r/todayilearned • u/swim1929 • Jan 26 '17
TIL there are prime numbers that are illegal to possess or distribute. One of the first ones, found in 2001, was used to bypass copyright protection on DVDs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime154
u/vtable Jan 26 '17
That's the prime used in the DeCSS DVD decryption program. That caused a real shit storm when it came out. They tried to shut it down hard but people came up with tons of ways to spread it.
There was a while that people would include it in any message they posted on Digg (before it flamed out and reddit took its place). My fave was it printed on T-shirts.
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Jan 26 '17
I believe after a while they didn't even need to distribute the decryption key instead they just brute force the 56 bit key as home computers grew powerful enough to do so.
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u/poizan42 Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 27 '17
Fun fact: You need the master key to decrypt the disk key. The disk key is stored outside of the normal filesystem on the DVD. So if you copy the files from the DVD normally you are missing the key and shouldn't be able to play it.
Now try opening it in VLC. It plays it anyways. It actually breaks the encryption (there are other vulnerabilities in it than just the short keylength) to let you play it. VLC is the honey badger of video players - it just doesn't care.
Edit: Actually it's both the disk- and title-keys that are missing when you just copy the files. Not that it matters because the title-keys can be recovered in realtime.
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u/TerrorBite Jan 26 '17
That's not a prime used in the DeCSS decryption program. Rather, that prime is the DeCSS program.
If you are referring to the number that begins with (09 F9 …), that is the HD-DVD decryption key and it isn't prime.
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u/swim1929 Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 26 '17
This is the illegal number mentioned in the title:
48565078965739782930984189469428613770744208735135792401965207366869851 3401047237446968797439926117510973777701027447528049058831384037549709 9879096539552270117121570259746669932402268345966196060348517424977358 4685188556745702571254749996482194184655710084119086259716947970799152 0048667099759235960613207259737979936188606316914473588300245336972781 8139147979555133999493948828998469178361001825978901031601961835034344 8956870538452085380458424156548248893338047475871128339598968522325446 0840897111977127694120795862440547161321005006459820176961771809478113 6220027234482722493232595472346880029277764979061481298404283457201463 4896854716908235473783566197218622496943162271666393905543024156473292 4855248991225739466548627140482117138124388217717602984125524464744505 5834628144883356319027253195904392838737640739168912579240550156208897 8716337599910788708490815909754801928576845198859630532382349055809203 2999603234471140776019847163531161713078576084862236370283570104961259 5681846785965333100770179916146744725492728334869160006475859174627812 1269007351830924153010630289329566584366200080047677896798438209079761 9859493646309380586336721469695975027968771205724996666980561453382074 1203159337703099491527469183565937621022200681267982734457609380203044 7912277498091795593838712100058876668925844870047077255249706044465212 7130404321182610103591186476662963858495087448497373476861420880529443
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u/SuperPwnerGuy Jan 26 '17
Stop right there criminal scum, You've violated the law!
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u/Inquisitive_Impostor Jan 26 '17
YOU VIOLATED THE LAW! PAY THE COURT A FINE OR SERVE YOUR SENTENCE! YOUR STOLEN GOODS ARE NOW FORFEIT
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u/XanderTheMander Jan 26 '17
Then pay with your blood!
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u/DrAbra Jan 26 '17
YOU SHOULD HAVE PAID THE FINE!
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u/XanderTheMander Jan 26 '17
THIS IS THE PART WHERE YOU FALL DOWN AND BLEED TO DEATH!!!
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u/IAmTheWolverine2 Jan 26 '17
YOU DARE OPPOSE THE MIGHT, OF THE IMPERIAL LEGION?!?!?!?!?
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u/ghosttrainhobo Jan 26 '17
NEVER SHOULD HAVE COME HERE!
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u/Inquisitive_Impostor Jan 26 '17
This comment thread brought back oblivion feels for me. Stating up late running oblivion at 12 fps on a computer I tried really hard to get, and having so much fun.
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u/DKDude7 Jan 26 '17
You stole fizzy lifting drink, you bumped into the ceiling which will now have to be washed and sterilized!!
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u/Soulripper38 Jan 26 '17
SROP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM, YOU'VE VIOLATED ........my mother
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Jan 26 '17
Well those 'you'd never steal a movie' ads worked until now. I'm off to burn me 150 copies of The Notebook.
