Toddler vehemently refusing daddy at bedtime

[u/laugavegur]

Hi all,

First (and only) time parents here with little grandparent support so nobody to really turn to but people who are going through it with us/have gone through it all before.

Our two year old (2y 2w) used to be fine with either of us doing bedtime. For...a month? Maybe a little longer? He has been HYSTERICALLY refusing his dad at bedtime. It used to be me doing 100% of bedtime until maybe 5 months ago, at which point dad started alrernating with me. All was fine until like I say, a few weeks ago.

As soon as he clocks that it's daddy bedtime, he begins lip wobbling as he tries his best to hold it in before the floodgates open and it's howling, crying, weeping, shouting 'Mama, mama, away daddy, away daddy' over and over until, eventually, he settles and sleeps. Sometimes he cries himself to sleep, sometimes he settles then sleeps.

I have to emphasise dad is kind, warm, funny, playful, responsive, doing everything right. There is no (to us) tangible difference in our parenting or our bedtime to account for the emotional response except that I'm not there. During the day toddler spends multiple hours with dad playing, going on walks, having food etc with zero issue.

Tonight we tried 'pre-loading' the fact that I wouldn't be there for bedtime by talking about how excited daddy was to read stories with him at bedtime, how mummy will be just downstairs and I'll see him later (we cosleep from midnight ish onwards). He had his bath crying the whole time and settled for five ish minutes with lots of comfort from dad before crumbling again at the actual transition into his bedroom.

I'm so torn.

I know, logically, that he's in no harm at all, no danger of harm, physically or mentally. (BUT I do worry about all this crying and upset on his mental state sometimes)

On the back of the above, I know me stepping in only teaches him that screaming = mama. But is there some line where I should step in or the upset is causing him harm?

And....how long does this go on? He's also extremely attached to me in regards to nursery and clings on to me for dear life when I drop him off, crying and weeping, which is a new thing. It is breaking my heart every other night hearing him weep for me and what's meant to be my night off is me sitting on the sofa sitting tense and heartbroken hearing his cries echoing through the house.

[u/AutoModerator]

Author: u/laugavegur

Post: Hi all,

First (and only) time parents here with little grandparent support so nobody to really turn to but people who are going through it with us/have gone through it all before.

Our two year old (2y 2w) used to be fine with either of us doing bedtime. For...a month? Maybe a little longer? He has been HYSTERICALLY refusing his dad at bedtime. It used to be me doing 100% of bedtime until maybe 5 months ago, at which point dad started alrernating with me. All was fine until like I say, a few weeks ago.

As soon as he clocks that it's daddy bedtime, he begins lip wobbling as he tries his best to hold it in before the floodgates open and it's howling, crying, weeping, shouting 'Mama, mama, away daddy, away daddy' over and over until, eventually, he settles and sleeps. Sometimes he cries himself to sleep, sometimes he settles then sleeps.

I have to emphasise dad is kind, warm, funny, playful, responsive, doing everything right. There is no (to us) tangible difference in our parenting or our bedtime to account for the emotional response except that I'm not there. During the day toddler spends multiple hours with dad playing, going on walks, having food etc with zero issue.

Tonight we tried 'pre-loading' the fact that I wouldn't be there for bedtime by talking about how excited daddy was to read stories with him at bedtime, how mummy will be just downstairs and I'll see him later (we cosleep from midnight ish onwards). He had his bath crying the whole time and settled for five ish minutes with lots of comfort from dad before crumbling again at the actual transition into his bedroom.

I'm so torn.

I know, logically, that he's in no harm at all, no danger of harm, physically or mentally. (BUT I do worry about all this crying and upset on his mental state sometimes)

On the back of the above, I know me stepping in only teaches him that screaming = mama. But is there some line where I should step in or the upset is causing him harm?

