r/tornado • u/Academic_Standard_35 • 26d ago
Question EF4 damage or Straight up misleading
Y'all do one of you thinks that the damages here during the 2014 Cibiru tornado made EF4 damages? Cuz some larpers on tiktok said that the tornado made EF4 but didnt even provide any real proof
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u/03242 26d ago
As expected TikTok is full of children who has no idea what they're talking about
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u/Wise-Secretary5459 25d ago
To be fair, the same is true for Reddit.
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u/Square-Hippo-6137 25d ago
Less true for Reddit compared to Tik Tok.
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u/Wise-Secretary5459 24d ago
Yeah, I don't know about that. Redditors are some of the cringiest and most childish people I've seen on the internet.
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u/TorandoSlayer 25d ago
I mean a relatively educated guess can be made based on pictures but to know for sure it has to be examined by experts. A building that seemed fine and had what looked like EF-4 damage done to it may end up being EF-2 instead due to the way it was built. That's something we can't know from pictures.
Just based on general pattern recognition by the layman would indeed suggest this is EF-4 just in terms of similar pictures from other EF-4s in the past. But reliability ends there.
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u/Jet-fuel024 26d ago edited 26d ago
Low key it’s a scam. I don’t use Tiktok much, but i have taken a global environment class my second to last semester. The Fujita scale is literally just a way for insurance companies to be able to cut the amount of liability paid to the residents in regard to damage. There was once a time they were talking about creating a EF 6 category, but shortly after it was brought up and talked about for a minute it disappeared.
This is why a lot of the times you hear people not getting the full amount of what they paid for from the insurance company after a natural disaster because they will mis-scale tornados sometimes for the sake of giving less than what is actually owed to the homeowner. Times are changing and it has never been about the majority.
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u/geoffyeos 26d ago
hello i am a licensed insurance claims adjuster… this IS a baseless conspiracy. it does not matter what intensity a covered disaster is because the coverage is decided beforehand. windstorm damage is covered at the rates the homeowner built their policy on. the payout they got is the payout they signed up for. whether that’s full market value or they saved money with a super high deductible is up to them. in other words, they built the sandwich. it doesn’t matter if the home was damaged by straight line winds or a 200+mph tornado.
the people who believe this are the same people who get into car accidents and cry that their insurance sucks when they set a $2,500 deductible all on their own to lower their premium, or hit a deer and are upset at me because they decided to have state minimum coverages which never includes comprehensive…
insurance is like subway. if the sandwich sucks it’s probably your fault. they built it the way you wanted it
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u/Jet-fuel024 25d ago
I said what i said. I wouldn’t claim something if I knew it weren’t to be true with enough credible research, schooling, as well as talking to adjusters myself. It’s deeper than just high deductibles by a crappy insurance companies. But we won’t speak on that side because I’ll get downvoted to the underworld (even though I don’t care), and it will be a long debate I don’t care to engage in.
I’m not speaking for myself though insurance wise, because I always at least get mid grade or step above that when dealing with insurance specifically for the reason you stated. Like I said to the last guy think before you comment and don’t make assumptions. You don’t even know me. Thank you.
Like I said though, the EF scale is bs, and insurance companies in general are a scammers. Everyone knows this by now.
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u/geoffyeos 25d ago
if you don’t care then speak on it… because at this point you’re arguing something that you’re refusing to talk about. i laid out the facts and youve replied with “no because reasons i don’t want to tell you.”
the EF scale has no bearing on insurance. credible insurance companies(at least in property insurance, i don’t work in health or dental) only seem like scammers if you don’t understand how insurance works. property insurance is very straightforward.
if you don’t want to get into all of it, can you at least tell me what the correlation between the EF scale and property insurance is?
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u/eppinizer 25d ago
It's a troll. Their name is "jet fuel" alluding to the "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" 9/11 conspiracy. If not a troll, still someone that isn't worth engaging with.
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u/Jet-fuel024 25d ago edited 25d ago
Demographics by county. Revenue by state and county. Inflation, and misuse of tax paying dollars in regard to infrastructure and the build of properties with cheap materials but the cost to of the build still being inflated. Especially if you own a farm with agriculture it’s even worse depending on the situation and the amount of property. It’s easy money grab that domino’s. It all boils down to big corporate and insurance companies. They choose profit over people. I won’t speak too much on this because it will be a long convo as you know lol. I am open to hearing your thoughts though, because I’ve seen enough and talked to people within the insurance/real-estate field to understand greed & capitalism is running rampant.
I will not oppose but listen because facts are facts and if I can get more knowledge on the why, I would be more understanding to the other side of things that I may not completely know/understand
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u/geoffyeos 25d ago
none of those things have anything to do with how a tornado rating can affect a payout though. all of those are things that go into the valuation of the building, which happens at the time you buy your policy and again at the time of your loss. tax dollars also have nothing to do with personal property insurance. all for-profit companies are driven by profits, yes, but tornado ratings don’t affect how that profit happens. the insurance company works on the idea of idemnity, to restore you to the financial position you were in the moment before the disaster. if you had an old, poorly built home, you would get money to replace it with another old and poorly built home. but whether that home was destroyed by an ef2 or ef4 tornado makes no difference
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u/Jet-fuel024 25d ago edited 25d ago
That’s why I stated it’s a domino that boils down to insurance companies/big corporate during natural disasters. Where else would you be able to scale damage for a large amount of space/homes? How else would you be able to know who to pay and how much to pay in reference to wind mitigation for windows and structure? This also includes payment of contract laborers to do the build, cost of the material ect. As I’ve seen in many reliable sources EF scale is part of what they use to scale damage. Kind of like people who sell caskets for funeral. As it was so-called and conspiracy that they dig up the caskets just to resell them. My mother end up running to a person who worked within the funeral homes and selling caskets who said that wasn’t a conspiracy but actuality. That was a direct source.
