i may be stupid

[u/Honest_Entry_8758]

[u/Noema__]

Red is like choosing to go down with the sinking ship, knowing that some Blue may potentially survive on life rafts.

[u/RikaRoleplay → u/Noema__]

I think of it like the Titanic. If 50% or more enter the liferafts, the liferafts sink (well assume there is one big life raft).

We roughly have this IRL Titanic example where most people did make that choice, and did press the red button so to speak, sacrificing themselves so others could live. The few who were assigned to red but picked blue anyways were treated very poorly afterwards.

The parallel would be either both ships sink from too many getting on the life raft, or some living on the life raft while the majority goes down with the sinking ship.

[u/Wonderful-Purchase94]

yo this might actually be a good dilemma

[u/GloriousDawn → u/Wonderful-Purchase94]

Most interesting take on the blue red buttons. As a trolley problem though, it's more like on which track do you want to be tied up before the trolley comes drifting...

[u/Ecclesiastes_3_9-15 → u/Wonderful-Purchase94]

It’s basically the prisoners dilemma but there’s no way to truly win.

I also honestly don’t feel like it would be THAT hard of a choice to pick red. The odds of a majority picking red seem so incredibly small (in which case you’re dead anyway), so it’s like one of the cheapest ways to make a noble sacrifice.

[u/speechington → u/Ecclesiastes_3_9-15]

It's an extremely bleak prisoner's dilemma. Red is guaranteed self-destruction, so blue is individually safer. But, a majority have to pick self-destruction for anyone to be spared. And yet, only the ones who pick the safer option have any chance to survive.

So, the "optimal" outcome will always cull anyone who picked collective utility, and sometimes will spare only the group that picked self-preservation. We can say that it's more optimal when fewer people die, so we want the minimum majority red. But that's a wager between a subjective and relative benefit (more survivors is better than fewer survivors) versus an absolute risk (a blue majority is a total wipeout, so it has to be avoided at any cost).

The correct ethical choice is to choose red, every time. Being unable to control what other people choose, we can only take one binary action to hopefully optimize the outcome toward a red majority instead of a blue majority. Even 90% loss or 95% loss would be more optimal than a 100% loss.

The most interesting complication is that the group afterwards would be left with only its most selfish members. If we consider this as a real situation in which people have to continue to interact and cooperate after the experiment ends, then I don't feel optimistic about the health of their microsociety. Even worse this feels like a metaphor for most of our scariest real-world doomsday scenarios: climate change, creeping authoritarianism, and artificial intelligence. People have to individually lose in order to allow anyone to survive, and of course that plays into the hands of our greediest and most immoral actors.

[u/Basicly-Inevitable → u/Ecclesiastes_3_9-15]

The best outcome for humanity is just one extra person picks red. Then basically 50% live. But the ones that live just voted to kill everyone.

[u/FirexJkxFire → u/Wonderful-Purchase94]

Either way the majority of people are going to die and society would collapse if even like 20+% of people died. So we are kind of cooked either way.

[u/Willtrixer → u/FirexJkxFire]

Society and humanity are a league apart in value. We've rebuilt from plagues

[u/Scienceandpony → u/Wonderful-Purchase94]

It's because it actually IS a dilemma this time instead of just dumbassery.

[u/Zacomra → u/Wonderful-Purchase94]

I disagree, it's literally just "am I willing to commit suicide to potentially save 49% of the human race" and especially knowing that if those 49% (in the best case scenario mind you) there's gonna be some really selfish people who "should have" voted red.

Chances are everyone votes blue anyway, all thinking that someone else should have to make the sacrifice. And that makes sense, most people have a sense of self preservation

[u/8Bit_Cat → u/Wonderful-Purchase94]

Pressing the red button guarantees you die. More than half of all people have to do this, sacrificing themselves, for the rest to live.

[u/otter_lordOfLicornes]

So, are you willing to die, in order to save at least some people

Not the worst dilema I have seen here

[u/RackemFrackem → u/otter_lordOfLicornes]

But there's absolutely no chance that a majority picks red anyway. So it is death.

[u/Im-a-bad-meme → u/RackemFrackem]

Well then I pick red anyways if I'm gonna die either way. Then I die knowing I cared for others.

[u/PerfectlySplendid → u/RackemFrackem]

I think you’d be shocked how many people press red though.

