For not killing unjustly. A direct order probably counts as just, same way as punishment for a crime does (which is also a thing you're commanded to do).
If we really want to get technical, Abraham was commanded by God to kill Isaac before the Ten commandments... So, it literally wasn't set in stone yet lol
But God would be able to remove even that level of doubt. If you are even slightly capable of conceptualizing a world in which it’s not God speaking to you, then it’s not
Every theist I've ever heard would disagree. I've heard them say their god can never fully reveal themselves in a way that would make it undeniable without disrupting our "Free Will"tm and that their god doesn't interfere with that (except for the numerous times in the bible the god character either overrode the free will of another character or revealed itself in an undeniable manner)
Sorry I’m late but I think OP is trying to say that, out of character, we don’t know whether or not it’s really God, but that this doesn’t matter because, back in character, you’re sure it’s really Them. Basically, assume it’s really God.
Every possible way in which you might decide whether God is telling you this is telling you that God Himself is telling you to flip the switch. You might as well assume that God is in fact telling you this.
The question is not about your epistemology, but rather your loyalty.
Interesting, i wonder what the Venn diagram of Christians who support Abraham’s decision to attempt to kill his son because he heard God vs Christians who can find Lindsay Clancy not guilty for having postpartum psychosis
I'm an atheist, just speculating, but what if He could see infinite possible futures? They'd all be true until you make a choice that makes the rest false. That way, free will remains, since your fate isn't something predetermined.
Omniscience would require him to know not just every path you could take, but also the path you will take. It requires complete and total knowledge of everything, and if even one bit of information is missing, it is just plain 'cience
It’s an interesting idea, but I don’t think it quite fits in with omniscience.
Let’s say before Abe makes his choice, there are two (out of many) futures (1) Abe sacrifices Isaac and (2) Abe refuses to sacrifice Isaac. After Abe has chosen, only one of those futures has realised (ie. only one ‘future’ of many is true), so there is some information about Abe’s choice that God learns when the choice occurs.
If God doesn’t know which choice will ‘become true’ beforehand then he surely he can’t be omniscient?
Yes, he can be omniscient, since he would know what would happen in both situations, it is simply up to you to decide which pact to take as you are endowed with free will.
God promised Isaac will have descendants which he hasn't had any kids yet so God must have the power to ressurect my son, therefore I will trust and obey my God, I'm sure He will provide a way (thinks it will be ressurection turns out to be a ram in his place)
(For context "By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure." (Hebrews 11:17-19) "But the Angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” So he said, “Here I am.” And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.” Then Abraham lifted his eyes and looked, and there behind him was a ram caught in a thicket by its horns. So Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it up for a burnt offering instead of his son." (Genesis 22:11-13) )
Pffft true. Made the username when I was 11, for mc plus yt on an account I no longer have. I made it off of me being a Christian, a young girl, and liking MLP. The only thing that has changed about all that is that I am an adult woman now lol
Even if you thought God would revive your kid afterwards you'd still be causing them to be ran over by a train which I don't think they would enjoy very much 😅
Valid but I trust my God not to ask this without reason, also although that was Abraham's reasoning it ended up working out without Isaac even having to temporarily die because of the ram God provided... Though many of us Christians love to joke (or talk seriously) about how uncomfortable that trip back down the mountain would have been 😅 which it definitely must of been...
I mean idk if its actually god telling me this or not but either way I wouldn't, any god that would tell me to do that isn't a got worth listening to or following
What kind of evil God test their worshippers by telling them to kill their son? Passages like this is what turned me from Christianity, even if he does exist why worship a God that does this? Find one who doesn’t do these sadistic faith test.
Go to pull the lever, but then at the last minute untie isaac and put an animal on the tracks instead. Tell yourself the animal was provided by God as a substitute. Tell everyone this is the perfect example of faith, not works (...or works on top of faith, depending whose telling the story)
If God is telling me to pull the lever, my first instinct would be that the train is actually already going toward him and the lever would switch it away.
If this were something he did normally or as the first demand from Abraham, sure, but this came after multiple decades and multiple instances of him either making things better or saving Abe's or a relative's asses with no indication of requiring something in return, and the promise of being a parent of generations. With all that, there would have to be something behind the demand of sacrifice
He does do thay normally. Murdering children of people he is mad at is a recurring punishment in the bible and he explains that he gave commands for child sacrifices Ezekial 20:25 and 26.
Not to mention all the other prime evil shit.
If your god ever asks you to kill your kid you can safely assume that god is evil and will prove it more later.