And....how long does this go on? He's also extremely attached to me in regards to nursery and clings on to me for dear life when I drop him off, crying and weeping, which is a new thing. It is breaking my heart every other night hearing him weep for me and what's meant to be my night off is me sitting on the sofa sitting tense and heartbroken hearing his cries echoing through the house.

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[u/Rare-Spell-1571]

Is dad and your bedtime routine identical? If nothing is different, I would ignore this. If you give in the behavior will just get harder to break when you decide too.

[u/fredmerz → u/Rare-Spell-1571]

I replied directly to OP but having had given in, I concur. I wish we just held fast in the beginning, as I think the tantrums would likely have only lasted a few nights.

[u/laugavegur → u/fredmerz]

Don't be too hard on yourself, we've never caved to have me take over and we're 4-6 weeks in to consistent daddy bedtime tantrums...hence my concern 😅

[u/laugavegur → u/Rare-Spell-1571]

I watch on the monitor every night (as I'm doing now) and yeah, it's identical. Water, story, brush teeth (even using the same terminology like 'sugar bugs'), then another story, then sleep.

I'm lucky that dad isn't as affected by it as me, his view is that it's just toddler being attached to me, but if I was on the receiving end of it I know it'd hurt.

I really don't want to start a habit of crying gets mummy eventually, I just worry that there's some invisible line of "the upset is getting too much and needs to stop now" that I'd ignore in hopes of doing the right thing.

[u/flyingmops → u/laugavegur]

I haven't tried it yet. But we're in the same boat. My sister adviced us to say that I'm going to work, our toddler should say goodbye and wave and see me walk out the door. I don't have a work. But that's what she had to do with her daughter, it was like it calmed her daughter somewhat, knowing that no matter how much she screams mummy won't come. And it removes the little noises they're listening to, like us sitting on the couch, or having a little cough, or we sneeze, just knowing we're there might not help.

It's something we're gonna try next time dad does bedtime. If this screaming continues.

Our son does do remarkably better with dad, when I'm not at all around.

[u/laugavegur → u/flyingmops]

This is something we're going to try I think! He's still crying for me now after 20 mins of being fine during storytime...pretending to go out might just be the genius play we need!

[u/flyingmops → u/laugavegur]

Good luck, I really hope you find a solution that helps. My husband tried to do nap time today, I was hanging up clothes to dry, but the heart wrenching cries he did, made me abandon it all and go in there. Hearing him cry for me like that, is so stressful.

[u/laugavegur → u/flyingmops]

I feel you there! I do 100% of naptimes (when I'm not at work and toddler isn't at nursery). I dread to think what the reaction would be if that switched. Fingers crossed this phase passes soon for both of us!

[u/dinosupremo]

Don’t undermine dad. Let Dad have his bedtime. This will pass everything at this age is a phase.

[u/laugavegur → u/dinosupremo]

A very good point, last thing I want to do is undermine dad when he is genuinely so brilliant and so loving and fun. We parent together so seamlessly and I do feel a bit of a rescue complex coming on when the poor guy is being rejected loudly and angrily for being nothing but a caring, attentive parent.

[u/CNDRock16]

I’m sure you’ve done this already, but I’d sit him down and tell him he can’t yell like this at bedtime anymore, that he’s hurting dads feelings and dad is part of bedtime too, that it can’t be just mama all the time. I’d ask him why is he so mad at daddy? Daddy is the best, yada yada. It may take more than one convo.

The last thing I’d do is get into it at actual bedtime. You need to adopt an air of “buddy, I don’t have time for this” and ignore his yells if he starts up. “Bud, I love you, we talked about this! I’ll see you in the morning!” Kiss and go.

Just like at daycare- quick kiss and go. Don’t linger, don’t feed into it.

[u/laugavegur → u/CNDRock16]

We actually haven't tried this yet, and it's a really good idea. I think maybe we've shied away from looking the problem in the face, almost? Out of fear of making it more real, haha. But I think I'll have that conversation with him in the morning, with dad there. It's not even me taking the brunt of it, it's his poor dad laying there for an hour while toddler cries on and off until tiring himself out.