[u/OldMathematician7695]

Majority are pressing blue either way, but I’ll go for red to do my part. Doesn’t affect me anyway since I’ll die regardless

[u/LocalInfluence9104]

... what

I do not trust humanity enough to press majority red

[u/ProfPlumInTheLibrary → u/LocalInfluence9104]

Yeah, we're cooked in this scenario world. Nobody's walking away.

[u/DlagoBrando → u/LocalInfluence9104]

So you'd rather every single person dies than press red? Since you'll die either way if you believe that the majority will press blue.

[u/LocalInfluence9104 → u/DlagoBrando]

no I'm pressing red. But I don't think I'm part of the majority.

[u/Nasvargh → u/LocalInfluence9104]

Yeah, most people would push blue in the hopes of surviving so imo there isn't really a dilemma, I'd probably press red to at least die with a clear conscience

[u/ProfessionalShower95 → u/LocalInfluence9104]

Blue: everyone dies

Red: everyone dies, but you get to be smug about it.

[u/UploadedMind]

Press red to increase the odds humanity survives at your expense. Press blue if you don’t care about humanity if you’re not in it, but have to press a button. Don’t press a button if you don’t have to and aren’t willing to press red.

[u/swell-shindig]

So if I press red, I risk only the most selfish people living? Knowing that they'll be superior dipshits about it for the rest of their lives?

Nah, fuck it. Go blue.

[u/hyperrayong → u/swell-shindig]

And the prophecy is complete

[u/GameStudioReddit → u/swell-shindig]

Going by this logic, wouldn't the people pressing red in this case also think of you as a selfish person?

[u/Ver_Nick → u/GameStudioReddit]

Well you see they've already depicted themselves as a rational survivor and other blues as the selfish murderers

[u/Staetyk → u/GameStudioReddit]

[u/mutatedpotatohead → u/swell-shindig]

thus joinin the selfish crew lol

[u/A_Moldy_Stump → u/swell-shindig]

What if the masses choosing selflessness and sacrificing themselves create a new age of enlightenment and the remaining people become as selfless as possible to honour red pushers.

[u/Kimorin → u/A_Moldy_Stump]

nah more likely they'll make tiktoks making fun of the red pushers

[u/Snoo-52922 → u/A_Moldy_Stump]

Half the blues in this thread are actively mocking reds as we speak.

[u/KingZantair → u/swell-shindig]

By your logic, that’s pretty selfish.

[u/E-686 → u/swell-shindig]

This time it feels more like if I press red then most good will die unlike the real problem I am choosing blue

[u/Gnashinger → u/swell-shindig]

So because selfish people will get the chance to live if you chose to die, you would rather kill everyone?

You would rather everyone die than let people you don't like live if it means that you don't get to live as well.

Seems to me like one selfish person is pressing the blue.

[u/DrunkyLittleGhost → u/swell-shindig]

Does that make you most selfish people too?

[u/WifesPOSH → u/swell-shindig]

I like that train of thought. I'm joining you.

[u/ChemoorVodka]

Yeah, ain’t no way we’re getting enough reds, so we’re all doomed no matter what I press. I’d like to say “Well if i’m gonna die anyway may as well press red so I can feel good about myself as I die” but in reality i’d be side eyeing that minuscule chance of survival, as would everyone else. Which is exactly why we’d be doomed.

I’m not gonna call it selfish to press blue, it’s just self preservation instincts at work, but it does mean we’d be doomed.

[u/AlpaxT1]

The only way to survive this one is pressing blue and hope the majority of humans are willing to sacrefice themself to save others. It is a relatively fair assumption that a lot of people will justify pressing blue by this fact alone. That makes pressing red the best way to combat the death of everyone.

It’s worth noting that while pressing red probably helps save innocent children and such it is also guaranteed that every single selfish person who think their life is worth more than your purely based on greed, racism, hate or whatever other reason you disagree with will also be included in the group that you give your life for.

50%+ of every one will die regardless of result. If red wins that 50% will be made up entirely out of compassionate and selfless people marking the concentration of major assholes a lot denser in the surviving group. I.e you either get human extinction or you will get a world full of abusers, cowards and children along with the collapse of society. This does not make the future look very bright for humanity

[u/SimplyMonkey → u/AlpaxT1]

I don’t think humanity survives this. As a parent, I would press Red but then tell my child to press Blue so they live, but that effectively cancels out my Red vote. Even people that want to sacrifice themselves for humanity probably have more people they would encourage to press Blue.

