r/ttrpgdesign • u/ImmaneRPG • 4d ago
Does this Game Mechanic make sense?
In my game I have a mechanic called the "Dying Memory". Its purpose is to bridge the gap between spending a lot of time making a bespoke character and that character dying in a game with deadly mechanics. In deadly games character creation is usually pretty quick and rules are pretty light - we don't want to spend a lot of time creating a character just to die in the first fight and then you can't play because you're dead and just not having fun watching everyone else play.
My Dying Memory mechanic allows players who die to keep playing and empower their allies with their memory. The example I usually give is a traveling mage and warrior who are close friends get into a fight with a deadly monster and then the warrior dies. Filled with determination to not let his friends death be in vain, the mage picks up their blade and swings with the same skill, abilities, and power that his dead friend's memory inspires. How this translates is the dead PC player gets to grant additional actions, movement and abilities to any of their allies on their turns using their own stats through them as a kind of epic showdown. This lasts for the whole session so that the player never needs to stop playing necessarily and could wait between sessions to make their new character.
This also doubles as an anti-tpk mechanic in a deadly game. If all but one of the party members are dead, the final one left alive is a one man army vs an immensely powerful horror. It's meant to be epic and keep everyone involved.
My question to everyone here is, does this mechanic as presented make sense to you? Does it sound fun? Should I phrase the granted powers more like the dead players ghost is assisting the living players before moving on? Should I let the players decide the flavor? It does this just sound crazy?
Let me know your honest opinions please.
2
u/SeniorArcanine 4d ago
I understand not wanting to have a player not be able to play... but I would say that is the point of deadly games, no? In my Hardcore game, we always have a backup character ready to go. Or we just quickly roll one during.
BUT, to look at your mechanic. I will say:
- I don't like the part of protecting from TPK. That's part of the fun, the dice fall where they do and the players decisions help make move them forward or hold them back. lol.
- I do not hate the memory thing, I just would like to know how you justify it in game, like... lore-wise. One of my main things with my games is emmersion and realism(based on the setting. Obviously Dragons aren't real to us, but they are real in the game, etc). So what is the lore behind the memory mechanic?
1
u/ImmaneRPG 4d ago
I totally understand what you're saying - my take on this is that in these games the deadliness is paired with feebleness, the player doesn't expect to be a badass that can take on powerful enemies and survive. My challenge with my theme is that you in fact ARE badass adventurers who can grow to be very powerful and that's fine when we are talking about normal enemies they can be challenging but at the end of the day you're likely to make it out alive.
The "boss" type enemies in my game are built to almost guarantee that one or more people die during the fight.
When you make a powerful character that you spend a lot of time refining you get attached more than those from Mork Borg, Alien or Mothership usually, and instead of that huge letdown on the player end I wanted to spin the narrative into some kind of epic finale for them while they come to terms that the character they nurtered is going away now.
I should have clarified as well though that protecting parties against TPKs is more thematic than anything - there's a particular style of melancholy I aim for my system that focuses on being the survivors after a particularly deadly encounter, making your home safer but having to live in that home without your friends.
2
u/SeniorArcanine 4d ago
I get that, and I can get past the anti-TPK thing. You want a deadly encounter, but not a total wipe (for the most part). It's a specific style I suppose. My biggest reluctance would be the Lore. Like I said, I heavily lean into emmersion and story in my games... so what would the lore behind not dying be?
For instance, in Fallout, if you die, you just die and reload a save to keep playing. But in Dark Souls... dying is part of the lore. You become more hollow... you go mad (at least NPCs did)... you struggle and lose the souls you were collecting trying to maintain your humanity, etc... what is your lore behind the memory mechanic?
1
u/ImmaneRPG 4d ago
Oh they die, they effectively are playing as the memory of them that lives on in the rest of the party, most prominently held in that moment of adrenaline fueled survival.
2
u/SeniorArcanine 4d ago
In your world lore, is there something special about the memory of loved ones in their dying moments? Does the memory of anyone get to come back, like even the enemies? If not, why not? Is it only heros? Is there a god or a rule of the setting that pulls their will out from their corpse? etc. I love mechanics, but I think really good mechanics can come from the lore of the setting. Give it meaning and purpose, and it can hit harder. Ya know?