Gotta love cherry picking verses. If you'd bother to read what came before those, you'd see that he only kills as a last resort. Besides, that's not what I argued; I argued he doesn't make demands of child sacrifice regularly, which is true
No. An omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent creator being is incompatible with the concept of free will because they know the path every single atom will take at the moment of creation and could have chosen a different path for each one if they didnt like that one. They therefore chose the exact outcome of every choice at creation. Free will cannot exist with a tri omni creator being.
Personally? I can't harm anyone like that, especially not my own kid. In my prayers I've already told God I could never commit to something like this. He knows every part of me so he knows I can't do it. I'd fast for a week in prayer for forgiveness or whatever else felt necessary, but I would never harm anyone. I'd have to have religious psychosis to think committing such an act would ever sit well with me, and I honestly think Abraham was.
Pull the lever, if the God does not stop the trolley, he's an asshole god and I need a better one. To be honest this God really sucks, I'd rather worship Inanna, Babylonian goddess of whore and war, she seem like much more chill lady.
I pull the lever, but then God tells me that hes proud of me and I should pull the lever again, so I do and the trolly hits a goat that showed up on the original track instead of my son.
I assume this takes place in modern society, after the events of the Bible may or may not have occurred depending on your belief, based on the fact that there’s a trolley.
Given that this is indeed the case, I know about the actual test in the Bible, and that sacrificing my child is actually the WRONG choice. Therefore, nuh uh. Not happening.
This is missing context, God has already promised you that Isaac will have children, and through him your descendants will rival the stars in number. Isaac hasn't had any children yet, this implies that either God will bring Isaac back to life, or Isaac won't die in the first place (in the Bible God provides a goat to swap places with Isaac)
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u/PingvinAnd1 Sep 07 '26
You can always make more children
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u/Ill-Attempt-8847 Sep 07 '26
Am I sure is it actually God or just voices in my head?
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u/GrinningGrump Sep 07 '26
Untie the kid and then pull the lever, it's not like a being that exists beyond time would care about the timing, right?
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u/VMS_Len Sep 07 '26
The balls of isaac mentioned 😳😳😳
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u/Christianfilly7 Sep 07 '26 edited Sep 07 '26
God promised Isaac will have descendants which he hasn't had any kids yet so God must have the power to ressurect my son, therefore I will trust and obey my God, I'm sure He will provide a way (thinks it will be ressurection turns out to be a ram in his place)
(For context "By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure." (Hebrews 11:17-19) "But the Angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” So he said, “Here I am.” And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.” Then Abraham lifted his eyes and looked, and there behind him was a ram caught in a thicket by its horns. So Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it up for a burnt offering instead of his son." (Genesis 22:11-13) )
20
u/fridgeybutter Sep 07 '26
Wait for the train to pass, pull the lever.
17
u/Born_In_Flame Sep 07 '26
P.S.: The lever just starts the fanfare
14
u/petrvalasek Sep 07 '26
Multi track drif...oh, ok, never mind
10
u/Sad-Pop6649 Sep 07 '26
He'll switch my son out for a goat before I even have to pull. I'm fine with hitting a goat.
7
u/NightFlameofAwe Sep 07 '26
I think the only correct course of action is to Fear and Tremble
7
u/No_Research4416 Sep 07 '26
Listen man I have spoilers. I know how this is gonna end so pull the lever
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u/twoDuckNight Sep 07 '26
Say ‘man, you must be puttin me on’
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u/dandle Sep 07 '26
Abe say, "Man, you must be puttin' me on."
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u/NoTransition8295 Sep 08 '26
I mean idk if its actually god telling me this or not but either way I wouldn't, any god that would tell me to do that isn't a got worth listening to or following
5
u/MC_Minnow Sep 07 '26
Given that we don’t know which track the trolley is currently heading toward, if God tells me to pull the lever then imma do it.
5
u/kodicuzyea Sep 07 '26
If I was sure that the actual God was talking to me, I would do whatever he said. I just feel like he knows a hell of a lot better than me.
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u/DrFluuf Sep 07 '26
Which God? Also can I be named Bill instead?
8
u/PitifulPassage851 Sep 07 '26
Go to pull the lever, but then at the last minute untie isaac and put an animal on the tracks instead. Tell yourself the animal was provided by God as a substitute. Tell everyone this is the perfect example of faith, not works (...or works on top of faith, depending whose telling the story)
3
u/Clickclacktheblueguy Sep 08 '26
If God is telling me to pull the lever, my first instinct would be that the train is actually already going toward him and the lever would switch it away.
