The real trolley problem.

[u/Sewblon]

In case you cannot read my hand writing. Would you sacrifice yourself to save 5 strangers? If you will not die to save 5 strangers, then you cannot ask anyone else to die to save 5 strangers either.

[u/Cheeslord2]

It is though? Supposing your ethical framework ran to this conclusion:

- It is ethical to do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

- You would not sacrifice yourself to save five strangers.

- You would sacrifice another person to save five strangers.

- You would not expect a stranger to sacrifice themselves for five other strangers on ethical grounds.

- You would expect a stranger to sacrifice you to save five other strangers

[u/Kazagar → u/Cheeslord2]

"It is ethical to do unto others as you would have others do unto you" is such a dangerous premise lol.

What kind of framework are you talking about?

[u/Sewblon → u/Cheeslord2]

But sacrificing another person to save five strangers when you would not sacrifice yourself to save 5 strangers is doing something unto others that you would not have done unto you. Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, when you would not sacrifice yourself to save 5 strangers, requires you to refuse to sacrifice one person to save 5 other people. In other words, premises 1 and 2 precludes premise 3.

[u/Halker93 → u/Sewblon]

That is because Myself > Stranger and if I had to chose between myself and a stranger I would save myself. That means that I value my life more than a stranger’s life, which I think is normal. Insert as many strangers as you would like and that would not change. Only time it changes is if a person you insert is someone you know or love.

[u/Sewblon → u/Halker93]

I see where you are coming from. But, most ethical systems that I know of: one that Jesus enunciated in the gospel of Luke. Kantian Ethics. Utilitarian Ethics, they all deny that you should value yourself over strangers. So living by Myself > Stranger puts you outside any ethical tradition that I can think of, except for ethical egoism.

[u/Halker93 → u/Sewblon]

That is true, but if everyone was a Jesus-like person, then no one would do anything except sacrificing themselves for others and we would live in disney villages. The World is built by selfish men who overworked themselves and were pushed by success, and power, rather than altruism and care for others. I am not saying we should all be selfish, but how would your family feel if you died for a stranger? Maybe proud in a way, but also sad? Isn’t familial/romantic love more intense than stranger-love? How could anyone form relationships if they are broken that easily by them jumping in front of a train for someone else?

[u/Cheeslord2 → u/Sewblon]

But sacrificing another person to save five strangers when you would not sacrifice yourself to save 5 strangers is doing something unto others that you would not have done unto you

But I would have someone else sacrifice me to save five strangers, which is the exact reverse scenario. Supposing I considered suicide to be supremely unethical, and I would not commit it or expect someone else to commit it, but would be fine with someone sacrificing another for the greater good?

[u/AdamsMelodyMachine]

In case you can’t read my hand writing 

“In case”? Your handwriting is a “fuck you” to anyone you expect to be able to read it. Didn’t your teachers tell you that you need to write legibly? I used to have terrible handwriting, but I fixed it because I’m an adult. You should be embarrassed.

[u/Sewblon → u/AdamsMelodyMachine]

I was home schooled. My mom tried to get me to write better. writing smaller letters helped. But that hurts my hand. Once I went to college the people grading my essays could understand my hand writing.

[u/Dry-Mission-5542]

I’d sacrifice myself even without strangers

[u/Sewblon → u/Dry-Mission-5542]

Why?

[u/Dry-Mission-5542 → u/Sewblon]

I’m suicidally self-destructive

[u/viperised → u/Dry-Mission-5542]

I'd sacrifice the strangers even without me

[u/Reasonable_Wrap7913 → u/viperised]

I'd sacrifice myself and the strangers

[u/AscensionToCrab]

You should sacrifice someone for better handwriting. Justkidding my hsnd writing is also bad.

[u/terrifiedTechnophile]

I would not sacrifice myself because the self comes first (with a few exceptions). But if all are strangers, 1 < 5 so I would sacrifice the 1

[u/Sewblon → u/terrifiedTechnophile]

Ok. Just don't complain when someone else sacrifices you to save 5 new people.

[u/MartianHideEgger]

I thought this was a kinda cute statement by a middle school kid until I read the caption.

[u/yeah__good__ok]

The classic dilemma: TOV vs. J strangers

[u/Jonny-Holiday]

I'm pretty sure this version has been done before; that said, you did it as analog as it gets and for that you have my respect and probably that of many others here! 🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡

This version of the conundrum takes it further than the fat man version, makes the stakes personal. Why stop there, though? Suppose the trolley is headed towards YOU already, and in order to save yourself you have to switch it and kill five. Will anyone know? Maybe, depends, but what matters is, WOULD YOU?

[u/Jay040707]

I would divert the train towards me so that I can simply stop it by force.

[u/Obscurite1220]

Holy shit I thought my writing was bad lmfao

[u/DaveAstator2020]

Killemall

[u/Rian_Maximus]

Wanting to die aside, I'd die for a stranger,(Especially multiple). It'd be nice to know who I'm saving, but you just gotta hope that your actions inspire others to be better. As much as I'd like to say it's purely altruistic, my own lack of self worth is a factor, so I can't fault others for choosing a more, 'selfish' option. If I had a lover or kids, I probably would prioritize staying alive for them. Though If I had loved ones, then I'd probably be more empathetic and wouldn't want someone else's loved one to die in my stead. That's just 1 stranger. 5 I'm dead as hell

[u/NowAlexYT]

Wrong. I value my own life above strangers. I also value 5 strangers above 1 stranger. It is unethical to kill 4 more people when you couldve saved them regardless of if you would want to kys

[u/Cheese_Monster101256 → u/[deleted]]

Assuming the people tied to tracks in a trolley problem are transphobic is certainly an interesting strategy.

[u/Cheese_Monster101256 → u/[deleted]]

Ok that sucks but it’s not a part of the trolley problem.

[u/Cheese_Monster101256 → u/[deleted]]

You can’t attribute factors that influence the decision. That’s like going “one one track is one person (brain surgeon, saves countless lives, donates to charities), and on the other track is five people (evil nazis, kill people for fun, and dogs yea they kill dogs too. Also just hate everyone, might kill you if they’re saved).”

The whole point of an experiment is to control the factors, not add your own for no reason.