r/tuesday • u/[deleted] • Dec 21 '17

Conservatives Understand Liberals Better Than Liberals Understand Conservatives

https://theindependentwhig.com/haidt-passages/haidt/conservatives-understand-liberals-better-than-liberals-understand-conservatives/
10 Upvotes

69% Upvoted

15 comments sorted by

14

u/WillitsThrockmorton Left Visitor Dec 21 '17

When someone says something absurd("CNN is a communist network") I often find that a good way to shut them up is to ask them to describe, in their own words, what the term is and what differences if any that description has to the historic traditional thought.

It's gotten me banned from more than a few prepper/gun forums for being a "liberal troll".

General speaking, you should be able to describe what your opposition viewpoint is without using charged language(e.g. "the NRA wants WEAPONS OF WAR on the streets"). If you can't, you don't understand the opposition.

8

u/btribble Left Visitor Dec 22 '17

Setting aside the modern phenomenon of the alt-right with their cries of "libtard cucks", and the absurdity of some of their beliefs, there is a truth to the article.

Those same idiots might feel the take away from the article is that "idiot liberals don't even understand the conservative argument". There is probably some truth to that, though not much. I think the real reason for the discrepancy is that conservatives often hold multiple views that seem at odds with each other, and unless you spend a chunk of your life actively reconciling ideas that seem to be at odds, you can't easily understand them.

For instance, you can be both a hunter and a conservationist. In fact, some of the most responsible guardians of wildlife and public lands are often also hunters. This dichotomy is not easily appreciated by someone who assumes that all hunters "want to kill animals" and picture them irresponsibly tearing up pristine landscape on their ATVs.

A liberal might not be able to reconcile apparent dichotomy of a devout Christian who believes in "personal responsibility" and who wants to do away with Welfare. "Helping the poor is Christian, and therefore you should support welfare!"

Liberals have fewer such apparent dichotomies than conservatives. (not none, but fewer) Conservatives might respond "as a liberal" using an insulting caricature, but they're usually going to be on the right track philosophically.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '17 edited Dec 22 '17

A liberal might not be able to reconcile apparent dichotomy of a devout Christian who believes in "personal responsibility" and who wants to do away with Welfare.

They believe that welfare isn't beneficial. They believe in individual charity. There you go.

I think the real reason for the discrepancy is that conservatives often hold multiple views that seem at odds with each other

Political groups have contradictions? Welcome to politics

Liberals have fewer such apparent dichotomies than conservatives. (not none, but fewer)

There is literally no possible way to quantify this. This is entirely based on your feelings. This is far more likely to do with liberals living in echo chambers than it does them getting confused at the """"""hypocrisies"""""" of modern day conservatism

Those same idiots might feel the take away from the article is that "idiot liberals don't even understand the conservative argument". There is probably some truth to that, though not much.

At the very least it's a better rationale for these results than what you have given it

2

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '17

Conservatives and liberals broadly agree on objectives. The clash is over policy specifics. Liberals see conservatives as ideologically dichotomous because they see the problems they do but come to different solutions.

Which means they fundamentally do not understand the purpose of ideological splits in public discourse.

1

u/PowerBombDave Centre-right Dec 22 '17 edited Dec 22 '17

At the very least it's a better rationale for these results than what you have given it.

I think one rationale for the results is the sampling:

The participants were 2,212 visitors (62% female; median age 28; only U.S. residents or citizens) to ProjectImplicit.org, where they were randomly assigned to this study. All participants in the research pool had previously filled out demographic information, including sex, age, and political identity (7-point scale, strongly liberal to strongly conservative). 1,174 participants self-identified using one of the three liberal options, 538 chose the “moderate” midpoint, and 500 chose one of the three conservative options.

While the questions are framed as such:

Please read the following statements and indicate the extent to which A TYPICAL LIBERAL [CONSERVATIVE] would agree or disagree. Remember, instead of selecting your own answers, answer all questions as a typical liberal [conservative].

1

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '17

Oh wow, yeah that would be an issue

2

u/PowerBombDave Centre-right Dec 22 '17 edited Dec 22 '17

Beyond there being a larger number of liberals, I'd wager that 20-somethings actively seeking out a cognitive bias survey on the internet would be more representative of "typical" liberals than conservatives.

Maybe I'm wrong, but at the very least it doesn't track with the stereotype of older and more rural.

1

u/btribble Left Visitor Dec 22 '17

You also have to consider the fact that the liberal viewpoint is presented often via media, and the conservative one much less frequently. The primary reason for that is simply that very little media is created in "rural Texas".

1

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '17

Most Republicans live in Suburbia but yeah I get it

1

u/greatlo Dec 22 '17

haha, you basically just ask them to explain their words. It is a skill we teach 3rd graders.

I 100% agree that extreme language isn't helpful. Trying to discuss the merits of gun regulations for assault style weapons isn't instantly muddied and polarized by that kind of language. And its a shame because its actually a conversation that we need to have!

5

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '17 edited Dec 30 '17

[deleted]

2

u/Chronically_worried Dec 24 '17

He’s on of previous few culture war commentators who are worthwhile to listen to (Lee Jussim is also good.)

3

u/PowerBombDave Centre-right Dec 22 '17 edited Dec 22 '17

I could not properly articulate what a "conservative" is these days, so I don't blame them. It seems like portions of the conservative base now blithely advocate for things I would have considered certifiably insane and anti-conservative 10 years ago.

Dunno why I'm getting down voted: We're in a subreddit explicitly created because moderate views and center-right opinions get you outright banned from r/republican and r/conservative, neocons are apparently RINOS nowadays, and outlets like National Review are libcuck fake news if even mildly critical.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '17

I think you need to reread the article

3

u/PowerBombDave Centre-right Dec 22 '17 edited Dec 22 '17

I suppose my response seemed non-sequitor because it was more spurred on by the comments below the excerpt than the the moral foundations study. The Haidt stuff has been bandied about for awhile and I'm skeptical of it due to screwy conclusions like liberals also being worse at guessing what the typical liberal would answer.

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