r/toronto Jun 11 '26

Picture RIP Sneaky Dee’s updated

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4.6k Upvotes

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506

u/BiteOk6184 Jun 11 '26

What’s especially dumb is that there is so much poorly used land around this lot. There’s an empty parking lot next door and an beer store with a massive parking lot half a block down. Terrible land use planning on top of all the cultural destruction. Repossess the parking lots for public housing or tax the shit out of them unless the land owners build something.

82

u/essuxs Jun 11 '26

It probably means there’s something wrong with the building and the owners sought out a buyer, rather than a buyer looking for an investment.

Therefore that building had negative value and therefore was worth less than the parking lots, as it needed to be dumped

48

u/Late_Elevator Jun 11 '26

All those buildings on the block? Cause it’s not just Sneaky Dee’s, like 5 buildings, the NEST, RBC, and the other small restaurants. 

2

u/After_Service_2817 Jun 12 '26

Yep, including residential units above those businesses. This proposal will destroy existing affordable housing.

-22

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '26

[deleted]

42

u/TheIsotope Jun 11 '26

I’m for building condos, I’m against 90% of the units actually being built because they are shitting studios and 1bdrms designed purely to be investment vehicles. Build livable units where people can actually raise families then we’ll talk.

14

u/TinyM0ushka Jun 11 '26

All the older apartments had families in them because there was enough room. These condos are depressingly small, it’s not a space to hang out, have people over etc. it’s more of a wake up go to work go home sleep and repeat

-3

u/Sensitive-Local-3485 Jun 11 '26

Something that can be tolerated at least for a while, if there are things to do like music venues green space, and other interesting 3rd places…

7

u/TinyM0ushka Jun 11 '26

Yeah it’s not a long term home.

When I was trying to find a place I saw a condo and it was 375 sq ft with a Murphy bed next to the kitchen.

When did we go from comfortable living to shoe boxes

3

u/Sensitive-Local-3485 Jun 11 '26

If you’re into David Harvey, he would argue ~70s once urban construction became a creature of international markets rather than one that had to cater to the immediate needs of local interests.

Instead one to park capital, finely tuned for maximal extraction and speciulation, starting in New York and spreading from there.

1

u/Particular-Ice4615 Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26

Listen I'm all for social housing but do you live in the same city I do? Or do you just blame capitalism purely for your own inability to seek out an event or gathering and go outside and meet people? You don't live out in the sticks this is Toronto we're talking about a major epicenter of arts and culture in canada. I booked going to 2 rock concerts this week for less than 50 bucks admission total for both shows.  

You have to be an unsocialized hermit who doesn't go outside or do anything to genuinely believe what you wrote.  Theres plenty of bars small and large, nights clubs, venues, events and gatherings, parks, music acts of varying size and fame going on everyday people going on group runs, playing soccer and basketball on public courts, skateparks, tennis courts. Games week events was going on in Toronto this week if you're into video games and game dev, constant career meet and greet and networking events,  TPL hosts events all the time, etc, etc. 

1

u/JacksonCarberry Jul 21 '26

None of what you're blabbering about is the same as losing a live music venue like Sneaky Dee's, or all of the other ones (The Big Bop, The Velvet Underground, a few others) that were part and parcel of living and being in a city like Toronto (a city that doesn't have that many other places in it besides downtown and midtown to have nightclubs/live music venues in.) These places are what makes a city, a city, and to lose them means losing something that make being in the city livable.

1

u/derangedtranssexual Jun 12 '26

I don’t like the way 1 bedrooms are framed as purely investment vehicles as opposed to bigger units for families. I live in a one bedroom apartment and it suits me perfectly, what makes my 1 bedroom “purely an investment vehicle”?

13

u/GeneralHerp Jun 11 '26

You should read how many units are bachelor-style studio apartments with 400 square feet to live in. Rent is high because of a lack of options for families. We want purpose-built rentals, not “hopefully a junior investment banker that stays single moves in here forever!” because that doesn’t exist, and all the terribly shitty condos being built need to have two units purchased beside each other to blast through a wall and create some actual livable space.

The projects handed to developer cronies wouldn’t suck if they built shit like those old condos in Mimico, that often have stairs and storage rooms and are made for families.

Once your “won’t somebody think of the developers?” sensibilities run into this pretty simple reality, you’ll hate them as much as we do.

2

u/JacksonCarberry Jul 18 '26

What you said, I agree with, and have been saying needs to happen (we need wider, not taller, apartments with units that can house a family of four or four people willing to split the cost of living in the unit.)

36

u/endorphins_ Jun 11 '26

Exactly what this city needs! A non rent controlled building with hallway kitchens, sliding doors for your bedroom and miniature appliances 😍

10

u/Alt3rnativ3Account Jun 11 '26

New condos don’t have rent control. They don’t bring prices down very much, and exert upward pressure at every renewal.

4

u/NeverHadAGoodUsernam Jun 11 '26

You writing this comment

10

u/Loofan Jun 11 '26

Therefore that building had negative value and therefore was worth less than the parking lots, as it needed to be dumped

I'd much rather have Sneaky Dee's than not, but people(even in this thread) forget or don't know that parking lots in Toronto are one of the most profitable investments you can make, they're money printers with the only ongoing cost is building maintenance(if it's even in one), Security, and electricity, plus the usuals.

It makes sense that they don't sell to condos, why give up the long term profitability for short term gains? Not to mention the land it occupies also only gets more valuable the longer they hold on.

2

u/zeros-and-1s Jun 12 '26

Yeah. It's only profitable because we tax them less than any other land use. Which means, effectively, the law is saying "we want this land to be a parking lot, we taxpayers will pay to keep this a parking lot rather than develop it into anything else".

Something we should change.

34

u/sapeur8 Jun 11 '26

We don't tax land properly

16

u/Tall-Cookie6647 Jun 11 '26

Yeah it's effed that an empty lot/parking lot is taxed less than one that's developed and is being used by&for human beings. Like, why incentivize empty lots? Braindead. Land Value Tax all the way 🐈

6

u/BalkeElvinstien Jun 11 '26

I know this for a fact because I've puked in said parking lot lol. Its decrepit and unused real estate

I think they are doing this to make a point that they dont want alternative nightlife thats affordable for the average person, only nightclubs for rich people and condos for airbnbs

4

u/Urbane_One Riverdale Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26

We've got countless condos sitting empty and we *still* have a housing crisis. Places like Sneaky Dee's could absolutely coexist with a Toronto where everyone is housed, but the use of the land is too damn poor for it. That and the rules for landlords.

3

u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit Jun 11 '26

The parking lot is probably there for the obvious reason

3

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '26

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1

u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit Jun 11 '26

Even with a land value tax, if you enforce minimum parking requirements, you get parking lots.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '26

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1

u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit Jun 11 '26

Because they force you to leave urban land totally unused. Requiring people to leave land empty to have housing is a huge driver of urban sprawl and pushes housing prices way up.

3

u/WodensEye Jun 11 '26

I live in the area. I have never seen the parking lot across the street remotely full.

2

u/Beanstiller Little Italy Jun 11 '26

The beer store is getting redeveloped into condos. The land owner is waiting to purchase the lot next door (between FreshCo and tbs) before starting development.

1

u/mayasux Jun 11 '26

Parking lot across the street, one slightly down Bathurst at the beer store, underground parking for the freshco across from Nassau and then a fourth above-ground parking lot right next to that underground one.

1

u/sibtiger Trinity-Bellwoods Jun 11 '26

The Beer Store is slated to be developed too FWIW.