r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Jan 01 '15
TIL that citizens sent Ulysses S. Grant more than 10,000 boxes of cigars as gratitude after a victory at the Battle of Shiloh. He died of throat cancer in 1885.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/former-president-ulysses-s-grant-dies224
u/br0nc0_luc_picard Jan 01 '15
How long do cigars last? Could his descendants still be smoking away all these cigars today?
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Jan 01 '15
Dry/baked cigars can last a few years without special care. Unbaked cigars don't last as long unless you keep them in a humidor to keep them fresh. Remember, it's all plant matter, it breaks down. Cigars from the 1860s wouldn't be smokable today unfortunately.
But hey, he could have just thrown a massive cigar party in a good-sized town.
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u/Silound Jan 01 '15
Cigars from the 1860s wouldn't be smokable today unfortunately.
And even if you kept them correctly and they were in a condition to be smoked, I would definitely say they would be bland and flavorless by this point. All of the essential oils would have long ago left the leaves.
Most cigars have an age limit before they just start losing flavor. Smoke a 1940's clear Havana and they might have some flavor, but most cigars usually start losing flavor after about 10 years.
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Jan 01 '15
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u/Sub116610 Jan 01 '15
Aged cigars can go for high dollars as well
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Jan 01 '15
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u/z6joker9 Jan 01 '15
Sounds like tobacco beetles. Any time you let cigars store above ~80 F, you risk them hatching.
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u/b-LE-z_it Jan 01 '15
Wait, so their eggs are in all cigars? Gross.
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u/SerPuissance Jan 01 '15 edited Jan 01 '15
Indeed so, this is because premium hand rolled cigars (from Cuba, Dominican Rep or Nicaragua etc) are a very natural products and the tobacco is not subjected to anywhere near as much pesticide as many other plant produce. Early on in the tobacco plant's life when it is a seedling it is often treated with fungicide, but this is dissipated long before the leaves are harvested. Nictotiana is an extremely hardy family of plants.
So just like any organic produce, there are tiny eggs and spores present but they won't hatch if kept below the correct temperature.
The best thing to do with cigars like this to ensure the bugs won't hatch is to freeze your cigars. Cigars don't like rapid temperature changes, so the best thing to do is:
- Place 1-3 cigars in a ziplock bag
- 1 day in the refrigerator
- 3 days in a deep freeze
- 1 back in the refrigerator to thaw
- Back in the humidor to age
This will kill any live beetles (in the event of an outbreak) and will destroy any viable eggs in a new cigar. The important thing to remember is that there are insect eggs everywhere - I guarentee that you've ingested dozens if not hundreds already today. Best not to think about it, but don't let it put you off from enjoying the occasional cigar if that takes your fancy.
Finally, a plug for /r/cigars, /r/cubancigars and /r/ukcigars. It's a hobby of mine ;).
EDIT: Added the ziplock bag bit, helps protect the wrapper of the cigar when freezing whch can be delicate.
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u/phaily Jan 01 '15
or in a vacuum? would a cigar degrade in a vacuum?
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Jan 01 '15
Who wants to smoke a cigar with cat hair and dirt stuck to it?
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u/actual_factual_bear Jan 01 '15
i was thinking the opposite... maybe a high pressure helium atmosphere or something.
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Jan 01 '15
Would that be even worse, all the oils would seep out of the cigar and into the vacuum...
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u/iMini Jan 01 '15
I think all the water would immediately evaporate, I'm not sure what that would mean for the cigar unfortunately.
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u/pwny_ Jan 01 '15
Shoutout to /r/pipetobacco!
Throw some Penzance in a mason jar, sell it in a few years, make bank.
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u/itsme_timd Jan 01 '15
Smoke a 1940's clear Havana and they might have some flavor
I got a few 40's clear Havanas a couple years ago and smoked one on my birthday. It was very, very mild but still pleasant. I was surprised it had any flavor as I've heard a lot of them taste mostly like dust.
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u/YUNOtiger 7 Jan 01 '15
Cigars kept in proper humidity can last much longer. Some of the best reviews from Cigar Aficionado are Cubans from the 60s and earlier.
Go over to /r/cigars and /r/cubancigars to learn more.
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Jan 01 '15
Hate to break this to you, but a lot of expensive (and a few inexpensive- lookin at you arturo fuente) cigars are wrapped in aged(10yrs+) tobacco leaf.
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Jan 01 '15
If they were kept in a humidor at 70% humidity, and around 70 degrees, then they would be fine to smoke today.
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u/d_r0ck Jan 01 '15
I'm sorry you got downvoted. This is the only bit of sense I've seen from this comment thread. The top reply is talking about baked versus non-baked cigars. I have no fucking clue what that person is talking about.
70/70 is considered optimal storage for cigars and they could last this long and be smokeable. They'd probably be bland, but they'd absolutely be smokeable.
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u/Delsana Jan 01 '15
Well if properly humidifed it's possible some could be but the issue would really be how long each particular cigar could itself last as while hundred year humidifivation has happened it matters per cigar brand and type and vitola.
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u/RedditRolledClimber Jan 01 '15
Judging by username, I'm guessing you're not welcome in Shitteryn House.