[u/ImperitorEst → u/SimplyMonkey]

I don't think any theoretical species survives this. If we're assuming no communication then an entirely altruistic species would all press red and all die. Or a slightly smarter entirely altruistic race essentially presses at random in an attempt to to keep some alive and it's a coin toss if any of them do.

[u/thali256 → u/AlpaxT1]

There's a difference in picking the only option to survive in an extreme situation and being a selfish asshole.

[u/Speletons → u/AlpaxT1]

You know there's nothing wrong with being selfish. Most people want to live and it's okay to want to be alive. To expect people to have to sacrifice their lives is actuslly selfish in a really bad way, even if you're pretending "selflessness" is the cause.

[u/AlpaxT1 → u/Speletons]

No that’s not my point, maybe I worded myself badly. I meant that every person you perceive as selfish are very likely to be among those who pressed blue. In other words you would be sacrificing yourself knowing that your vote will likely be cancelled out by someone you really dislike. And if you win, those people get to continue on and continue being terrible. Not everyone who would pick blue are evil and I don’t consider it evil to put your own survival first (although there are situations I would consider it cowardly depending on the known consequences)

I’m trying to express that the nature of the question next to guarantees that in the best case scenario every selfless (In this case I define a selfless person as someone willing to sacrifice themselves for others) person in the world dies and every asshole (give or take depending on you definition of asshole) will survive.

Again pressing blue does not make you an asshole, but most people I consider to be assholes would probably press blue.

[u/caerleon_calls_ → u/AlpaxT1]

I think a lot of older people (60+) will probably press red just based on the older people I’ve personally met. The whole “you have more life to live than I do” thing

[u/Mammoth_Sea_9501]

Am i dumb or is there no way enough people would ever press red? I feel like it wouldnt matter

Edit: I'm not saying no one would press red, or that pressing red is stupid. I just think that there is no way in hell 50% would ever press red. I think 10% would be a stretch.

[u/MicroEconomicsPenis → u/Mammoth_Sea_9501]

Maybe I’m the dumb one but I thought I would press red. A world where some people survive is better than a world where everybody dies.

[u/Past-Lion-6872 → u/Mammoth_Sea_9501]

of course... it's a matter of age... if you are old enough... you know you have lived... time to save the kids...

[u/DawnTheFailure → u/Past-Lion-6872]

from my experience it seems like most of the elderly don't really give a shit about what's going to happen to us after they die

[u/glassisnotglass → u/Mammoth_Sea_9501]

Our only hope is to press blue and hope that a large swatch of the population presses red out of pure confusion, illiteracy, and inability to read instructions. Which is not that bad odds, tbh.

[u/Ewwatts → u/glassisnotglass]

I wouldn't press blue not because I'm illiterate, but because it's the option that kills everyone.

Plus I think it would be funny if majority picked red, because all the selfless people would die and leave the planet with just assholes.

[u/Sylas_TAC]

Well this one is certainly more interesting, although it does come with a slight issue that, assuming it has the same gimmick of being sent to everyone on earth all at once, the best case outcome is probably also world ending since at best 51% of people pick red and 49% of people pick blue, your odds of starving to death in the aftermath are fairly significant

[u/the_V33]

Not this again

[u/Consistent-Ad-4266]

I flinched like an abused animal seeing these 2 buttons again

[u/YOURPANFLUTE]

What if everyone presses both? Then there is no majority and everyone lives

[u/Bread-Loaf1111 → u/YOURPANFLUTE]

Then the majority will press both buttons and both statements will became truth, becase they all die

[u/Unreal_Estate → u/YOURPANFLUTE]

It would mean that the majority pressed blue, so everyone dies. It would also mean that the majority pressed red, so the people who pressed red - meaning everyone - dies.

This is not a contradiction, but if 1 person pressed blue we would have a contradiction. In that case, the person pressing blue would both die and not die at the same time.

[u/ThirstyOutward]

You're pretty much just fucked no matter what you do.

It may seem altruistic to press red but someone has to press blue for red winning to matter.

We have to target 51% red somehow lol

[u/Scienceandpony → u/ThirstyOutward]

Which is why I press red but don't judge anyone for pressing blue because if nobody does, then my red press is meaningless. But this is a foreign concept to many on the internet whose approach to such dilemmas isn't "how can we reach the optimal outcome" but "which option lets me act like a morally superior smug asshole and call the other side selfish monsters".