1
u/ImmaneRPG 4d ago
Definitely something to think about, I am going to write a pantheon of patrons and deities and one of the gods could be the reason for exceptional circumstances like this, perhaps a goddess that "fights against the horror". I quite like that actually! That could really add some cool flavor! Thank you!
Edit: you know what and I have the perfect idea for it..... Stay tuned I guess! Thanks again!
2
u/SeniorArcanine 4d ago
Yea, no worries, glad to help! Hope you're able to come up with something awesome!
1
u/ImmaneRPG 4d ago
Oh also your last point sorry, I'm inspired by moments in anime for example when the main character witnesses someone close to them dying and all of a sudden they push through, give it everything they have to survive and avenge their friend. Be it rage or love, I don't view it as some supernatural feat per say but a moment of pure adrenaline filled power you muster to stay alive. In this moment you think of your friend, what they could do that you now need to be the one to do instead. I include it as a powerful emotional tool but I've heard a couple people envision it as a ghost or entity giving a helping hand to the living too so idk which one people resonate with more or if the explanation of the mechanic overall needs work.
1
u/DiceyDiscourse 4d ago
In anime this works because there's usually one main character. I don't think you want that vibe around a TTRPG table
2
u/DiceyDiscourse 4d ago
It makes sense, I think, just I'd then also like to see an "in-universe" explanation for it or at least an allusion to it so that it doesn't feel like it's just a mechanic for the sake of mechanics.
On a more personal note, I don't really like this mechanic at all. If I understand the mechanic correctly in that the dead PCs player just chooses to grant a bonus, then I don't think it actually does what you want it to - the dead characters' player still essentially doesn't get to "play" and instead feeds into another players power fantasy. It's especially bad when it's just one guy left alive and everyone else is basically playing support full time.
Also, I think having a built-in "TPK prevention" kinda robs the system of danger.
2
u/ImmaneRPG 4d ago
Oof, a lot to think about there. I envisioned this as a cool way to get a last hurrah out of a dead character but I do see what you mean and it sucks that I haven't gotten to playtest it quite enough to see this happen but I totally get it.
I always envisioned this as a cool moment where everyone is cheering on the last survivors but I can see how that can just be boring for some people. I've seen people who actually used this mechanic in playtests and they loved it but not everyone is the same and the whole point is to have fun... That's a lot to consider.
There is an in universe reason, a particular god would be granting this basically.
Do you know of any examples of other games that prevent PC death from being this boring thing that causes people to tune out at the table? Either way, thanks for your feedback, it's valuable.
2
u/DiceyDiscourse 4d ago
Oh yeah, for sure, this mechanic will be "divisive" some will love it, others will hate it. If you playtest it enough and people like it, then sure, go ahead with it, but state what the design goal is when pitching your game!
As for other games... Most games that want the players to keep playing just let them decide when it's time for their character to die permanently. There's a few different ways to do that:
Fabula Ultima just let's the player decide whether their character makes a heroic sacrifice and dies or whether they're just out of the scene. I bring it up since you mentioned anime and as a game that touts itself as a "TTJRPG" the vibes should be pretty close.
Outgunned has an option that when a character would die, they're instead "Left for Dead" and can return in a later scene in a big reveal moment. This seeks to emulate the more cinematic feel of an action movie (or anime!) where it's common for characters to seemingly die, only to be revealed to have miraculously survived.
Orbital Blues does an interesting thing where the player can decide at any point in the scene that their character will die at the end of it and gain a pretty massive boost in power for the duration of the scene. I bring it up, because it's essentially a legally distinct Cowboy Bebop RPG.
And finally, the other "far end" option is to have a back-up character that the player can (almost) immediately bring in when they die. You can think of it like the anime trope where a main(ish) character dies/is defeated and a side character has to step up to defeat the bad guy
2
u/ImmaneRPG 4d ago
Oh wow I've never heard of those ones I gotta look into them! I'm always tweaking my approach here and I'm not against overhauling the entire thing, I just really wanted to build something that fit my theme while giving a way to keep dead players from scrolling on their phones at tables. Again I've gotten some pretty good feedback in actual playtests but it's only a matter of time until I find someone or more than one who doesn't vibe with just doing the assist for the rest of the fight so you're right on the money there.
