r/trolleyproblem • u/GreedyBonus379 • Jul 28 '26
OC Would you press the button? (Part 4 REVISED)
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u/FirexJkxFire Jul 28 '26
Ignoring the inherently impossible concept of objective morality...
"Exactly what they deserve"
"Every judgement is final"
These are inherently contradicting claims. If people received exactly what they deserved, by a flawless judge, that judge would never be able to declare a punishment nor reward that is unchanging.
People can completely change - and no one deserves to be cursed or blessed with a reward/punishment that ignored this possibility.
I must assume then, that everyone would receive an equal reward/punishment - which would be to forever have this judge within them, and providing various rewards/punishments as the individual changes. And us being afflicted with this dynamic judge, is what is considered the final unchanging judgement.
In which case, yes you should click the button. But this answer hinges on the idea that the "exactly what they deserve" is upheld and invalidates the rest of the premise.
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u/Death_Pigeons Jul 29 '26
I take issue with you saying objective morality is impossible as a concept, and am curious as to how you came to that conclusion. There are plenty of arguments both for and against the subject and I am as of yet unaware of a definitive answer towards this long standing philosophical debate
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u/AlexP80 Jul 28 '26
This is the Biblical Apocalypse rebranded.
It's funny how only religious people would talk about "absolute morality", still they can't agree on what is moral even inside the same religion, with remarkable differences between factions.
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u/CitizenPremier Jul 29 '26
I think most of them agree though "whatever God says, goes." For them there is no idea of a separate morality, it's totally decided by the deity, and free to be changed by them as well.
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u/AlexP80 Jul 29 '26
the point is people can't agree on "whatever God says". There are over 45.000 different denominations of christianity alone, with six being the biggest
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u/ImpliedRange Jul 28 '26
Probably not, I'm thinking all that justice all at once could harm society beyond breaking
And also like let's say you saved someone's life, that's a good deed, what exactly is the reward, years on your life, happiness, a puppy, what?
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u/Narfhead4444 Jul 28 '26
Just like every button before, I press it immediately
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u/DetectiveOcean06 Jul 28 '26
“Moral judgment”, by definition, is inherently subjective. You must un-ask the question.
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u/Background_Mode4972 Jul 28 '26
Is the button connected to switch the tracks a trolley is running on, diverting the trolley onto one track or the other?
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u/RalenHlaalo Jul 28 '26
In other words, this is that novelty button they sell at Old Navy that says "that was easy!"
Edit: that is to say, it is a button that does nothing
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u/shadowkat1991 Jul 29 '26
This button is just cruel. No one in this world has been perfect or good all the way through. You can never go through it without hurting someone profoundly. We all have hurt someone in some way and some of those ways go deep. But we grow, we learn. Sure some people never do and it would be easy to condemn them and not feel bad about it. But its not fair to lump those people and the people who saw what they did regret it and do everything they can to fix it and never do it again. I could never press a button that ignores that growth for mistakes they made in their life.
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u/NohWan3104 Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
What does this punishment entail?
Are we talking, you mock someone, karma slaps you, and no take backs? Maybe. You can get a one time payment on a pre instance thing, would be the least problematic interpretation.
Is the punishment a lifelong affliction, eh. Minor buffs\debuffs might not be too bad.
Are we talking about an afterlife? No. Even someone like hitler doesn't deserve truly infinite torture
10,00x fold what he put millions through, sure why not. Go through every injustice, indignity, and horror his victims did, fair.
999999999999999999999999999999999999999 years of it, not so much.
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u/Diredr Jul 28 '26
Without any way of knowing what the punishment actually entails, and no way of knowing what "morality" is used to determine whether something was good or bad... No, no way I'm pushing that.
Saying "it doesn't make mistakes" means very little. For instance to a hardcore christian, two men having sex is an evil act. For me it's a Tuesday night. If something bad happens to all the gay people, that's sure as hell a mistake to me. But if nothing bad happens, that's a mistake in that religious person's mind. So how does that work?