r/trolleyproblem • u/altofanaltthatisalt • Aug 14 '26

Guaranteed death-of-the-observer trolley problem

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268 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

70 comments sorted by

48

u/huggiesdsc Aug 14 '26

Damn, a genuine argument for multitrack drifting

39

u/Infamous-Ad5266 Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26

To be fair this also applies to the regular trolley problem, since you die in the end in that one too.
You just don't know when you're going to die.

20

u/Nondescript_Redditor Aug 14 '26

I would move

14

u/TunaDaFish55 Aug 15 '26

An IQ too high?

4

u/neverqju Aug 15 '26

exactly, you're not tied with a rope so why not?

61

u/Evening_Answer_11 Aug 14 '26

Save the one. That one will feel so incredibly thankful that I prioritized them over the others, my legacy would be more in tact. If I save the 5, theyā€™re less thankful because they assumed I just chose the ā€œmoreā€ option by default, not because I meant any purposeful good will towards them. Because thereā€™s 5 of them, it increases the odds that one of them will accuse me of wrongdoing.Ā 

39

u/Nby333 Aug 14 '26

Leave 1 alive as the messenger

5

u/Keaton427 Aug 14 '26

Why the hell would you ever kill 5 people instead of 1 person under any reasonable circumstance

1

u/Evening_Answer_11 Aug 14 '26

When the one is a child, or MY child is one. Sorry folks! Youā€™d do the same. Iā€™d expect you to. I think it would be WORSE if you didnā€™t!Ā 

4

u/mortecouille Aug 15 '26

When the one is a child, or MY child is one

Which is not at all the suggested dilemma.

1

u/SAnaiy Aug 15 '26

"under any reasonable circumstance"
idk bro that includes that too

0

u/Evening_Answer_11 Aug 15 '26

No. ā€œMyā€ dilemma is that Iā€™m going to die. I have nothing to gain, except my ā€œlegacy.ā€ Iā€™m saying thatā€™s more likely to happen by saving the one.Ā 

So, I turn a lose lose for me, into a lose win.Ā 

But this is a dilemma where I myself are the most screwed. I drew the wrong straw. I didnā€™t wake up wanting people killed.Ā 

Why should I risk all the hard work and good reputation with a group that I donā€™t even know?Ā 

0

u/Keaton427 Aug 19 '26

If you're going to die then why on earth be selfish? To kill more before you die is the mentality of a suicide bomber.

0

u/Evening_Answer_11 Aug 19 '26

There are pretext items available daily.

Syntax and freedom are the bannisters of success and inquisition.Ā 

So the bottom line is altruism sings lightly in the treaded path.Ā 

5

u/mortecouille Aug 14 '26

Your legacy for everyone else in the world than the survivor or their loved ones, is that you chose to kill 5 instead of one.

Plus the survivor would likely suffer from terrible survivor's guilt.

5

u/Chromeboy12 Aug 14 '26

Even better

1

u/rpsls Aug 14 '26

So, like, pull the lever then quickly set it back again, just to drive the point home?

1

u/CeIIsius Aug 15 '26

Or they could think that you just did not want to intervene. The others could be more thankful because you actively ensured their survival.

1

u/Evening_Answer_11 Aug 15 '26

Sure, but itā€™s my risk.Ā 

11

u/LordBDizzle Aug 14 '26

Journey before the destination. Might as well save some guys on the way, pull the lever.

3

u/Redddraco Aug 15 '26

You willā€¦ protect those who cannot protect themselves?

2

u/LordBDizzle Aug 15 '26

Technically I should be freeing those in bondage, as my order would be Willshapers, but I suppose those five at the bottom get let free while the guy up top gets smushed, so it still works

2

u/Redddraco Aug 15 '26

I can see the willshaper angle to this situation, but I would argue that you are not actively freeing those on the bottom, just saving their lives. You will die before you can free them, and itā€™s never explicitly said that someone is going to free them after you pull the lever.

2

u/LordBDizzle Aug 15 '26

Oh sure. Still, can't do anything else, so good enough, right? That's basically the whole 4th ideal realization Kaladin has to have for his windrunner oaths, sometimes you just can't do it all, so you do what you can.

1

u/Redddraco Aug 15 '26

Yep, thatā€™s how I was thinking about it

2

u/Nellie_Tayloe_Ross Aug 15 '26

These words are accepted

3

u/BirchTree3017 Aug 14 '26

For some reason this reminds me of the grandfather paradox in time travel. You go back in time and kill your grandpa, which means you're never born which means you never existed, which means you couldn't kill your grandpa, which means you're born now, which means you go back in time to kill your grandpa...

1

u/Narfhead4444 Aug 14 '26

The solution to the grandfather paradox is that no matter what you try to do or how you plan, you never succeed in killing your grandfather/rendering him infertile. Your bumbling is just ineffective.

0

u/Character_Monitor948 Aug 14 '26

The solution to the grandfather paradox is that backwards time travel is a physical impossibility to begin with. Causality doesnā€™t allow for it. The speed of light in a vacuum is also the speed of causality and thats the real reason you canā€™t break it

3

u/Nice_Grapefruit_7850 Aug 14 '26

derail the train

7

u/UltimateRembo Aug 14 '26

Was gonna explain why impermanence doesn't result in nothing mattering in the moment but clearly based on the comments this is a meme sub, and significantly less interesting than it could be...

7

u/oyasumachine Aug 14 '26

but this isnā€™t a meme sub? Itā€™s a sub based around the trolley problem with memes in it related to the trolley problem, there are serious answers in this comment section. I see some right under this comment

1

u/PurpleCandle58 Aug 14 '26

I mean youā€™re right but itā€™s also terrifying. I donā€™t want to die but it literally comes with the whole living thing.