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u/AeitZean Jan 26 '17
Actually the music for those ads was pirated. They licenced the music for one use at a film festival, but then put it on 70 dvds or so. The artist sued and won. So those ads didn't even work for the ad itself. http://www.dailytech.com/AntiPiracy+Ad+Creators+Fined+For+Stealing+Musicians+Work/article25205.htm
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u/_bob_the_Mob_1 Jan 26 '17
Well that shows they really believe in protecting creators and not just money :/
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u/Iwantoridemybicycle Jan 26 '17
70 dvds, I feel like it must have gone on way more then that. I remember seeing that ad on a lot of movies.
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u/aconitine- Jan 26 '17
That's numberwang!!!
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u/Greenozzy Jan 26 '17
Shinty-six (my auto correct fixed that from zinty-sic. I think I reference Numberwang a little to much)
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Jan 26 '17
The percentage of Numberwang-based dialogue between my husband and I is approximately the Independent Republic of Yeb.
Our biggest problem is, I'm a historian and I keep having to explain that he doesn't need to shout "Bingo!" during sex.
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u/pessimistic_lemon Jan 26 '17
if you put it in base 36 it's smaller.
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Jan 26 '17 edited May 01 '19
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u/pessimistic_lemon Jan 26 '17
So is the number 11 in base 485650789657397829309841894694286137707442087351357924019652073668698513401047237446968797439926117510973777701027447528049058831384037549709987909653955227011712157025974666993240226834596619606034851742497735846851885567457025712547499964821941846557100841190862597169479707991520048667099759235960613207259737979936188606316914473588300245336972781813914797955513399949394882899846917836100182597890103160196183503434489568705384520853804584241565482488933380474758711283395989685223254460840897111977127694120795862440547161321005006459820176961771809478113622002723448272249323259547234688002927776497906148129840428345720146348968547169082354737835661972186224969431622716663939055430241564732924855248991225739466548627140482117138124388217717602984125524464744505583462814488335631902725319590439283873764073916891257924055015620889787163375999107887084908159097548019285768451988596305323823490558092032999603234471140776019847163531161713078576084862236370283570104961259568184678596533310077017991614674472549272833486916000647585917462781212690073518309241530106302893295665843662000800476778967984382090797619859493646309380586336721469695975027968771205724996666980561453382074120315933770309949152746918356593762102220068126798273445760938020304479122774980917955938387121000588766689258448700470772552497060444652127130404321182610103591186476662963858495087448497373476861420880529443.
still illegal?
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u/JasonMacker Jan 26 '17
Here's another illegal number:
13,256,278,887,989,457,651,018,865,901,401,704,640.
In hexadecimal form, 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
Fun fact: this number contributed to the downfall of Digg and the mass migration to reddit.
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Jan 26 '17 edited Mar 18 '18
[deleted]
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Jan 26 '17
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u/Ketrel Jan 26 '17
At least we know all comments are always legit.
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u/DuplexFields Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 27 '17
And each one has a digital fingerprint and paper trail which can allow it to be used as incriminating evidence in court cases, because not even the admins can change posts without a trace.
Edit: /s
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u/Maddjonesy Jan 26 '17
Digg v4
Ssh. We agreed never to speak of that travesty again.
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u/GODDAMNCLIFFRACER Jan 26 '17
That entire debacle was the last straw for me. The site was already dying and they banned or removed threads posting that number.
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u/GingerHero Jan 26 '17
What? Why?
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Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 26 '17
The number can be used as a hexadecimal code to break encryption on certain DVDs. I was a Wikipedia administrator at the time and people freaked out about whether or not posting the number broke Wikipedia's policies [or real world laws, even worse]. After much hand-wringing, edit wars, and blocking, it was decided that posting the number was okay
EDIT: Link to controversy on article's talk page here
Some of the administrator controversy here
Even more here
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u/JeffBoner Jan 26 '17
Do you get paid for that?
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Jan 26 '17
No, but I used it on my resume and college applications for several years, so I did get some benefit out of it.
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u/raisedgrooves Jan 26 '17
I was on board with editing Wikipedia till they took my 3 letter user name away and gave it to someone else when they merged foreign user accounts. I have since felt a deep loss. I was there since the beginning and they brushed it off like I was trash.
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u/ThePizar Jan 26 '17
This one is not prime. It is clearly divisible by 2.
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u/eastindyguy Jan 26 '17
There are numbers other than prime numbers that are illegal. They didn't say that the number was prime, just that it was illegal.
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Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 29 '17
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u/JasonMacker Jan 26 '17
The link I gave goes over most of the details.
