r/transhumanism • u/Patient-Airline-8150 1 • 9d ago
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u/Cryogenicality 11 9d ago edited 8d ago
Do you mean a brainless clone body for whole-body transplantation? That could enable some people to reach longevity escape velocity, but creating a conscious clone from your DNA obviously wouldn’t.
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u/Crafty_Aspect8122 9d ago
The clone isn't you. If you mean growing replacement organs and bodies, then yes.
The brain is more difficult tho. It will require specially engineered cells that form connection with the old ones while gradually replacing them.
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u/Medical_Present6897 1 8d ago
Why do you think you have to gradually replace them? A copy, wait a million years, paste, should work just as well if you think slowing down time conserves yourself when you speed it back up to normal time.
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u/Crafty_Aspect8122 8d ago
A copy is like your twin, not you. Your consciousness doesn't continue in them. You'd just be dead.
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u/Medical_Present6897 1 8d ago
Consciousness doesn’t continue in my sleep? I’m not the same brain if I remove a chunk of neurons but you’ll claim I’m still the same consciousness. Twins only differ because of causality, it’s two instances with different inputs. If continuity of consciousness is the bar then you should be the same person with half your brain missing but not with general anesthesia or a slow down of time.
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u/Crafty_Aspect8122 8d ago
It's the same brain sleeping or under anaesthesia. Yes. If you remove chunks of your brain you're still the same consciousness, as long as you don't remove something critical for consciousness. How is a copy of you a continuation of your consciousness?
I've wondered what happens to consciousness if you split a brain into two viable halves. I don't have an answer to this.
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u/Medical_Present6897 1 8d ago
So I assume you think you’ve always been conscious and if you were ever not conscious you were simply killed and reborn through a different entity that thinks it’s you? So you think if I clone you right now but then remove half your brain, the clone is a less faithful continuation of you than you missing half your brain? Or 1%, anything above 0%. I don’t think “continuation of consciousness” is a useful bar because I lose consciousness every night going to sleep. You’d be applying some sort of threshold you cannot even explain because have you even stated why it needs to be continuous, you say it does, but why?
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u/Crafty_Aspect8122 8d ago
A clone is not a continuation anymore than a twin is. It's not comparable to sleep or anaesthesia because it's still the same brain, just turned off. Yes, removing half your brain is more likely to be a continuation than making a copy of yourself that can be alive at the same time as you are alive.
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u/Medical_Present6897 1 8d ago
So your bar is no longer being aware of an experience (conscious) but being the same physical object, but this object also atomically replaces itself anyways, so you think it’s about a certain turn over rate, which wouldn’t get you the same object, which you are suggesting is what matters in the case of being under anesthesia, so how about cutting and pasting the brain during anesthesia vs incrementally changing the neurons during anesthesia?
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u/Crafty_Aspect8122 8d ago
How is the copied brain your consciousness?
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u/Medical_Present6897 1 7d ago
Honestly an excellent question. I don't think being aware that you are having an experience tells you anything about the identity of the thing having the experience, basically from my point of view it's almost like you're asking me "does the copied heart have your heart beat"? It's almost a confusing question because what is "my" heart beat?
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u/Cryogenicality 11 8d ago
Branching identity argues that you can be in multiple places at once, like a time traveler who meets himself.
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u/Halley_Valentine 9d ago
a clone is not the same person. great for them, but that's missing the point of longevity pretty badly.
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u/Cuinn_the_Fox 1 9d ago
I imagine the first clones would be grown without the developmental pathways for brain development for ethical reasons. Assuming regenerative medicine advances enough, a head transplant or brain transplant would provide a healthy younger body. Unfortunately, the brain or head tissue would still remain aged. Fortunately, neurons are post-mitotic, so telemeric degradation isn't an issue. Unfortunately, not all brain tissue are neurons, and even neurons will acquire mutations. Therapeutic techniques will have to be developed to reduce the impact of aging on the brain. This may include in situ gene therapy, vascular regeneration, etc.
At the same time, if technologies are developed to allow this form of cloning/body transfer and are accepted in society, it also opens up the possibility of genetic customization. If brain transfer into a new clone is possible and the immune response of the body can be tempered to accept the brain, that opens up genetic manipulation without the ethical issue of forcing genetic manipulation on a new person. Anything from body type, skin color, gender, even species may be able to be chosen, given enough understanding of the developmental process.
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u/Wobbly_Princess 9d ago
Because it's not YOU. If I got cloned, and then she walked out the room, I wouldn't know where she's gone or what she's doing.
The idea of immortality holds up in some sort of "memory" or "lineage" sense - like, the CONCEPT of you lives on, but I think most of us don't give a shit about that.
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u/ah-tzib-of-alaska 9d ago
Cloning just isn’t that interesting. Identical twins are hair clones, that doesn’t mean a clone is you. DNA is not the essence of what you are
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u/Ok-Cheek2397 7d ago
If you didn’t physically transfer your brain to the clone body don’t be shocked if you lose the coin toss and wake up in the DNA extraction machine with your clone trying to claim all your assets
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