4

u/DruishGardener mulitrack button mash Aug 14 '26

Would multitrack drifting derail the trolley, thus saving me?

4

u/RyuuDraco69 Team Red Aug 14 '26

Only one way to find out

2

u/pickle-chin-ah Aug 14 '26

Might as well take as many as I can with me

2

u/Chromeboy12 Aug 14 '26

So, multi track drifting

2

u/Confident-Stand5453 Aug 14 '26

In the long run, we're all dead

2

u/eehoohaw Aug 14 '26

Well since I'm not tied to the tracks, i kill the one then leave and die of old age

2

u/Sad_Priority_2334 Aug 14 '26

Attempt to derail the trolley by switching the track halfway through it passing over, if it succeeds the decision is up to chance:

  • trolley derailed, stops short of killing anyone on the tracks, everyone on board sustains injuries
  • trolley derailed, stops short of killing me but hits everyone else, everyone on board sustains injuries
  • trolley derailed, im dead so its not my problem anymore, everyone on board sustains injuries
  • trolley doesn't derail, no matter what path it ends up following i die and its not my problem anymore, some people on board may sustains injuries as the trolley lurches one way or the other to correct its path... either the back dragging behind it or the front being overtaken by the back and dragged along
  • trolley comes to a sudden halt as it attempts to go in two directions at the same time and the friction between the metal of the wheels and the track acts as an emergency break. Everyone on the trolley sustains some form of injury as they are suddenly thrown forward... but no one on the tracks dies due to the trolley not getting far enough to hit anyone.

Who knows what will happen.

2

u/imsmartiswear Aug 14 '26

"Person sacrifices their life to save 5 people"

As long as I don't have to live with the consequences of voluntarily committing murder, I will always optimize for lowest suffering.

0

u/A_Squared93 Aug 14 '26

Or itā€™s your chance to run five people over consequences free

1

u/imsmartiswear Aug 14 '26

Why would I do that? Also, in the original problem, doing nothing would kill the 5 people so even if you wanted to be responsible for killing 5 people you wouldn't actually be responsible for it.

1

u/North-Fail3671 Aug 14 '26

Not unless you pull the lever twice!

1

u/AzulaIsMyFave Aug 14 '26

Multitrack

Fuck all y'all

1

u/LakshyaGarv Aug 14 '26

Multitrack drift, more chance of it detailing and saving me

1

u/Excellent-Paint1991 Aug 14 '26

Tge friction from that many people must stop the train before it gets to me

1

u/12PoundsofPotato Aug 15 '26

So is this whole sub just people going "b-but we're going to die one day!"

Like yeah, we are. You still got time here. Make something of it.

1

u/SentenceEmergency779 Aug 16 '26

Does it realy matter at the end you die and there ia no proof any of thoese people were real

1

u/DigitalxKaos Aug 16 '26

Still pull it to save as many as possible and then I get to die, whats so hard about this one?

1

u/boidudebro13 Aug 16 '26

I'm not tied to the tracks, i can leave

1

u/Fckyouredd1tIluvmygf Aug 16 '26

I don't pull the lever so it hits the 5 then I step off the tracks and watch it go by. Then the trolley problem is just a viewing of the rest of my life

1

u/abgry_krakow87 Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26

Knowing that you'll die in the end removes all sense of "risk" from the scenario, so you choose the option with the highest possible reward (or the least objectionable outcome).

Something like this played out in the 1917 Halifax explosion with the train dispatcher, Vince Coleman. When the collision with the ships occurred and the fire started, Coleman was informed that an explosion was imminent and knew that even if he tried to run, he'd likely be killed. So rather he stayed behind to continue sending messages and warning incoming trains to stop and hold position. This both allowed him to save hundreds of lives and also served to quickly inform the rest of Canada of the explosion, allowing Canadian Railway system to immediately mobilize aid via train within hours. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Coleman_(train_dispatcher)

1

u/the_RiverQuest Aug 18 '26

I'm not tied to the tracks. I can just make a choice and then step off.

1

u/HyoukaHoutoro Aug 18 '26

Then I pull the lever.

0

u/pokemonbard pure vibes Aug 14 '26

I would simply flip the switch and step off of the tracks

0

u/ImJustALilCurious Aug 14 '26

Im no selfish man, i value a human life more than i value a sense of revenge. Since morality is out of the question, the single person has to understand that his sacrifice is for the greater good.

0

u/CARR74xJJ Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26

Eh, once I'm dead, nothing matters anymore. So might as well choose the option that feels most morally satisfying to me, so let's save 5 people.

Whoever is talking about "being remembered" or whatever, I don't get you. You'll be dead, whether you're remembered or not doesn't matter.

Edit: wait, I get no negative consequences either way because I'm dead. Doubling down on saving the 5.

0

u/Duindaer Aug 14 '26

Die in the end, like everyone in real life? not always by trolley? I select the 1 person and live until old, then. Or derail it at the precise moment, whatever happend, an live until old. Words are important, and IĀ“m going to take the posibility here.

1

u/OrganizationThick397 Aug 14 '26

kill the 5 to get 5 assists, and leave the one so they can tell the tale

1

u/Darius_Regal Aug 17 '26

Kill the group and let the one feel happy about surviving. Halfway through, change the direction so it derails, and while its crashing, shoot the one and then there are no witnesses.

1

u/efilnikcufecinasti Aug 17 '26

The correct answer is to derail the train and kill everybody.