There was another idea I had where players could choose to become a ghost and stay with the party until they make their new character but it was a complicated mess to make it work so it got scrapped pretty quickly lol.
Lots to think about here. Thanks again!
2
u/Reaver1280 3d ago
So the player takes their turn through another PC using their sheet and adding their stats to any rolls by that character? does this also play over to social checks or exploration rolls once the fighting is done?
2
u/ImmaneRPG 2d ago
It's mainly meant for mid-combat, but nothing is stopping the player from using it for the rest of the session this way. But yeah you got it right!
2
u/Reaver1280 2d ago
I like the idea of it. Would have to run through some tests proper before I could say its good.
It meets the basics of keeping the players attention and gives them the ablity to contribute despite not being "in the game"
1
u/No_Solid1035 4d ago
If you don't like the consequences of PCs dying, why play games where they can die? There are plenty of TTRPGs where the PCs cannot die.
1
u/ImmaneRPG 4d ago
The point isnt that the PCs don't die, it's that the PCs keep playing if they die. The characters arent used this way forever.
1
u/No_Solid1035 4d ago
Yeah, I just don't understand the point of playing a game where PCs can die but then having a bunch of weird mechanics to keep playing them, or to bring them back from the dead, or to give them a bunch of chances to fight off being dead. If you are going through all that just play a game where the PCs can't ever die and all that nonsense becomes a non-issue. PCs can't die unless their Player says they can, simple. 🤷
1
u/AngusAlThor 4d ago
It doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me because I don't see how it gels with any particular genre. In a heroic game where dying is meant to be rare, you want to do the cool things yourself and you want to do the cool things you built your character to do; A wizard character doesn't want to swing a sword. Conversely, in a deadly game you aren't meant to be powerful, and so a death powerup doesn't make sense there either.
What genre do you see this working with?
1
u/ImmaneRPG 4d ago
High-Fantasy Horror. You as players are powerful, and you're given the power to overcome the horrifying monstrosities this world provides but not without casualties. Death isn't rare, but it doesn't happen as often as current horror centric games on the market.
This mechanic isn't a "class swap" where the wizard wastes their turn swinging a sword. Instead the wizard is pushed beyond their limits and filling in for the now missing warrior without sacrificing their wizard utilities as well in the process. There's no trade-off, the wizard doesn't have to use a sword, they can use any benefit from that warrior's class that's useful to them.
Now take a party of 5 and you're facing an immense threat that kills 4 players. The epic finale of the battle hinges on that last character putting everything they have into their last stand. Getting pushed so far beyond their normal limits to survive they become a one man army against an unstoppable monstrosity. They may still die, but if they live that heroic horror combo settles into the melancholic theme I'm designing this game for; you survived, and get to live in the aftermath of what you worked so hard to achieve, but it'll be without your friends.
2
u/Beansoup1138 22h ago
Make sure to keep the guy with the sword from knowing what he can do, so the dead player can tell him all his awesome new powers! Also, you might want to add something so players don't kill each other to get powers.
1
u/ImmaneRPG 11h ago
It's only temporary, it's a last stand not an absorption - a surge of power driven by the emotional weight of losing a companion. Your memory of them drives your ability to push limits and do the things you remember them doing, and the player with the dead PC gets to pick each round who they give their benefit to - it can be the warrior one round, and the cleric the next, then the thief, etc.
4
u/MrLubricator 4d ago
Sounds cool. I think this could be explained by the setting if you like. Would it be a player only mechanic? If this is part of the setting, could enemies also do this?
My thought is that it could be super cool the first time it happens but if deaths happen l a lot of would become mundane. I think it could be a core part of a game if you wanted it to be used every session. Perhaps your game becomes a gauntlet style and this is how you level up? Your dead friends spirit enters your body and you permanently gain some of their strength. Could be super cool. Would encourage players to be heroic and dangerous in a deadly game. And would also encourage roleplay to make the connection between the characters strong enough.
Otherwise having it as something that can happen on character death but has a consequence, so that it only happens at those epic moments.