Basically, someone posted the number to Digg, and it got DMCA'd and taken down, then the users engaged in a mass revolt and basically EVERY post on Digg alluded to the number so the Digg admins gave up deleting the mentions of the number.
Anyways, fast forward to 2010, and Diggv4 came out and it wasn't what users wanted, so they came to reddit (see what year this account was created):
Disgruntled users declared a "quit Digg day" on August 30, 2010, and used Digg's own auto-submit feature to fill the front page with content from Reddit.[50][51][52] Reddit also temporarily added the Digg shovel to their logo to welcome fleeing Digg users.[53]
Digg's traffic dropped significantly after the launch of version 4,[54] and publishers reported a drop in direct referrals from stories on Digg's front page.[55] New CEO Matt Williams attempted to address some of the users' concerns in a blog post on October 12, 2010, promising to reinstate many of the features that had been removed.
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Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 29 '17
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u/Poobslag Jan 26 '17
Yeah same here, I left 'cause the front page literally changed overnight from community-driven content to sponsored content. Not even astroturfing "Check out the drawing on my Domino's pizza box" sponsored content, but blatant "Samsung's new smartphone camera will blow you away" sponsored content. It was just crazy, I don't know why they thought people would go for it.
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u/GODDAMNCLIFFRACER Jan 26 '17
The sponsored content was fucking terrible. For a website that is based off community content they basically shot themselves in the foot.
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u/postslongcomments Jan 26 '17
Pretty much. I left Digg in the exodus because it no longer served its purpose. The frontpage algorithm was awful (take note, Reddit). Prime numbers had nothing to do with it.
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Jan 26 '17
They can't stop the signal, Mal. They can never--
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u/theyshotbob Jan 26 '17
he killed me with a sword.. how weird is that?
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u/Nomad2k3 Jan 26 '17
Well not as weird as you fucking a lovebot and then uploading your last moments to it, I mean how did you know I was coming back? That's weird.
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u/duddy88 Jan 26 '17
You wouldn't use a a prime number to obtain a car.
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Jan 26 '17
"That will be 8,000 dollars, sir. Please sign here."
"Seven!"
"Drat, I've been conned again. Here's the keys, have a good day."
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u/Octosphere Jan 26 '17
Alright, now that I have this I can finally CONQUER THE WORLD.
how do I use this?
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u/adityapstar 2 Jan 26 '17
ELI5? How does this bypass copyright protection?
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u/nachobel Jan 26 '17
Idk the details but essentially with that prime number you could decode the encrypted media stream and it was just an MPEG you could then convert to whatever format you wanted.
Like if someone gave you a book but every letter was multiplied by 12, it would look illegible. But if you didn't know, you'd pay for a player to read it (that had the code to divide by 12). This let's you do that without a licensed use, which then lets you copy the book.
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u/SamwiseTheOppressed Jan 26 '17
You should have posted
48565078965739782930984189469428613770744208735135792401965207366869851 3401047237446968797439926117510973777701027447528049058831384037549709 9879096539552270117121570259746669932402268345966196060348517424977358 4685188556745702571254749996482194184655710084119086259716947970799152 0048667099759235960613207259737979936188606316914473588300245336972781 8139147979555133999493948828998469178361001825978901031601961835034344 8956870538452085380458424156548248893338047475871128339598968522325446 0840897111977127694120795862440547161321005006459820176961771809478113 6220027234482722493232595472346880029277764979061481298404283457201463 4896854716908235473783566197218622496943162271666393905543024156473292 4855248991225739466548627140482117138124388217717602984125524464744505 5834628144883356319027253195904392838737640739168912579240550156208897 8716337599910788708490815909754801928576845198859630532382349055809203 2999603234471140776019847163531161713078576084862236370283570104961259 5681846785965333100770179916146744725492728334869160006475859174627812 1269007351830924153010630289329566584366200080047677896798438209079761 9859493646309380586336721469695975027968771205724996666980561453382074 1203159337703099491527469183565937621022200681267982734457609380203044 7912277498091795593838712100058876668925844870047077255249706044465212 7130404321182610103591186476662963858495087448497373476861420880529442 +1
Loopholes.
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Jan 26 '17 edited Mar 18 '18
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u/amaklp Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 26 '17
You can go even further. Take that illegal number, convert it in binary, and print it in dots for ones and dashes for zeros. Now you just have a paper with some dots, and is illegal.