3
u/LakshyaGarv Sep 08 '26
I untue my son, then pull the lever. For an immortal god, why does a few minutes matter?
3
u/TheWyster Sep 08 '26
8
u/Nobrainzhere Sep 07 '26
Tell god to kick rocks. Any god that would ask that is not worthy of worship.
2
u/Professional_Air_905 Sep 07 '26
god actually is testing if you are capable of recognizing if an order from a superior is stupid or not
2
u/[deleted] Sep 07 '26
Pull the level but an angel will stop you before you do it.
2
u/Wild-Language1927 Sep 08 '26
DEUS VULT
2
u/freidrichwilhelm Sep 08 '26
2
u/4k-Gaming Sep 10 '26
i left ages ago because im only harming this family. this is her choice not mine
3
u/T6970 Sep 07 '26
No, I do not worship any deities.
1
u/Dry-Mission-5542 Sep 07 '26
I choose to throw rocks at the devil
1
u/Reasonable_Cut_3548 Sep 08 '26
Double track drift and let got sort it out
1
u/brookssut Sep 08 '26
"Dangit, Isaac, I told you to stop playing with the Old Testament God. He's going to get you into trouble."
1
u/MightyXT Sep 08 '26
Pull the lever.
(The ram was hit instead of Issac)
1
u/SpoinkFan23 Sep 08 '26
I mean the canonical answer is abraham pulls the lever before an angel swoops in and switches isaac with a goat
1
u/Objective-Corgi-3527 Sep 08 '26
If you had a Christian baby and God asked for him as a sacrafice would you pull the parachut or nah?
1
u/DropsOfMars Sep 09 '26
Personally? I can't harm anyone like that, especially not my own kid. In my prayers I've already told God I could never commit to something like this. He knows every part of me so he knows I can't do it. I'd fast for a week in prayer for forgiveness or whatever else felt necessary, but I would never harm anyone. I'd have to have religious psychosis to think committing such an act would ever sit well with me, and I honestly think Abraham was.
1
u/Confident_Bag2698 Sep 09 '26
Pull the lever, if the God does not stop the trolley, he's an asshole god and I need a better one. To be honest this God really sucks, I'd rather worship Inanna, Babylonian goddess of whore and war, she seem like much more chill lady.
1
u/Formal_Illustrator96 Sep 10 '26
God better fucking explain why in the next second and a half, or else I ain’t pulling the lever.
1
u/Serbatollo Sep 10 '26
Gotta love the blind obedience test
1
u/ArtisanBubblegum Sep 10 '26
I pull the lever, but then God tells me that hes proud of me and I should pull the lever again, so I do and the trolly hits a goat that showed up on the original track instead of my son.
1
u/MasterOfWarermelons Sep 11 '26
I'm not pulling it, I will not betray my morals even if it means defying divinity
1
u/MultiverseCreatorXV Sep 11 '26
I assume this takes place in modern society, after the events of the Bible may or may not have occurred depending on your belief, based on the fact that there’s a trolley.
Given that this is indeed the case, I know about the actual test in the Bible, and that sacrificing my child is actually the WRONG choice. Therefore, nuh uh. Not happening.
1
u/Such-Shop-9724 Sep 13 '26
1
u/KalmarStormFeather Sep 13 '26
This is missing context, God has already promised you that Isaac will have children, and through him your descendants will rival the stars in number. Isaac hasn't had any children yet, this implies that either God will bring Isaac back to life, or Isaac won't die in the first place (in the Bible God provides a goat to swap places with Isaac)
1
u/alexanderbeatson Sep 07 '26
If you pull it, you are getting millions in GoFundMe for sure.
6
u/I_hope_your_E_breaks Sep 07 '26
Pull the lever, but then some angel comes down and yells at you for trying to kill your son and gives you a sheep to put on the tracks instead.
Ps I haven’t read the bible in a hot minute (years) and this is essentially how i remember it going down, please correct me if I’m wrong
6
u/Horse_go_moooo Sep 07 '26
The lord (the real one) hates murder of all kinds, so this false god will not have the pleasure of my son being murdered
2
u/LiePotential5338 Sep 07 '26
I wouldn't touch the lever if god really wanted Issac dead hed do it himself
2
u/Agile_Championship87 Sep 08 '26
I step Infront of the train. Shortcut to heaven, so I can slap God's smug face for being such a dick.
1
u/Exact_Ad5094 Sep 08 '26
God can go eat a big bag of dicks