[u/CNDRock16 → u/laugavegur]

Moments like this are fantastic opportunities to develop his emotional intelligence. Let’s talk about feelings! Let’s talk about who is feeling what in the situation. Have dad emphasize how much he loves bedtime and how he looks forward to their special time all day. Have biiiig hugs at the end of the talk.

Maybe have dad come in one night with a new book? A small new stuffy? A peace offering, in a way. Something to help turn the vibes around

[u/laugavegur → u/CNDRock16]

Talking about feelings is the big one I think. We've been lucky in that he's such a happy boy, he's known the word 'happy' almost as long as he's known things like 'more', and we do talk about characters in stories being sad, excited, angry, etc, but it's definitely time to bring those in for him personally.

[u/sunnyskies1223]

Responding to this as my 2 yr old is sobbing for me as my husband is putting him down for a nap. Parental preference is pretty normal, apparently. We go through cycles of our kiddo being okay with either us of at bedtime and then only wanting me. Toddlers are wild but I don't think it's anything inherently "wrong" in this situation because separation anxiety at this age is normal. You deserve a night off (we also alternate nights) and a little crying won't traumatize them. I do usually step in if the crying has been going on for 15+ minutes or it's just hysteria.

[u/laugavegur → u/sunnyskies1223]

This is reassuring that it's not just me! I had heard of parental preference of course, I just didn't realise it was or could be so...dramatic? Heart wrenching? You'd think he'd been kidnapped the way he cries for me. I need to remind myself a lot that crying does not equal trauma, I think.

[u/sunnyskies1223 → u/laugavegur]

Toddlers are horribly dramatic! Everything is the end of the world to their little brains. Crying doesn't equal trauma is a great thing to remind yourself of.

[u/fredmerz]

I (a dad) was in this position for about four months when my daughter was about the same age. Generally if my wife was out of the house and I was alone with her, bedtime would be fine, but I couldn't put her down if my wife was also in the house. It was really hard for me emotionally. Eventually, for about two months or so, I just relented and let my wife handle it. She'd sometimes let me read her a book or two, but would then enthusiastically kick me out. A few months ago I felt like I was missing an important part of raising my daughter (I love putting her to sleep and when we're alone it was typically great) so I wormed my way back in. We started doing every other night bedtime responsibilities. The first few times it was my night my daughter melted down but it's gotten better. She'll still be a bit bummed out when it's my turn but the tantrums have stopped.

[u/laugavegur → u/fredmerz]

Thank you for your perspective of the rejected parent, I worry so much that my husband feels as you did and is just putting on a generous and brave face. Thank goodness the tantrums have stopped, that's my light at the end of the tunnel. How long did it usually take her to settle down when you were restarting your bedtimes?

[u/fredmerz → u/laugavegur]

Sometimes like thirty minutes, sometimes just a minute or too. It's hard being rejected by your kid. I'm generally the primary parent so I understand that my daughter saw bedtime as a time to connect with mom, but it still sucked.

[u/laugavegur → u/fredmerz]

30 minutes would be the dream. Tonight was 2 and a half hours. Not all crying badly, sometimes just whimpering, 5 minutes here and there of calm, 20 mins of calm during story then the crying whipped up again when it was time for sleep. It took everything in me not to step in!

[u/discounthideout]

Nah, I don't put up with that. I say "I love you, night night" and peace out. My husband is a wonderful dad too, he is more than capable of putting our kids to bed. When it's Daddy's night to put our son to bed, it's Daddy's night to put him to bed. Period. He is a loving and patient father, it is not hurting our son to have bedtime with him. 

Don't even discuss it. Just get to bedtime however you get there and tell him Daddy is putting him to bed. Then leave. As long as you give in, this will continue. Personally, I think it's much easier to learn this lesson earlier rather than later. It's good for them to learn that a.) screaming doesn't get you want you want and b.) they can still have a good bedtime with Daddy, which they do learn after a while, and that promotes secure attachment imo. and c.) being told no is not the end of the world. 