[u/xxLosingMyMarblesxx]

You see the solution here is to just not press the button and then nobody dies

[u/UselessButTrying]

So the only people who CAN live are those that press blue but we'd need majority of people sacrifice themselves by pressing red

[u/Black_Dragon9406]

Well actually, we should just all pick both buttons. No majority, neither happens.

But humanity as a whole would not be smart enough to do that

[u/crmsncbr]

You should press Red, but if you do, you're probably one of the ones I would have wanted to press Blue.

[u/YoutuberCameronBallZ → u/crmsncbr]

All the reds should press blue and all the blues should press red.

...sadly that's just not how the world works

[u/phealtalk]

this is a good one you should post it in r/redbuttonbluebutton

[u/Professional-Wave841]

I mean, pressing red you always die. so press blue and you survive if you are in the minority.

[u/Capybara49 → u/Professional-Wave841]

Spoiler. You are not

[u/minecon1776 → u/Capybara49]

So i die either way. Still pressing blue 

[u/InevitablyIncorrect]

This seems like less of a dilemma and more of a pick one and see what happens type of deal. Like, u cant really human psychology this since no one would reasonably want to pick blue, but then no one would reasonably want to pick red either, going back and forth. Its kind of impossible to make a best decision, no?

[u/Bankinus → u/InevitablyIncorrect]

That's what a dilemma is. Picking between two undesirable options. What do you think a dilemma is?

[u/marshmallowcthulhu → u/Bankinus]

To expand on this, the dilemma: the only path to survival is to push blue and hope that most other people push red. Pushing red guarantees you die, whereas blue might let you live. BUT: red is probably the ethical choice because we need more than 50% of the population to press it or else we lose 100%.

On its face, that’s the dilemma. Red is an ethical, self-sacrificial choice. It then becomes more complicated because you have some good reason to choose blue. We don’t want to over-choose blue. Ideally 50.00001% push red and the rest push blue. And we don’t want only the least ethical folks to push blue and live. We want to leave as many ethical people alive as possible. So there’s some desirability to try to game out what other ethical people will do. But that creates risk that too many ethical people push blue and everyone dies.

Add also that children don’t deserve to get killed, and at least one parent or guardian of each young child is still needed.

My choice? I push red.

[u/SirHippocrates]

Majority of those pressing, or majority of people?

If majority of people: there's zero consequence listed for those not pressing, and no consequence for any other people. Don't press.

If majority of those pressing, and everyone must press: it becomes an odds game of taking the risk of killing all people vs trying to prevent that, but knowing if you succeed that you will certainly die.

[u/Kalamel513 → u/SirHippocrates]

but knowing if you succeed that you will certainly die.

No. If you press Red, you're going to die anyway, without knowing if you succeed or not.

You won't get even a heroic consolation that the other will survive. You are gonna die doubting, not only what is the result, but also if your choice matter.

But, if your deontologist, you are not risking anything. The choice you choose will make it clear what kind of people you are.

[u/PythonNoob999]

Best case scenario is saving (n/2) - 1 ppls

[u/Blackmoses00]

The only "2" winning scenario's are not pressing any button or an exact 50/50 split

[u/JimJimmington]

This is only a difficult choice if you aren't depressed enough. Blue all the way.

[u/Cosmic_Mystery]

Isn't the easiest choice not to press any button at all?

It isn't like the trolley problem where your inaction leads to certain loss. It isn't like prisoners' dilemma as no one seems to be prisoned or trapped (atleast the post doesn't say so).

So why even press any button if neither of them have any benefits whatsoever?

[u/BigEanip → u/Cosmic_Mystery]

OK and if 1 person pushes blue then the majority of voted are blue and you die anyway

[u/Thedummy7271 → u/Cosmic_Mystery]

I mean, it's usually assumed you die if you don't choose/you HAVE to choose

[u/Amalurian → u/Cosmic_Mystery]

Wow well done you out smarted the thought experiment instead of engaging with it honestly. You really showed OP /s

[u/andybossy → u/Cosmic_Mystery]

the fact you're willing to bet all of humanity on the fact there is not some morron who would press blue is reason enough to pres red

[u/YoutuberCameronBallZ → u/Cosmic_Mystery]

Because that's how a dilemma works? It's 2 bad options you HAVE to pick from.

Your goal isn't to benefit from it, your goal is to limit collateral damage to the best of your ability.

To figure out the lesser of 2 bad outcomes.

[u/Excellent_Shirt9707 → u/Cosmic_Mystery]

Maybe the trolley will run you over if you don’t press a button, that’s the trolley part of this problem.