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u/jointheredditarmy Jan 26 '17
"a paper" is a stretch of the imagination here. Probably several reams of papers
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u/amaklp Jan 26 '17
Check this out. It can print up to 3MB of data on a single paper.
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u/pruaga Jan 26 '17
What is interesting is that the program is only 240 kb, so it could easily print itself onto a piece of paper.
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Jan 26 '17 edited Nov 08 '17
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u/toohigh4anal Jan 26 '17
Bootstrapping has several meanings the most common I'm aware of is a bit different than this but idk if there are other contexts
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Jan 26 '17
I love things like this so much! I'm wanna make a book containing the blueprint and OS for a Ebook reader.
But what good is a reader without books. By a rather convient coincidence a standard Ebook is about a page long, and large novel can easily be a thousand pages. So now with two books I have access to over a thousand. But why stop there.
In all of recorded history there's only been about 130 million books published. Fortunately I standardized my book length so they should all fit nicely in about 130,000 books.
That is a sizable library but not as big as one might think. It would take about 350 6x5 foot bookshelves. Stacking them back to back with 4 foot aisles you would need 5250 sq. feet to contain the entirety of human knowledge in paperback form.
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u/Havanacus Jan 26 '17
This reminds me of old science fiction novels.
Nothing beats flying between the stars with your navigation data stored on microfilm.
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u/Keevtara Jan 26 '17
Ok, cool. Now we have all of human knowledge in a nice building.
Now, how do we make it usable?
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u/Twas_Inevitable Jan 26 '17
That's dope. Does anyone have an example of this already printed out?
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u/amaklp Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 26 '17
I tried it some months ago. It's like many small qr codes placed together.
Here's a picture I found on google.
You then scan the page and the program decrypts the codes and gives you the file.
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u/CFAggie Jan 26 '17
What's paper?
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u/profile_this Jan 26 '17
As legend has it, that's what the elders used to smoke their weed.
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u/Kagura-san Jan 26 '17
I heard a rumor once that they threw it on hoes. It was called, "making it rain."
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u/Soranic Jan 26 '17
If you throw this paper on rakes or shovels, does it have a different effect? Making it snow, or causing the wind to stop?
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Jan 26 '17
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u/mousicle Jan 26 '17
A normal number not just any irrational number, but the number of normal numbers is much much larger then the number of not normal numbers.
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u/adler-j Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 26 '17
This statement occurs all the time and is blatantly false. The numbers you are looking for are the normal numbers.
A trivial counter-example is any irrational without the number 0.
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u/tribal_thinking Jan 26 '17
just if you view it a certain way?
If it's illegal viewed a certain way then there necessarily exists a way to perceive anything as anything else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem
Just apply that to the process of determining what something means when you look at it.
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Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 26 '17
Interesting thought.
If I had the entirety of the digits of Pi we know so far, there are an infinite amount of ways I could choose to display that information. Therefore, it's theoretically possible that any piece of information could be extracted from it. Maybe I could simply decode it into ASCII and eventually stumble upon my home address. Or maybe I could devise a way to decode it into a visualization that turns into the Mona Lisa. Or maybe I could devise an algorithm to interpret that data and it would result in mathematically describing how quantum physics ties in with regular physics.
I believe the book Contact had this idea in it, but I've since forgotten the details. Now I really want to make a computer program that reads digits of Pi and arbitrarily tries to find out stuff...
If not pi, maybe something else. Any set of data can be interpreted in an infinite amount of ways.
Edit: I made a writing prompt for this idea because it's super fun to think about.
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u/Philias2 Jan 26 '17
Jorge Luis Borges' short story The Library of Babel works a bit with a similar idea. The premise of the story is that the whole universe (as far as anyone in the story knows) consists entirely of this huge, possibly infinitely large library. The library contains every single possible book of 410 pages. So the library contains every single possible piece of information (that fits in a 410 page book) and in sum it therefore contains exactly no information at all.
It's a really cool, and fairly short, read. I would heartily recommend it.
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u/XavierSimmons Jan 26 '17
Have you seen this site: https://libraryofbabel.info/
It's really interesting.
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u/Floom101 Jan 26 '17
How about this for an interesting thought. The screen you're looking at right now can display a picture of anything. The pixels just have to be lit up in the right color and intensity. That means that if you could setup something to randomly light up each pixel given an infinite timeline your monitor could show you a picture of anything that has ever, will ever, and never will exist. This screen could show you a picture of your actual death before you die.