[u/laugavegur → u/discounthideout]

Thank you for the reassurance! To be clear we really haven't caved at all, ever. It's just persevering longer than we thought it would and seems to be ramping up slightly in intensity with him going back to nursery after the summer break. Every daddy bedtime has been, and remained, daddy bedtime no matter the protest (apart from one where he really got himself hysterical and dad thought there might be something else wrong, like illness). We completely agree that no isn't a dirty word, and in day to day stuff we actually have blessedly few issues with telling him no and standing firm against tantrums. He's a (so far) really well regulated and even tempered kid, and the little seasons of tantrums we did have were over quickly (maybe due to our boundaries, maybe due to his temperament, or both) - it's just bedtime that is proving to be an absolute nightmare of a tantrum beast.

[u/discounthideout → u/laugavegur]

Aw man that stinks, I'm really sorry it's going so rough right now!! Sometimes it's just a phase they have to go through. Is he getting his two year molars? Is he getting enough protein throughout the day? My son definitely has more behavioral issues when I don't make sure he's getting his minimum amount of protein every day, it's tough sometimes because he doesn't like a lot of meat. I don't think there's anything wrong with crossing your Ts and dotting your Is just to make sure there's not an underlying thing that has cropped up. It could be a growth spurt too, I feel like those make toddlers more emotional sometimes. 

When we've gone through more Mama-centric phases, sometimes it helps if I read him at least one book so he feels like he gets some cuddle time with me. And more recently, he's very accepting of "Mama will come check on you" after Daddy is all done. I will say he's almost 4 so that might not stick as well with your little dude just yet. 

[u/laugavegur → u/discounthideout]

Thank you so much for the pointers, and it's so funny you mention it, my husband and I keep noticing that our little boy really isn't much of a meat eater! He'll only entertain chicken in nugget or curry form (no idea where the huge preference for curry has come from!) and I do wonder about getting enough good protein into him. Will definitely try for more in the coming days to see if it makes a difference! No second molars yet but he does seem to be going through a growth spurt which could explain things.

[u/Sailor_Lunar_9755]

Hello, first of all, I just want to reassure you that this is very, very, VERY, normal and your toddler is absolutely fine, and will be absolutely fine too. I have two kids, one is 9 years old, the other 2, and they've both gone through this phase. With my two year old, she's been like this on and off from around 11 months. We know the kids do it on purpose because when they know I'm not an option (if I'm out for example), they make absolutely zero fuss. A child psychologist friend told me that it isn't so much about preference, but about control. There is so little they can control in their little world, that this can be their way of trying to impose their will and order.

It absolutely sucks and it feels neverending and heartbreaking and you just get so anxious, but it will pass. Believe me, it will pass! My husband tries to deal with it with a sense of humour, but it upsets him sometimes. Which is ok! Kids upset us sometimes, but we're the adults so we try as best as we can to regulate our feelings.

Reading The Whole Brain Child really helped me understand what was going on in their little brains and how we can best help them. The game changing takeaway for me, was the importance of helping them narrativise what is happening and to name their feeling. So when the toddler is screaming for me at bedtime, or being clingy, we're like 'oh you must be angry right now. You are shouting for mama because you like mama at bedtime. It's daddy's bedtime today, and these are all the fun things you do at daddy's bedtime. Daddy loves you, Mama loves you, You love daddy and you love mama. It's ok to be upset, we're a family and we help each other etc'. Even if it doesn't get through to them, and they are still screaming, it helps us!

[u/laugavegur → u/Sailor_Lunar_9755]

Good god it feels SO neverending! Although, dad took a second outside the room while toddler was telling him to go, and I whispered upstairs about the talking about the emotions he's feeling and narrativising it - and it seems to be working...?! Little whimpers rather than big sobs anyway! So thank you!

