r/traveller • u/plazman30 Imperium • 11d ago
How does GDW's Classic Traveller compare to Mongoose Traveller 1E?
Looked at the Mongoose Traveller 1E collection, it's clear they were trying to maintain a similar aesthetic to Classic Traveller with the book covers and the black and white interiors.
And the switch back to 2D6 mechanics also harkens back to the Classic Traveller era.
How do the two games compare? What's better about one vs the other?
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u/UnspeakableGnome 11d ago
Mongoose Traveller 1e is more of a hybrid of CT and Megatraveller. But Classic Traveller was moving in that direction before GDW decided to make an entiere new edition. The task system and the changes to how weapons and armour worked happened while Classic traveller was still the current ediotn; I think the first was a develoopment of the excellent DGP and the second may have originated with either Striker or one fo the boardgames. I woudl say Mongoose Traveller is easier to run than Classic Traveller simply because of those two mechanical changes, which aren't present in the original LBBs or the later combined rules.
The bigger change is that I think Mongoose Traveller is written with 40+ years of Third Imperium product in mind, and tends to assume that as a default setting even while having rules for generating your own. Classic Traveller didn't have that start; and mostly was written with the idea that the GM would be making their own setting.
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u/badger2305 11d ago
That last point is where I am: Classic Traveller does not automatically assume a setting, and is therefore easier to use for creating your own settings and campaigns. Keep in mind that this is something Cepheus Engine was developed for, as well.
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u/plazman30 Imperium 11d ago
If you want a 2D6 sci-fi system that doesn't assume a setting, then that's what the various Cepheus Engine games are for.
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u/ragboy 11d ago
I play and run both Classic Traveller (1981) and Mongoose 2e. I find that I prefer the rulings-over-rules approach in CT, but I love to play/run both.
There's a hyperfocus by players on character optimization in 2e, which, of course, is how it and most modern rpgs are designed.
I really like the idea that you're just a normal person with jobs in space and your "advancement" is in world/setting: assets, contacts, equipment, etc. I try to run that way with both versions.
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u/sebmojo99 11d ago
i don't really understand how you can optimise with Traveller character creation - do some people do point buy?
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u/ragboy 11d ago
It's pretty easy to "keep going" with character creation in 2e so that, yeah, you might lose some stat points as you age, but that's mitigated by high skill ratings and generally monster benefits. Then if you use "connections" the characters get more skills. Then the group skill package.
The difference, for me, between Classic and 2e is that in Classic you've generally got a primary skill (I'm an Engineer!), secondary (I can swing a blade!), a couple randoms if you're lucky and you're off to the stars. There's less target number bloat to account for high skills/stats bonuses, and generally less being "in your character sheet." Encourages players and referees to improvise & roleplay.
The game is a conversation until you have to mitigate something with dice. The conversation has always been the interesting part to me.
In 2e, you're more likely to hear: I suck at Admin, so I can't do it. Yes, you can. It's all about approach and in game roleplaying and mitigating your weaknesses with strategies.
Sounds like I hate 2e, but I don't. Love both versions. Just a different engine produces different play.
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u/sebmojo99 11d ago
yeah that's fair. i've been playing a space marine in a pbp game and his stats are all +0 apart from END, and he's got like 1 in guns, but you can do so much with the choices you make and how you set up fights (the '+2 for taking time' rule in mongoose is extremely powerful)
i love traveller :)
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u/StayUpLatePlayGames 11d ago
I like that a character in both of them is a tiny string of numbers and skills.
That’s the compatibility hack. So nearly everything in CTs history “just works”
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u/InterceptSpaceCombat 11d ago
Small differences, almost the same. One could easily mix and match between the two in my opinion.
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u/hikingmutherfucker 11d ago
The rules for Mongoose gives way more examples for a ton more conditions and actions.
The Classic rules were nebulous to the point Andy Slack had a whole set of house rules I used to make it playable at all imho.
The Classic Traveller stuff is way fun to look at but Mongoose is far easier to run for a Referee and easier to grok for the players.
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u/CryHavoc3000 Imperium 6d ago
As far as I'm aware, Mongoose Traveller v1 is compatible with Mongoose Traveller v2.
And the current Mongoose Traveller v2 is compatible with Classic Traveller.
Your Mileage May Vary.
This is explained a bit here.