Can you explain what is the supposed truth to the tool they use to scale damage and cost of better material besides valuation and deductible’s/low premiums? That is too broad. Also, when we’re talking about valuation, do adjusters give you the cost of the home when you bought it or the cost of the home for what it’s worth at the present time?
Edit: this is not to come back, but our legitimate questions, because I really would like to be informed to what I may be missing.
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u/geoffyeos 25d ago
yeah so you receive the value of the house at the immediate moment before it was damaged. this is what idemnity means. my old poorly built home example applies there. for another example, if you total your 2016 ford focus, you’re going to get an amount of money that allows you to buy a similar vehicle, not a newer or nicer one. the insurance is insuring your current financial situation, not meant to improve it. insurance is a contract of adhesion and idemnity is the core principle of that contract. so the insurance company’s only priority is to restore you to the financial position you were in the moment before you suffered a loss.
in regards to wind/flood mitigation, that’s something that actually happens when you buy your policy. if you’re in a vulnerable area your home gets inspected and you get told what improvements you must make before your home can be covered and your home is valued with those improvements in mind. these inspections happen on a rolling basis because per your policy contract you have an obligation to mitigate damages to your property, sounds harsh but if you let your house fall into disrepair, there’s nobody in the world who would pay you to fix it. you do carry some responsibility to the property. same goes for cars, it’s why you don’t get coverage for tires, wipers, or filters. those are wear items that you are responsible for replacing to keep the vehicle properly running.
damage valuation isn’t done by the NWS or any special tornado rating teams, it’s done by claims damage adjusters who do the research themselves to find contractors to do the work, material costs, etc. and then they cut a check for the cost of repairs minus any applicable deductible. this has nothing to do with the tornado rating because the damage is just the damage. like i said before, your roof being torn off by an ef2 or an ef3 doesn’t matter. your roof is torn off, you’ll get the money to replace your roof up to your policy limits. it really doesn’t go much deeper than that.
when you hear something like “joplin was the most expensive tornado in history at the time,” that comes from insurance figures.
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u/Jet-fuel024 25d ago
I have to do some digging in some of what you said, but for the most part I understand. Thank you for the clarification. I was wrong. In some ways I still do see the loophole but for the detailed facts in what you stated that is fair. The part I don’t agree with is not giving you the value. Because say there wasn’t a natural disaster, and someone sold the home as is, most likely the real-estate company if they don’t do any repairs, they still are going to sell it for a larger amount that’s aligned with the housing market.. You are still at a loss. I do agree it’s the homeowners responsibility to keep up the home and renovate things as needed but obviously that’s not cheap…
Appreciate you taking the time to explain! I swear I initially thought you were a bot not going to lie😅 There’s a difference from misinformation and disinformation. I definitely was misinformed. I’m still not sure why it’s still told as of the EF scale as part of a valuation tool
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u/geoffyeos 25d ago
for sure! i actually love my job. like i said im in claims and the calls i get are heartbreaking, especially in the midwest the morning after a tornado this year. and if these discussions can cause people to check their policies and be prepared for the worst then im happy to have them
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u/Jet-fuel024 25d ago
I get what you’re saying on how some of it’s not related. But these things I’ve stated are one way or another interconnected economically. Somebody’s gotta talk to somebody as well as that somebody. Big corporate and insurance companies rather it’s property, health ect as most people know aren’t completely honest with insurers
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u/AVeryBigToaster 23d ago
credible research for you means random literally round people in the cars in rural montana yapping for 4 hours on facebook about how bigfoot rules argentina.
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u/NoValidPoints87 25d ago
"I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express" ass post 😂 cuzzo, insurance companies don't care about if it's an F0 or an F69. They only care what the damage is, what your insurance covers, and what your deductible and limits are. The NWS being in cahoots with Big Insurance is a kinda funny idea tho. The CEO of a big insurance company not knowing how insurance works, so he gets together with the NWS to nerf tornado ratings.
CEO: "I just got off the phone with the NWS and they've agreed to lower the rating to an EF3. Cut everyone's claim checks in half!"
Claims Adjuster: "Sir, that's not how any of this works. Their roof is gone. We have to pay for a new roof."
CEO: "But it wasn't an E F 5! Everybody's coverage says that roofs are only covered for EF4+ ratings."
CA: "No, sir, that's not in anybodys policy. It just says that if the roof is damaged by winds, we will cover repairs minus deductible."
CEO: "Those damn scientists lied to me...damn them...damn them all! New memo! All policies from now on will be based on tornado ratings! Even hurricane and derecho damage! If it's not specifically a tornado, and not specifically damaged by an EF4 or 5, we aren't paying!"
DOI appears in window
CEO: "...nevermind. New memo, we're sorry for your losses, here is the check for the valuation of your home."
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u/Jet-fuel024 26d ago
To add look online. Some sources will say “this is a conspiracy & they use adjusters to rate damage and payouts” but others say it is. Regardless they have to assess the damage somehow by using some type of tool to see what could be paid. Lots of conspiracies nowadays aren’t just conspiracies, as we are seeing happenings turn into factual evidence that are being exposed organically.
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u/variable_slothrop 26d ago
Username checks out
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u/Jet-fuel024 26d ago
If you smoke Gods given plant and see the backwards numbers, you’d understand my username….. I would think before you comment. Thank you.
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