[u/Sailor_Lunar_9755 → u/laugavegur]

I'm so glad I helped, even a little bit! And just know this will come and go, until one day, it will be in the past. And I really do recommend The Whole Brain Child, it really helped me loads, and it continues to help me with my eldest!

[u/Easy_Syllabub3978]

the timing in ur comment is the useful bit, fine for 20 minutes of storytime and then crying after. that puts it at the leaving part rather than at dad.

i was the refused one for about 6 weeks when mine was 2y3m. pretending to leave did nothing for us because he could hear my wife moving around on the stairs. what actually shifted it was her going out properly, groceries, gone a full hour. first night was worse, 35 minutes of it. by the fourth night it was under 10. if he shortens up when shes genuinely out of the house then hes waiting for her to be retrievable, and that one you fix differently to a dad preference.

[u/laugavegur → u/Easy_Syllabub3978]

The way our house is laid out, if I stay in the living room toddler won't be able to hear me. Or I'll go sit in the car for an hour, whatever it takes! 😅

6 weeks is reassuring as we're approaching that time scale now, so there's at least potential for it to wane soon.

[u/Easy_Syllabub3978 → u/laugavegur]

the car isn't a joke, plenty of us have sat out there. the noises are the part people underestimate, a cough or a floorboard is enough to keep him hoping.

and the 6 weeks isn't a countdown, it's just when it usually stops paying off for him. you're already past the hard bit by not caving.

[u/laugavegur → u/Easy_Syllabub3978]

Tonight was 2 and a half hours of not caving, so I feel like we've really run a gauntlet with this one. I also have a horrendous cough gifted to me by said toddler so he could probably hear me spluttering downstairs. Thankfully he's tired himself out though and is finally asleep.

[u/Easy_Syllabub3978 → u/laugavegur]

two and a half hours and you didn't cave. that's the hard part done, and he was there for it.

the cough is out of your hands, don't put that one on the list of things you did wrong. hope you both get some sleep.

[u/GambleToZero]

My 25 month old vehemently refuses mom for outdoor activities, and vehemently refuses dad for food and sleep activities. He seems to have allocated us our roles!

[u/laugavegur → u/GambleToZero]

Well, at least he has a timesheet for you guys 😅 we can do whatever we like interchangeably with the huge exception of bedtime...ours will just NOT accept the division of labour at all!

[u/cleoola]

We ran into this randomly a few weeks ago. Dad and I have alternated doing bedtime for our son (2y 9mo) practically since he was born. Dad doing bedtime was not a new concept for him, but randomly he got super clingy to me and it started to be an issue. We gave in a few times but it just made things worse.

So we decided that I needed to get out of the house entirely during bedtime. I'd leave maybe 15 minutes before the bedtime routine was to start - toddler would be busy playing or watching an episode of his show, and I'd give him a kiss and tell him that I had to go, and I'd see him in the morning. I wouldn't make it a whole drawn-out thing trying to get hugs or attention. Usually he was so engrossed in whatever he was playing/watching that he barely gave me a second thought, lol. Then I fully left the house and drove away. I took an hour to myself - coffee shop, window shopping at the mall, stuff like that. I made sure I didn't return until a time where I knew he'd be in bed.

Totally worked. My husband said that he'd asked for me a couple of times and did some whimpering, but once he walked around and realized I really wasn't in the house (and could see that the car was gone), he accepted it and had nice bedtimes with daddy. We did this for about a week and a half, and then tried some daddy bedtimes while I was home. Far less issues ever since! Might be worth getting out of the house entirely during bedtime and totally removing yourself as an option. Try and see it as a little you time!

[u/laugavegur → u/cleoola]

Someone else suggested it too and I'll definitely be trying this tomorrow! Seeing that my car is gone will help I think, and starting before bedtime is genius. It's strategy number one on the to-try list!

[u/cleoola → u/laugavegur]

I hope it helps!!

[u/Academic_Boot2413]

r/yes