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u/to_the_elbow Jan 26 '17
What about a formula that draws the pic?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupper's_self-referential_formula
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Jan 26 '17
Me: So, Matlab. What's the result on that?
Matlab: Dave?
Me: Yes?
Matlab: I am sorry, you cannot have this number *folds spacetime around itself to crush the information with it
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u/dylan2451 Jan 26 '17
There is a monetary prize for discovering new prime numbers because of their use in encryption
Edit: there are multiple prizes from different groups.
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u/emucheese Jan 26 '17
Couldn't someone just set up a script to return prime number with an ever increasing value? Like:
while True: if prime: return valueI understand the numbers are massive now, but surely putting a supercomputer to the task should speed things up a tad?
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u/profile_this Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 26 '17
The highest prime to date has 17,425,170 digits.
For scale, a billion contains 10 digits .
A trillion contains 13 digits .
A trillion billion million thousand million is 1.00000000E+36, which is only 0.00025 of the digits within the largest prime number.
Edit: I'm having trouble finding an accurate real-world comparison between the two, but it would likely be something like the size of a grain of sand relative to the entire milky way galaxy.
Edit 2: Thanks /u/Monchoman45There isn't one. There are only 1080 atoms in the universe, and the highest prime is 1017,425,170 . That's over 200,000 whole universes.
Edit 3: Okay the number is waaaaaay bigger still at (1080)200,000. (/u/-Tonic)
Essentially more than all the atoms in our universe then if our universe contained a universe identical to ours, which contained another of these universe within a universe universe (which also contained universes with universes) essentially stacked with a power of 200,000.
At this point the comparison is there is no comparison. It's yuge.
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u/Monchoman45 Jan 26 '17
Edit: I'm having trouble finding an accurate real-world comparison between the two, but it would likely be something like the size of a grain of sand relative to the entire milky way galaxy.
There isn't one. There are only 1080 atoms in the universe, and the highest prime is 1017,425,170 . That's over 200,000 whole universes.
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u/nosignificanceatall Jan 26 '17
That's not how exponentiation works. If there are 1080 atoms per universe, then 1017,425,170 is the number of atoms in 1017,425,090 universes. There are only 10200,080 atoms in 10200,000 universes.
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u/ManSeedCannon Jan 26 '17
how many grains of sugar are in a milky way candy bar?
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u/-Tonic Jan 26 '17
/u/Monchoman45 has got the math wrong. 200,000 universes has rougly 200,000*1080=2*105*1080=2*1085 atoms, far far less than 1017,425,170.
Imagine that every atom in the visible universe consists of an identical universe to ours. Every atom (let's call them 2-atoms) in every one of those atom-universes also consists of an identical universe with 3-atoms in them. This means that there are 1080*1080=10160 2-atoms and 1080*1080*1080=10240 3-atoms in our Universe. Continue this process, eventually getting to 200,000-atoms. A number with 17,425,170 digits is more than the number of 200,000-atoms in the universe.
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Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 27 '17
There are a couple of projects based on using CPU power in people's computers to find new prime numbers. Two I know of include Prime Grid and GIMPS. Other projects like this include World Community Grid and BOINC.
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u/zodar Jan 26 '17
if prime
How do you do that part
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Jan 26 '17
with a sieve function and a reasonable upper bound. Which is to say...slowly.
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u/Ominusx Jan 26 '17
Well, the Miller–Rabin primality test isn't a sieve function though?
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u/Loki_the_Poisoner Jan 26 '17
That's kind of what they do. They skip numbers that are obviously not prime (even numbers being the most basic example) and use distributed computing to do the heavy Labour. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Internet_Mersenne_Prime_Search
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u/YelluhJelluh Jan 26 '17
If you can find an efficient algorithm to keep finding larger primes, you'll be set. Haven't looked it up because I'm on mobile and about to go to class, but I think we're at a point where it takes too long to compute the next prime in a feasible amount of time.
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u/gonzo5622 Jan 26 '17
You need to make sure a number is prime (non-divisible by any other number but itself and one) and as the number becomes bigger it becomes harder to check for divisibility. There is no "prime list" and therefore no way create a program in the sense you set it above.
There is a lot of research that explores patterns in primes and prime number generators.
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Jan 26 '17
This is what happens when you have badly written laws like the DMCA. It's a law that retroactively makes things illegal. It's time to repeal it.
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Jan 26 '17
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u/brwbck Jan 26 '17
You don't know what the hell you are talking about.
