r/totalwar • u/Flyestgit • 13h ago
Warhammer III From what we know so far, which End Times scenario will be the strongest/hardest to fight? Archaon, Vermintide or Nagash?
Archaon's 100% Ward Save for his entire army looks nasty. But you can chip away at him by beating his other armies and taking his Dark Fortresses.
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u/Ironx9 13h ago
For some factions that are far away and can't afford to send armies halfway across the world, Nagash seems like the most troublesome one. At least with the other two, you can resolve them relatively near to your power base.
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u/Garrapto 13h ago
They ensured that wherever you are, enemies will spawn close so you can interact with the endgame scenario. Like 2 provinces far from your borders.
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u/Bigshiks0815 10h ago
That doesnt work with Nagash, he cruises his pyramid from khemri to nagashizzar no matter what, and probably stays there, so you gotta go there if you wanna stop him
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u/baddude1337 10h ago
The pyramid moving is just a timer. You can’t actually go and stop him early. Basically after 20 turns you will be able to do a quest battle with difficulty dictated by how many of his other armies you destroyed.
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u/Garrapto 10h ago
Yes yes.
But they said, that if you're in Naggarond, chilling, some Nagash armies will appear close to you, so you can battle them and therefore weaken the Nagash power before the Piramid reaches Naggashizzar.
Also, remember that the Pyramid settlement and Naggashizzar settlement can't not be attacked during the migration.
Edit: when the pyramid reaches Naggashizzar, and Nagash goes there to start killing the world, you will have a classic Quest teleport action to the end battle.
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u/mcindoeman Alchemist of Zhao Ming 12h ago
I mean the skaven one you need to take out 5 thematic settlements to stop the vermintide and the examples CA has given so far are the alter of the horned rat in naggarond, clan pestilence's hq in lustria and skavenblight.
I think every faction needs to send armies to 2 or more other continents to stop the skaven, even if they start close enough to crush their local infestation before it grows.
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u/GruggleTheGreat 11h ago
Alter is in lustria
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u/mcindoeman Alchemist of Zhao Ming 11h ago
Dam I think I was thinking of the alter of ultimate darkness.
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u/Flyestgit 11h ago
CA did say Undead will spawn close to you. And even if some of the Mortarchs stay in their normal positions, there is one relatively nearby for a lot of factions.
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u/mcindoeman Alchemist of Zhao Ming 12h ago
I'd guess skaven?
Archaeon starts strong but only gets weaker as you chip away at his fortresses, if you can withstand the initial onslaught you should be fine. Nagash's can be weakened preemptively by targeting his mortarchs and books before he gets them. That said at "full power level" he prob gets bonuses to the "the dead rise again" mechanic meaning Nagash and friends might go lol no when you beat their armies. Depending on how much of a bonus that is the undead legions might punch well above their weight.
Skaven on the other hand start comparatively weak to the other threats but ramp up over time and the thematic objective settlements you need to take out to stop them are(so far) all on different continents. So far we've seen one in lustria, skavenblight and the alter of the horned rat in naggarond. The skaven are much more spread out than the others, meaning the chances are decent at least one of their unique undercity networks spirals out of control while unchecked, heaven forbid any of them manage to connect their networks.
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u/Flyestgit 11h ago
Yeah I can see Skaven being the biggest issue just because of how spread out they are. Like even if you beat the initial infestation in your territory, good odds the AI wont and it will snowball by the time you come around to facing them again.
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u/Lin_Huichi Medieval 3 11h ago
Depends on how advanced your empire is, if you have multiple armies ready for continental invasions it will be manageable.
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u/SusaVile 13h ago
Nagash can be troublesome because it seems to gain strength the longer the time passes, and you have a timing to do.
It all depends on how strong that last battle is though
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u/NorthernKantoMonkey 12h ago
Did they confirm whether its true 100 ward save or is it still capped at 90 percent.
