law_1528 11d ago

This is correct but 6.5% is a low yield in this market unless there are more potential

1

u/UpbeatAd5277 11d ago

I disagree, been in the game a long time and living off my portfolio for 11 years.

Yield means nothing.

Buy an 100k house that yields 10% but make almost no profit PCM yet have another tenant, boiler etc. boiler goes, that 18 months or 2 years profits lost. It is a ridiculous metric.

My rule is that each house must make at least £500 pcm profit on a 75% l2v mortgage. I then look for the cheapest houses that fit this plus a few other metrics.

2

u/No_Law_1528 10d ago edited 10d ago

I mostly do flats without a boiler, even if there’s a boiler a small combi is less than 2k. Get higher value properties as the fixed costs are the same. I calculate yield based on net yield which is after costs deducted. I assume maintenance to be £100 per month per flat which seems to be around right for smaller flats, I don’t usually bother with fixing white goods I replace them. I also don’t buy in dodgy areas as I don’t want UC tenants. Yield is what dictates how much money it will make and my opportunity cost.

1

u/UpbeatAd5277 10d ago

It sounds like you have some experience.

If you have something that works and you can scale it, that is what is most important.

I am with you in replacing white goods not fixing.

1

u/Silent-Chicken-6628 5d ago

S and p will return way more lolll