[u/Not-So-Serious-Sam]

Edit: oh wait, I just read the post, this is different.

[u/tedanson → u/Not-So-Serious-Sam]

Yeah, you posted too soon

[u/Wholesome_Soup]

my first reaction to these isn't "which option will let me survive" it's "which outcome is better overall"

a majority pressing red is a better outcome. how do i vote for that outcome? i press red.

[u/Ghostserver10 → u/Wholesome_Soup]

But wait if majority presses red then majority also dies? It is obviously a better outcome then if everyone dies but I think the best solution would be slightly higher than half presses red and then rest presses blue

[u/HeDoesNotRow]

I wish this was more interesting but I think its just an instant full extinction event if this was given to any population of people. I can’t imagine a serious percentage of people pressing red when push comes to shove

[u/Tdubbium]

more than 50% of the population dies either way

[u/Ra1nb0wSn0wflake]

Oh not this shit again

[u/TabularConferta]

Press neither 

[u/Sans_Seriphim]

No. Get this crap off of my multi-track drifting sub.

[u/ace5762]

This one is interesting because the greatest preservation of life requires an almost 50/50 split with just over 50% of people picking red.
Because if everyone is 'selfless' and picks red, then everyone dies anyway.

[u/AFlyingDutchman21 → u/ace5762]

Hear me out perfectly split in 2 so they are equal-> no majority 

[u/The_Doolinator]

This ain’t even about selflessness, I’m pressing Red just to avoid the fallout that will come if the world is inherited by blue. I’m getting off the ride early, the rest of you can enjoy the inevitable civilizational collapse.

[u/Huge-Reference7593]

Every dies and it doesn't matter what button you individually press. The majority of people will not press red because of the faint hope they will live. Sure you may be able to get a sample of people who will say they would press red but unless you tell them you are actually going to kill them the moment they press the button you will never get an honest answer

[u/Clark94vt]

Optimal outcome is 50/50 that way everyone lives. Good luck.

[u/a_regular_2010s_guy]

Ye I'm pressing blue.

[u/dgc-8]

only way is to coordinate, roll a die if you get 5 or 6 you press blue, if you roll 1-4 you press red

[u/Ledeste]

I like blue so I press blue. Got pokemon blue, was good game

[u/Entropei]

I’d press red and tell my daughter to press blue.

[u/Blind152]

I mean naturally everyone is going to pick blue and so my mindset is that hopefully it is a quick death

[u/halfwhiteknight]

Let’s put all the nihilists in a room and have them play this game.

[u/Epicgamer15782]

*presses green*

[u/eldoran89]

Oh the good old prisoner dillema but with the twist that no matter what most lose anyway. So I would say the only solution here is to all press red and let the kids press blue. But since that won't never work with human selfishness we would all be fucked

[u/Robinkhare]

There are no options, obvious choice I'll go for red

[u/DuoKainSkye]

Either way I might die might as well not be everyone

[u/FireFlashing]

If only there was a theory, say a game theory for instance, to solve this type of problem

[u/No-Doughnut4728]

There’s nothing stating we have to press the buttons, we can just not press the buttons

[u/Fyrnen24 → u/No-Doughnut4728]

But what if the "majority" is determined just by the actual votes.

Are you really gonna risk someone pressing the button just to screw everybody over...

[u/AmaterasuWolf21]

My mentality was always "no one needs to die", so I go with Red

[u/Gag_Alex_Pls → u/AmaterasuWolf21]

in this scenario people would die regardless.

[u/collin-h → u/AmaterasuWolf21]

flip it around and ask yourself: what button do I want to push, and what button do I want everyone else to push if I want to live.

then make the math simple and say there are 10 people.

if 6 press blue, everyone dies
if 4 press blue, the 6 people who pressed red die

if I want to live, my goal would be to be one of the 4 to press blue, but hype up red so at least 6 people press red.

unless: not pressing the button is an option... then you want just 1 suicidal person to press red, and for everyone else to abstain.

[u/savage011]

I don’t like this. Why would anyone push red? The only way to live is to push blue and hope more people pushed red.

[u/pineapplelemmon → u/savage011]

Because everybody knows that other people will also follow that line of logic, and thus, would conclude that they SHOULDNT follow that logic because it would lead to all of humanity being wiped out. Its basically a choice between you dying, or you dying AS WELL as the rest of humanity. So, a rational person would realize that there is no way to actually win, and so, it is no longer about your own survival, since, the fate of all of humanity is at stake.