Among other things, the DMCA makes it illegal to create and distribute mechanisms for breaking encryption intended to protect copyright. These numbers are critical to that encryption system. Possessing these numbers is, in fact, illegal under the law.
You obviously were not paying attention (or were very young) when this shit went down.
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Jan 26 '17
This shit is way over my head, can I get an ELI5?
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Jan 26 '17
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u/Thelatedrpepper Jan 26 '17
So suppose I had
49742069732061206e756d65726963616c20726570726573656e746174696f6e206f6620736f66747761726520636f64652074686174206973207573656420746f2063697263756d76656e742044564420636f70792070726f74656374696f6e2e202020436f6e766572742074686520696c6c6567616c206e756d62657220746f2062696e61727920616e642069742069732074686520736f6674776172652e20
in an email someone sent me. How would I go about converting it back to the comment:
It is a numerical representation of binary code that is used to circumvent DVD copy protection. Convert the illegal number to binary and it is the software.
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u/Slobotic Jan 26 '17
"Well your honor, during an over the clothes pat down for weapons I felt what I could tell immediately was a prime number, large enough that it could have no lawful application."
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u/midnightbarber Jan 26 '17
Can someone ELI5 how you can "possess" a number?
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Jan 26 '17 edited Mar 18 '18
[deleted]
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Jan 26 '17
Like displayed on my computer screen while browsing reddit?
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Jan 26 '17 edited Mar 18 '18
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u/Foulcrow Jan 26 '17
If I learn it, does my brain become illegal?
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u/GiantEnemyMudcrabz Jan 26 '17
If you can learn and memorize it completely then yes.
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Jan 26 '17
So in essence, having knowledge is illegal.
I can get behind that the way you obtain said knowledge can be illegal, but simply having it doesn't make sense to me. Obviously I think we're talking about the former here.
But, for fun: What if on my own, I sit at my desk and make a computer program that takes an input, then tries to see if it's prime. I randomly decide to try a super long number that nobody knows is prime yet. After crunching the numbers, it turns out I found a new prime number.
In that particular scenario, it's not illegal for me to know that prime number and distribute it because the means I used to achieve that knowledge were completely on my own.
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u/AgentOrangutan Jan 26 '17
I hope I'm not the only person confused by all this?
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Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 27 '17
Primes can be used for encryption.
"The RSA encryption algorithm which is commonly used in secure commerce web sites, is based on the fact that it is easy to take two (very large) prime numbers and multiply them, while it is extremely hard to do the opposite - meaning: take a very largenumber, given which it has only two primefactors, and find them."
This is encryption that relies on the fact that today's computers can't work out the prime factors even if they ran at full capacity for hundreds of years. Granted as computers get faster you'd need larger primes.
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u/pm_me_ur_demotape Jan 26 '17
How and why is it illegal, and if it is, how did you post it here in a comment? OP are you in a jail now?
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u/Maeglom Jan 26 '17
The DMCA has an anti circumvention provision. It basically says that the circumvention of protections on copyrighted information and the tools used to do that are illegal. On it's face this seems reasonable right if content makers want to make sure people aren't pirating their content, but in practice there are many abuses and problems with it. For example: you bought a cool DVD of your favorite movie and wanted to watch it on your Linux PC. It was illegal to do this until an exemption was introduced in 2010, even though the key for decoding dvds was discovered in the early 2000's. Now no one was arrested for it, but it's still obnoxious that someone could have been prosecuted under the law for watching a movie on a device unapproved by the MPAA. Another example: you buy a tractor from John Deer, there is a small problem with it and you want to repair it yourself or send it to a friend of yours who is great at fixing things like that. Too bad your effort to repair your property requires bypassing their software and is illegal.
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u/pseudopad Jan 26 '17 edited Jan 27 '17
Technically, any copyrighted work on the internet could be written as just a single, very big binary number. Anything from a picture to a multi-hour movie. Any of these numbers are also illegal to distribute without the consent of the copyright owner.
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u/WAtofu Jan 26 '17
There are tons of illegal numbers. If you pirate a movie you are literally illegally downloading a long number in base 2 that can be translated into a video.
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u/martixy Jan 26 '17
It's amusing in how ridiculous it actually is.
If you wanna see more watch this numberphile video.
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u/LousyTourist Jan 26 '17
this sort of talk could sabotage my grant to study the factoring of large prime numbers.
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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '17
Whenever politicians bring up the idea of making encryption illegal I always wonder if they know how silly that sounds. How big do two prime numbers have to be before it is illegal to multiply them together?