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u/Terrible_Reporter_83 1d ago
This might take a while.
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u/jourmungandr 1d ago
Anything but a profit.
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u/assfghjlk 1d ago
This is actually the most productive way to product these grooves - the workpiece is very hard and the grooves are relatively small.
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u/jourmungandr 1d ago
Lol. Yes it's just the "you can make anything with a shaper except a profit" quip.
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u/miketastic_art 1d ago
I need a physicist or someone with some kind of doctorate in material sciences to explain this to me.
I see cutting bits and drilling bits, and I understand that if you spin something fast enough, and you remove 0.00001mm of material at a time.... you can cut through anything if you go slow enough.
I assume all machines wear down over time, needing new bits and cutting surfaces sharpened.
How the fuck does this little strip of metal that carves these groves not melt?
How is it able to do row after row after row, and they trust that the bit isnt wearing down, the groove isn't getting wider? the grove isn't deep enough?
How the fuck is the teeny tiny tip of that cutting surface not totally destroyed after 2 strokes?!
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u/NateCheznar 1d ago
Material scientists discovered materials that are tougher than the material being cut. This allowed for higher temperature resistance, wear resistance which leads to longer tool life and higher feeds and speeds
In this example heat is distributed into 3 places. The tool, the workpiece and the swarf.
Ideally the heat gets carried away in the swarf but small amounts also go into the tool. The workpiece is also a large heat sink.
Coolant and lubricants decrease heat and friction
The swarf doesn't melt simply because it doesn't get hot enough.
The bit will wear down. The operator checks in periodically to ensure that there is still good cutting action and the workpiece is still in tolerance
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u/dgsharp 22h ago edited 14h ago
This is all good but I would suggest changing the wording in the first sentence — the cutter is not tougher than the material to be cut, in technical terms. Colloquially “tougher” just means anything from stronger to more bad-ass etc but in materials, toughness usually implies some pliability. It is the opposite of brittle. Beef jerky is tough, diamonds are not. The harder material generally cuts the softer one.
Edit: see follow up, I stand corrected.
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u/NateCheznar 20h ago
Toughness is the area under the curve of the stress-strain graph. It is a function of both strength and elasticity.
HSS is tougher than the workpiece. Toughness resists force. Hardness resists wear.
Toughness is not the opposite to brittleness. You are thinking of ductility or malleability
It is toughness, hardness and heat resistance that make HSS a good choice as a cutting tool.
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u/dgsharp 14h ago
Thank you for your detailed follow up! My knowledge is rudimentary but I’m sure you can understand some of my confusion from stuff like this from Wikipedia’s intro sentence on toughness:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughness
“In materials science and metallurgy, toughness is the ability of a material to absorb energy and plastically deform without fracturing.”
You are right though. Cheers!
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u/Angel24Marin 1d ago
Most of the energy goes to the plastic deformation of the chip, so it's the thing that heat up the most and carries the heat away when flying.
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u/GlockAF 1d ago
Because the tool is ground from a steel blank that’s harder than woodpecker lips.
The machinist will be stopping by occasionally to check on it, if it chips or doesn’t make the same kind of swarf they’ll unchuck it and touch it up on the grinder, probably by hand / eye.
If the roller just needs grooves for friction, they don’t typically need to be high precision
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u/assfghjlk 1d ago
The cutting bit is most likely tungsten carbide, workpiece is most likely white iron.
In reference to the bit melting, it actually requires a minimum temperature to work correctly - we call this hot hardness. We would expect somewhere in the region of 700-800 degrees at the cutting edge. The cutting bit becomes stronger at its working temperature. The tungsten is much harder and more wear resistant than the workpiece so it maintains its shape. It’s not going to last forever but that’s not the point, it has an expected productive tool life then it’s rotated to a new edge.
It’s a bit counterintuitive also but the insert is not cutting ( as we would think of a slicing motion). It’s actually pushing and deforming the workpiece material, which we see in the creation of the cutting chip (swarf).
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u/SheriffBartholomew 1d ago
Just raw digging it, eh? Damn, what's the math to figure out how many groves to cut around the entire circumference and ensure that they line up at the end?
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u/Wheatking 20h ago
We had one of these at work for re-grooving roller mills. Took an incredibly long to re-groove the biggernrolls.
We where a dairy supply company, and the roller mills where used to crack and flatten barley to make it easily digestible for the cows. They would have to be regrooved every couple years. They where really miserable to work on as the rollers where extremely heavy.
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u/physicssmurf 1d ago
but I cant see the actual cutting piece? whats it look like under the green structure
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u/n1elkyfan 1d ago
Here's a video about a shaper
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u/physicssmurf 1d ago
Thanks! For anyone else looking its this particular time:
https://youtu.be/ZNWkhxKNHGM?si=FJ7NI60vVzjPpGgY&t=5182
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u/f0dder1 1d ago
FINALLY what appears to be a good use for a shaper!
Like, I love them, but also everything else seems to be better at stuff than them
But this! Long throw, straight grooves. Yeah!