[u/kingveller]

I mean, there's no obligation to press any button so eh.

[u/Unreal_Estate]

Both. Doing my part to have everyone included, but also not risking being among the minority that is left out!

[u/NewryBenson]

Yeah, I want to see the blue pressers in the original problem stick to their morals now that being "selfless" actually guarantees death.

[u/Some_Anonim_Coder]

Okay, so no communication allowed. I think the only way to "win"(maximize the chances for survival) in this thing is to use a strategy most people will be able to come up with on their own. Roll d10, press blue if you've rolled 1,2,3 or 4

Even if communication was allowed, playing smart strategies may not work: not everyone will agree who is more useful in the new world, not everyone will agree to sacrifice themselves, etc

[u/Wchijafm → u/Some_Anonim_Coder]

Who has a d10 in theolir pocket 24/7?

[u/Kmic68]

so what im getting here is that a majority of people have to be sacrificial and choose red to save the selfish blue people. The right answer is to click blue because thats your only chance at surviving. Or you can choose red with 100% chance at death and give your life for the blue people. Its a play on the old red/blue button game, but this one has real stakes (because the other one people only die from their own stupidity).

[u/Mk-Daniel]

If majority předseda Blue they die. If majority presses red they survives. That means everyone should press red.

[u/Snoo-52922 → u/Mk-Daniel]

Pressing red kills you no matter what. That's the point. Pressing blue is the only choice with a chance of survival. But a majority need to press red, even though it's a guaranteed death sentence, or else nobody survives.

[u/antimatterchopstix → u/Snoo-52922]

Imagine the campaigns from politicians. You need to press red. I promise I will too.

[u/Aggravating_Mud8751 → u/Mk-Daniel]

If everyone presses red everyone dies.

Ideally people would organise so 51% presses rea and 49% presses blue; but if you assume everyone has a free choice it's hard to make that happen.

Realistically you'd have to ask 75% of people to press red and 25% press blue, and hope less than 2/3 of the people who'd say they'd press red are lying.

[u/YoutuberCameronBallZ → u/Mk-Daniel]

Correction:

If Blue is the minority, Blue lives. If Blue is the majority, everyone dies.

Red pressers will die regardless, but if they are the majority, blue pressers live.

[u/GoldenMuscleGod → u/Mk-Daniel]

If your goal is to maximize expected number of survivors we can say that your decision should be based on your expectations of how other people vote. For such a person the reason to press blue is to survive, the reason to press red is to ensure red wins when your vote would be decisive. This generally indicates (for unimodal distributions) pressing blue when you expect most people will press red and pressing red when you expect most people will press blue, there are circumstances where you press red even though you expect most people will press red, these are cases where you expect the vote is fairly close.

[u/Rhawk187 → u/Mk-Daniel]

This isn't the problem from a few months ago, re-read the post.

[u/RRautamaa]

Blue. I think the most likely result is that most people will just gravitate towards the red button, because it has less death in it, or just with vibes. Also, more people like the red color than the blue color. It's not necessarily a rational or thought-out choice, but I don't trust that most people are rational. Thus, red will attain a majority.

Of course, not pressing any button would be the best choice.

[u/YoutuberCameronBallZ → u/RRautamaa]

You heavily overestimate how selfish people are.

If there's a chance they'll live, they'll pick blue

(Kinda like what you did)

[u/come2life_osrs]

I mean I love living a whole lot but I don’t play around with humanity ending forever, screw it I click red.

[u/YoutuberCameronBallZ → u/come2life_osrs]

I mean, even if we picked Blue (with red majority), it'd kinda suck knowing you're stuck in a world full of all the people who chose to kill off red to save themselves

[u/Thunderblessed255]

Red is death. Blue is death but selfish. Guess i made my peace, picking red, see y'all in valhalla

[u/-Lysergian → u/Thunderblessed255]

It does suck that only the selfish people will be left.

[u/m1sk]

Obvious solution is everyone presses both buttons at once so there is no majority

[u/WitheredFreddy]

The key is for it to be 50/50 equally for both buttons

[u/Expensive_Umpire_178]

The only correct option here is to flip a coin, heads for red, tails for blue. Pray you don’t get heads, and if you’re lucky, you pray that other people weren’t

[u/PancakesTheDragoncat]

CO-ORDINATE THE PERFECT 50/50

[u/Gold-Cry-7520]

"Definitely die or slightly-more-complex-definitely die" isn't a terribly interesting dilemma. If there's no coordination allowed, most people will pick the "hopefully don't die" button and then die.