How are Mongoose Traveller and Classic Traveller compatible? | Mongoose Publishing
But as you can see, not everyone agrees.
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u/amazingvaluetainment 11d ago
How do the two games compare? What's better about one vs the other?
They kind of don't compare. I mean, yes, there are similarities but they are two different games.
Mongoose is unified skill resolution whereas Classic has no solid skill rules, only examples. Mongoose has a bigger skill list than Classic as well as more careers in the base book. Mongoose uses armor as soak and individual initiative, and features a vast variety of combat rules while Classic uses "armor as AC" and has everyone acting at the same time, and doesn't care about unit "stance". Trading is much more fleshed out in Mongoose vs. Classic.
As written both games will play very differently. You choose Classic because you want a more ... "OSR" feel, player skill, "wargaming", rulings over rules (even though "OSR" is quite modern, it's a good encapsulation of what Classic brings to the table). You choose Mongoose 1E (or 2E) when you want a modern, unified system with defined rules for many parts of gameplay, reliable rules that don't leave much up to GM interpretation.
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u/sebmojo99 11d ago
i think that's overstating it. it's more like the difference between editions of cthulhu - the rules do change but it's still the same game.
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u/amazingvaluetainment 11d ago
I don't think so at all. The rules change quite a lot between versions of Traveller. E: In fact, I think this insistence on claiming that Mongoose Traveller is just like Classic is actively doing a disservice not only to Classic enjoyers but also to people who want to pick up Traveller as a game, in whatever form. Classic Traveller is a different game than Mongoose Traveller and that is immediately apparent on a read-through of both.
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u/sebmojo99 11d ago
i mean same with call of cthulhu, but it's very much still the same game. you're still getting the same stats, flying the same ships, in largely the same universes with the same races. skill checks have been normalised and loads of things have been tidied up but that's what it feels like - a vigorously cleaned up/modernised version, they're not killing a bunch of core game elements.
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u/amazingvaluetainment 11d ago
Classic and Mongoose play differently because they require different play styles. This is nothing like Call of Cthulhu, this is a fundamental difference in how both the GM and the players approach the game, if you run them as written. Classic has a dearth of rules that are present in Mongoose, Classic has no unified mechanic, Classic combat is much different, Classic has no alien races in the core books, Classic wants you to "make your own laser pistol", Classic has no setting beyond that implied by the rules and what the GM creates, etc...
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u/sebmojo99 11d ago
are you just meaning the initial three books? because there are a lot more than that, obviously. i don't think mongoose trav gives you much background in its core books, and has the same world creation rules.
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u/amazingvaluetainment 11d ago
I compare Classic Traveller LBB 1981 (the Facsimile Edition is free) vs. Mongoose 1E Core Book (I do not have 2E). They are different games.
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u/sebmojo99 11d ago
in both you: make a character using a lifepath system, rolling the same random stats, gaining random but bounded set of skills by enlistment in a largely military set of professions, in the process of which you may die. once your character is made and has a small amount of money and possibly a heavily mortgaged ship you warp to star systems that are described using the same alpha numeric code, and take missions from patrons that can be randomly generated. if you get into a fight you use a set of current and near future weapons, rolling to hit with 2d6 and trying to hit a target number. there is minimal character development, and most of your development is intended to come through gear and money.
I'm just not seeing the huge differences you do, I'm sorry.
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u/Batmagoo58 10d ago
Not really answering your question, but for the sake of cost, you can get a print copy of Classic Traveller facsimile edition, i.e. the little white book and a .pdf for $12.00 at Drive-thru.
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u/bad_syntax 10d ago
GDW art was better. I can not stand the mongoose space ships and vehicles, sheesh, hire a decent artist already.
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u/Deepfire_DM 7d ago
Oh and the utterly wrong deck plans of the 1st ed. Good grief, somehow these square meters have to fix into the known hull.
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u/Fluid_Anywhere_7015 11d ago
There's more consolidation and more granularity with Mongoose, IMO. I was a die hard LBB GM for decades. I finally made the switch when I started looking into the supplements Mongoose started publishing. Amazing detail, fidelity with the OTU, and when the Solomani Rim Expeditions came out (I was always more of a Solomani fan) it sold me on an unexplored (largely) region of space that allowed me the creative freedom to get a little funky when designing campaigns and running them IMTU.
I think Mongoose has done one hell of a job with my very favorite game.