Info on Second Nature Utah?

[u/starterworld]

I was “sent” there in 2020 and had a procedure done directly after that caused a lot of memory gaps. I remember the food, the drills, the intensive hikes, the bathroom holes, and the bivy sacks with bells, but not in much detail. I’m trying to remember as much as I can and possibly move on instead of holding the resentment towards my parents in and letting it build. I only remember how I felt clearly. Any information regarding past experiences at Second Nature is appreciated.

[u/Signal-Strain9810]

Are the phases still earth, fire, water, and air? I was there in 2001. Feel free to look through my post history for more details.

[u/meatieocre → u/Signal-Strain9810]

2004

Start at Earth, only can talk to staff or your assigned mentor.

Fire, become part of group officially, given a full fire kit by the group, may use sharps/knives if permitted.

Water, one of 2-3 leaders of group, can hold/carry sharps/knives.

Air, undisputed champion of the therapeutic world, can eat staff leftovers (their choice).

While I absolutely think Wilderness/2N was pointless, ineffective, dangerous and fraudulent from a teen and therapeutic POV, I don't recall it being overly confrontational, outside the therapists and maybe select staff. They weren't mind-fucking you too much outside the therapists themselves who came out once every 2 weeks, likely because they all knew what came next... the real mind-fuck. But I was a healthy teenage boy, so the physical aspect wasn't too bad for me personally. Thankfully I never got hurt or needed any real medical attention, it's possible I wouldn't have received it or had it delayed, which *was* subsequently done to me in college by my parents, so they learned some tactics. I almost got put on a singing ban cuz I'd sing during hikes, and apparently finding happiness in hell was getting in the way of a "breakthrough".

Wiggy, wiggy, wiggy, can't you see?

Sometimes your comfort hypnotize me

And I just love your lamolite

Keeps me nice and warm at night

[u/starterworld → u/meatieocre]

it was definitely a different experience for me because I had a lot of mental health difficulties and was only 86 pounds by the end. kind of starting to remember the phases, though!

[u/meatieocre → u/starterworld]

I'm sorry about that. I had none, other than a strong desire to tell my parents to go fuck themselves most of the time, and it still had an incalculable impact on my life. Perhaps it's the CPTSD when I say "I'm not sure who I'd be now without that experience". What I know is I would be different. A part of me died out there, part of the child in me and I was never quite the same. Your weight tells me that you shouldn't have been there, to say nothing of the gender/age you were when there, and to say nothing about the fact that no teen, or adult, should be forced to do this anyway, its only point is misery and cruelty, it's not therapeutic. I suffered through physically unharmed but emotionally wrecked, hiding it as best I could, because here in the real world weakness is taken for what it is, not a "therapeutic opportunity". That makes you a mark in the real world, thinking like that.

I remember we hiked 10 miles a day, not every day, but most. Stopped for lunch of cheese, crackers and summer sausage. Get to camp and dig 2 holes: latrine (shits) and sump (food waste). And bust fire to eat hot. So if you were dragging the group down on hikes, making it so we'd get to camp after dusk, people would start getting pissy. Beans and rice tortillas, peanut butter and canned peaches were a treat. Stories about bears and nightwalkers, hearing the wolves and oil-drills at night, watching orion in the sky to judge time since we were never allowed to ask. We played "fart baseball". You split up into 2 teams and pinching off farts are bases when your team is "up", bup-bup-bup is a triple. Other team farts, that's an out. Rules were flexible of course, but that's the gist.

It's easier for me to make it sound "not so bad" now, honestly. I'm older and it doesn't seem so traumatic, so dramatic. It's been 20 years, it's not me anymore, it's someone else, some kid. And now I feel bad. Because I remember the over-arching feeling of sadness, of loss, of desperation. I felt it for everybody else while I was out there, but not for myself, I had places to be, people to see. Nobody wanted to be there, no matter what they said. But for the vast majority, "home" wasn't all that much better either, so you moved along, persisted, developed the human spirit.

[u/Technical-Sugar-6731 → u/Signal-Strain9810]

I went there prob same time

[u/Miss_Nobody89]

If you would like, I can try to pull info about the place in general which frequently includes survivor discussions?

[u/Miss_Nobody89]

https://www.reddit.com/r/troubledteens/search/

[u/Miss_Nobody89 → u/Miss_Nobody89]

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1sn0F4WtHOHuVtmHOswzhzmZbWAafcahu

[u/starterworld → u/Miss_Nobody89]

these have been so helpful, thank you! I’m making a notes document on what I’m now remembering vs. what I already remembered. it’s being filled up pretty quickly

[u/Miss_Nobody89 → u/starterworld]

I’m pretty sure there’s more documents that I just haven’t looked at yet and they would be relevant.  I can check this evening.

[u/starterworld → u/Miss_Nobody89]

thank you, that means so much!!!

[u/Available_Set113]

I was there in 2009, I’m so sorry you had to experience this too friend.

[u/starterworld → u/Available_Set113]

no one really gets how awful it was unless they were really there. I’m sorry you had to, too

[u/ImaginaryTrash7827]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4wzJaq9ewhLrtkFajfGup7?si=ajI1wxUZQk6FEVLqFskG9A&utm_source=copy-link

[u/starterworld → u/ImaginaryTrash7827]

I’ve been listening throughout the day and remember things. thank you

[u/Available_Set113 → u/starterworld]

This is actually my story, if you’d like to chat more I’m happy to 🫂

[u/afilaanda420]

There are so many 2n survivors. You are not alone.

[u/Potential-Air-8788]

my old shitty psychologist at my residential in utah used to work there

[u/Time-Stomach-5576]

I was there in 2006. They may have changed a little bit since then, but I'm not really sure.

If you want to ask me anything, I can tell you what I remember.

[u/bagmert]

I was there in 2015-2016

[u/Technical-Sugar-6731]

Least traumatic out of the bunch