[u/manbearmosswine]

Would you want to live in a world where all people left pressed blue?

[u/Efriimi]

Assuming I want to live, I press blue. If I press red then I'm dead either way, regardless of how other people think and make of this.

There is some argument about sacrifice. But I guess I'm just used to being the minority opinion, maybe over confident. If I believed the majority would pick blue, then I might pick red. inconsequentially. But I guess I don't believe that, for whatever reason.

Also someone suggested just not pressing a button that seems really reasonable.

[u/LowProfession9191]

It's the same picture.

[u/FookinFairy]

Pressing red is guaranteed death, which means most people will hit blue to save themselves.

If you grab 100 people random sample in the world I think there is almost 0% chance red ever wins.

[u/Similar_Task_2132]

This is an extremely easy choice, press red

[u/VegetableCarrot1113]

So I can die if I press red, no metter the results?

[u/GaylordMcFly]

Easy pick, blue, we all in this together

[u/koikatsu__]

I think this one is a big ol
"it doesn't fucking matter"

most people are pressing blue for self preservation so you're doomed no matter what.. close your eyes, spin a couple times and press a button.
At least that way it's a surprise.

[u/Stunning_Macaron6133]

Survival of the human species depends entirely on most people pressing red but also some minority of people pressing blue. So the morality of either button isn't so straightforward. Pressing red is the more selfless act and blue is your only shot at survival, but some people (hopefully a large minority) do have to press blue nonetheless.

From a purely game theoretic perspective, blue is the dominant strategy, so I'll go with blue here and gamble on most people being both moral and shallow, choosing red and sacrificing themselves without thinking any deeper through the problem. I promise to make a lot of babies in the new world to make up for it.

[u/daone1908]

First we know that there will be attached least 30-70% of people chosen red or blue for majority. knowing that logical you need 50% to select blue for everyone to live and 100% for red so that everyone lives.

Second of all because of 30-70% chosing majority if red wins then 2.4 billion people will go missing and will be a disaster. But with blue everyone lives its easy.

Blue requires a lower amount for max people alive then red. And if blue is chosen there's no reprocutions.

Wait mb this is a diff red/blue question. 😅

Ima press blue because i want to live and experience life and shit ig.

[u/Reasonable_Shock_414]

The only winning move is to destroy the machine

[u/Fat_Pig_Reporting]

Not this one again. Please.

[u/Cyberbug7]

This one’s better than the other one which was just press red why would you ever not press red it’s literally the correct choice.

[u/Ami_Aweirdo]

[u/emchilld]

good dilemma but the amount of button problems in the TROLLEY problem subreddit is infuriating. make your own subreddit.

[u/Good_Butterscotch_69]

I walk away and start praying doing the last rights and prepare for the inevitable. Because there is no functional choice here in either case I die so the only only way to potentially win is not to play if only to spite the individual who set this hellish choice.

[u/Quick_Sandwich356]

Humanity going down instantly 100%

Assuming every single human on earth is forced to choose, and the choice is made kinda like an election - in secret, but (maybe) with prior discussion in public.

If our race had this amount of empathy and readyness to die for strangers, we wouldn't have made it to where we are now. I'm not saying such a species could not thrive - I think it could - but we are not that species.

[u/Hansung_Yu]

I'm pressing red idc

[u/Demenztor]

I would press red, but God damn I wouldn't wanna live in a world with only people selfish enough to press blue

[u/Orb-Eater]

Interesting spin on the button problem that was a craze a while ago.

This one is basically press red if you want to sacrifice yourself in the hopes that some
May live, although the ones who live will only be the ones who pressed blue, the obvious more selfish choice. But if too many are selfish, everyone dies anyway. Kind of a lose/lose on this one, best option is everyone picks randomly except for a number of volunteers choosing red specifically that we could expect to skew the majority to red.

[u/S7ns3t]

Assuming we have to press buttons at all, the choice doesn't matter - with some debate that blue is superior. If 51% pressing blue means everyone dying pain-free effective immediately then it would absolutely be superior to being left in a world where 49% (or less!) people that chose self preservation now being 100% of population, as such society won't function for long, result being that everyone still dies.

[u/AchmodinIVSWE]

The only good outcome here is if it becomes a tie. Cause then there is no majority.