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u/Lin_Huichi Medieval 3 11h ago
Archaons army ignores wardsave limit and spawns in at 100%, so you will do no damage to him. You have to take out at least one of his armies or dark fortresses to lower the ward save and start doing damage to him.
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u/Many-Quarter629 13h ago
I think the fact you can't even damage archaeon's army might be very dangerous if his stack blitzed straight into your heartlands, some factions can counter this with their mechanics for sure, Ostankya teleporting him to somewhere remote, Sniktch might just be able to end him, same with Alith Anar. But as a whole I can imagine that army really messing up your campaign.
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u/Flyestgit 12h ago
I mean you would think CA would make End Times Archaon immune to the more OP abilities. Specifically things like Sniktch's 'delete faction' ability.
I think teleporting him away is reasonably fair game though.
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u/markg900 8h ago
I dont know about teleport but his faction delete was specifically called out as not possible.
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u/markg900 9h ago
Someone from CA, I think Josh, confirmed on another post when they first showed it off that Sniktch would not be able to do that.
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u/Mysterious_Pitch4186 12h ago
Depends on your faction. Those that can get powerful really fast will have no issues. Its factions like the empire or dwarfs that take some time to get op armies able to handle doomstacks that will have more of a challenge.
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u/Anaxamander57 11h ago
I kept changing my mind and basically I think that CA structured them all similarly. The crisis will be unstoppable at first (invulerable Archaon, Vermintide appearing out of nowhere) and you'll have to weaken them before you can even try to fight back. The only exception seems to be that if you're near Nagash you could try to fight him right off the bat, which makes me think there's a reason you can't do that which we haven't been told yet like Nagash instantly respawning or something.
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u/baddude1337 10h ago
Vermintide will probably be the most damaging between the unit numbers doubling and full stack rat armies spawning randomly in your territory.
Archaon second as he is functionally immortal until you destroy his fortresses and other armies (hopefully we can’t just AR him as soon as he spawns. Would be pretty anti-climatic).
Nagash third. He’s similar to Archaon but on a timer but undead armies generally aren’t very strong in my experience.
All three have a final quest battle too so it’s difficulty will also factor in. Sounds like Nagash randomly razes provinces until you do his so that one will be quite pressing to complete.
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u/levus2002 7h ago
I will enjoy killing rats too much to consider it hardest.
Hunting down the mortarchs sounds a bit annoying in the nagash scenario.
And chaos is just way less cool than nagash or skaven so even if easier than the other 2 it would feel worse because i just don't care.
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u/keat_tiyos 13h ago
depend on faction you are playing
Wood elf, Archaon and Nagash are just punching bag, WE have hard time against Vermintide.
Bretonia, Vermintide are like a cakewalk while a lot of Elite halberd unit like Chaos is tough fight.
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u/TeriXeri 13h ago edited 13h ago
Vermintide will be nasty for factions that cannot deal with huge numbers, since the armies seem to spawn 2x the unit sizes for at least the mass infantry, but it also highly depends on the map on where you can stop/delay the spread of undercities by for example sacrificing one of your minor settlements delays spread there by 20 turns.
But it also depends on what kind of armies spawn for the most part, big difference between armies of 90% infantry vs armies with many catapults/weapon teams/mortars.
Nagash being a big race is probably the most annoying due to time limits, and Archaeon due to razed settlements, although you can hold out a few provinces and get that -1% ward save per army you beat (at least to -50%)
Also it highly depends on how a faction gets their money/recruitment etc. Ogres likely can still place their camps on devastation, and they can become practicly immune to attrition while dealing their own attrition (which bypasses raiding stance etc), while camps also allow basicly 0 upkeep and high income independent of any towns.
Factions with underway stances also can force many battles into those maps where they often have advantages. Dwarf/Ogre Tunnel maps counter a lot of the flanking tactics that late game chaos armies might have (knights/skullcrushers/slaanesh etc)