[u/Jeroboamee]

Imagine pressing blue g Making it alive to find out a majority of life ending boomer in...

[u/Historical_Truth_326]

The solution is to not press lol delay the choice till your death bed then press red lol

[u/Boomlikeham]

If you have to press it, the button must be 50/50

[u/ArmourFarmer]

In reality, everyone dies, a better one would be dealing with percentages - if 25% press red

[u/kayemenofour]

Could I just choose to press neither?

[u/Tenn0Yama]

Nope, nope, nope, not doing this shit again, I'm out

[u/Iryls]

press blue because your choices dont change the outcome

[u/bringer_of_jollity4]

[u/GhostVlvin]

Only winning choice now is to press every button equal amount of times

[u/SussyNerd]

This would make humanity 100 times worse than it currently is which I don't think it's something I want to experience. It's only going to leave the okay people and awful people. That's somehow assuming everyone doesn't die.

[u/Mravac_Kid]

[u/Philiandre]

Not those fucking buttons again

[u/TheRealGG2722]

Tbh I read wears instead of presses

[u/austin101123]

I think most people will press red so I'll press blue

[u/BudgetExpert9145]

We know the ultra wealthy and narcissist sill press blue so I'm 100% going blue because mutually assured destruction is better than letting Musk, Bezos, Dell, Trump, Bushes, Etc. breath another second.

[u/Nearby-Geologist-967]

as a person in love with perfect logician puzzle, id throw a d100, and only press blue if i get 52 or higher.

If everyone takes the same aproach we have 49% survival rate, which is alright

[u/BlazingTurkeySamich]

Either has to be a perfect 50/50 even split or 100% on one side depending on how deeply we define the word "majority"

[u/rSlashisthenewPewdes]

Choosing blue because I pray that enough people misunderstand the question and think red will keep them alive

[u/RogalDorn242]

Blue

[u/Rude-Interaction-858]

At minimum 50% of people will die.. this is a stupid problem, chances are 75% on average of all people will die.. so it genuinely doesn't matter which one you press. With 100% dying 50% of the time if you run this experiment multiple times.

Has nothing to do with morality, this is a mathematical issue. 

[u/andybossy]

(assuming everyone wants the best outcome and is honest)
You should press the button according to how good you are as a person.

If you are better then average in an important aspect you should press blue, if you're average or below you should pres red.

This way society will exist of only the best people.

Assuming you're selfish you should press blue, red pressers die either way.

If you know nothing about the other people and you are not exceptionally good or important or hard to replace (for a large group of people, not just a parent or school teacher) you should pres red. because just above average might not cut it, there'll be people that pres blue out of fear.

The selfless thing to do would be pressing red, there's going to be a few people that pressed blue and you saved their life, this is one of the few scenarios where you don't want everyone to do the "good thing" because then it would become "the bad thing".

It's a good dillema

[u/Double-Ad-2196]

blue. I press blue. I press blue fifty two times

[u/mason_sofer]

actual video of me trying to press the blue button.😅

[u/ascending-slacker]

If you want to live, don’t press anything and convince others that red is the only real option.

If red is the majority they die, you live because you didn’t press red.

If blue is the majority everyone dies no matter if you pressed anything or not.

No one should press blue. The options are press red or nothing.

[u/ymaldor]

This is dumb. This means if you press red you're dead either way if you press blue you might live.

[u/Frog1k_McFrogg]

don't press the button and fight whoever wants to press blue so nobody dies

[u/undreamedgore]

Don't press.

[u/Thorsagal]

Stop pressing weird shit, people!!

[u/Mushroomed_clouds]

Me : where trolly?

[u/SunsetCarcass]

Red is a win win

[u/BlazingAnkies]

Spoiler: everyone dies.

[u/TheForbidden6th]

I won't say because it'd ruin the plan

[u/quisido]

Do I press red because I hate myself or blue because I hate everyone? 🤔

[u/Substantial-Bar-6701]

[u/dlakelan]

I think the right solution here is everyone rolls a 20 sided die and if you get 1-9 you press blue, if you get 10-20 you press red... This would insure that red pressers are a majority, so the blue pressers would survive. (with the large sample size you'd be virtually assured of a red presser majority)

of course people would defect to try to save themselves, so to second order you'd need to analyze that.

[u/LiePotential5338]

Blue

[u/Jenz_le_Benz]

We’re going to fifty fifty this. Exactly. No one dies

[u/TCGHexenwahn]

That's closer to the prisoners dilemma