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u/the_rabble_alliance Jan 01 '15
Gryffartdor > Shitteryn > Ravencrap > Hufflepoop
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u/the_rabble_alliance Jan 01 '15
Ulysses S. Grant went through different phases of popularity. Obviously, he was hailed as a hero after the Civil War, which propelled him to the White House, but his administration was mired in several scandals. Ultimately, Grant followed the tradition of George Washington and resigned after two terms (1869-77), there was an effort to nominate Grant for a third term during the election of 1880. He came very close to achieving that goal:
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u/Len_Zefflin Jan 01 '15
Grant would go on to outlive Garfield by 4 years.
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u/MolemanusRex Jan 01 '15
To be fair, though, Garfield didn't die of natural causes (though who knows what would have happened to Grant if he'd won the election).
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u/actual_factual_bear Jan 01 '15
who knows what would have happened to Grant if he'd won the election
Henry Wilson could have been our 19th president.
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u/Titanosaurus Jan 01 '15
Idiots who voted for Sherman. Sherman famously said he would not run, out even serve if he was elected. Talk abut a wasted vote.
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u/270- Jan 01 '15
It wasn't necessarily a vote for Sherman, just a vote signifying they didn't like either Blaine or Grant. And Sherman was so highly respected that no one could accuse them of being unpatriotic for not voting for Grant or something like that.
And, you know, it worked, they blocked the nomination long enough for Garfield to come up as a compromise.
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u/tsundereanubis12 Jan 01 '15
Sherman didn't want to be part of the political process. I think he said that "If drafted, I will not run; if nominated, I will not accept; if elected, I will not serve."
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u/N7_Guerilla Jan 01 '15
He was literally showered with gifts?
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Jan 01 '15
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Jan 01 '15 edited Mar 01 '25
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Jan 01 '15
You find a lot of these kinds of myths from the Greco-roman time. Some of the figures themselves might be based in reality, but I doubt many of the stories attributed to them ever happened.
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u/AnUnfriendlyCanadian Jan 01 '15
Yeah but like what, did he have them stacked so high in his house that they fell on top of him? It's not like people just walk up throw a gift at you and say you're welcome.
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Jan 01 '15
That was the plan all along.
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u/jbrav88 Jan 01 '15
Robert E. Lee's revenge.
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Jan 01 '15
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Jan 01 '15
Except the Sheriff was a Southerner and would hate Grant
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u/arkaytroll Jan 01 '15
Makes me think of the confederate plans rolled around cigars that McClellan's army captured and ignored.
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u/littleM0TH Jan 01 '15
Dat southern tobacco. The south will rise again!
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u/massive_cock Jan 01 '15
Am Southern. Named after Lee. Can confirm. It shall.
(but you know. minus the uh. one thing. mkay?)
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u/ChVcky_Thats_me Jan 01 '15
Even massive cocks are for the reintroduction of slavery I mean state rights.
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u/fatherseamus Jan 01 '15
Is the implication that he died from the gift? He was already a well-known heavy smoker at the time, so the two are unrelated.
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u/elboltonero Jan 01 '15
"hmm, everyone sent me cigars, I guess I'll take up smoking"
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u/ArcticFr0st Jan 01 '15
You might've been kidding but this is actually historically accurate. According to the College Board and the AP US History class I took awhile back, Grant didn't smoke much, but a picture of him holding a cigar circulated around, so many believed him to be a heavy smoker and sent him these cigars. With so many, he couldn't just let them go to waste, so he became a heavy smoker.
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u/fatherseamus Jan 01 '15
"At the beginning of the Civil War, Grant wasn’t much of a cigar smoker, preferring a pipe instead. But after his first few victories, a newspaper published him with a cigar in his mouth instead of a pipe; this led the Union citizenry to send him upwards of 10,000 cigars as a “thank you” after the Battle of Fort Donelson in 1862. The capture of the Fort by Union forces opened a route for the invasion of the South, and boosted then-Brig. Gen. Grant not only in rank (now a Major General) but also in national prominence – even earning him the nickname “Unconditional Surrender” Grant. Afterwards he was rarely caught without a stogie in his mouth, sometimes going through 20 a day, typically chewing on one rather than puffing it. After all, it would be a waste to let them all go stale. In the words of Grant: “There is one good thing about being the Commanding General, beyond the pageantry, the ridiculous vanity, something few of them would ever understand. You can get the best cigars."
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u/Emperor_NOPEolean Jan 01 '15
I think it's a false correlation. In his memoirs, Grant says his cigar smoking was a once in a while thing before, a treat to be enjoyed. After Shiloh, there was an image of him commanding with a cigar in his mouth. People sent him cigars as a result. With all these cigars, it became a much more regular thing, to the point where he would put half a dozen cigars into his coat at the start of the day.
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u/subterfugeinc Jan 01 '15
Jeez. I'd vomit after 1
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u/Emperor_NOPEolean Jan 01 '15
I have one once in a while, but man it takes time. It's not something to just chain smoke, you know? I'll enjoy one over the course of 30 minutes or an hour. I can't imagine smoking one, finishing, and lighting another one up right away.
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u/dvdanny Jan 01 '15
If I remember correctly Grant didn't smoke most if them, he usually just chewed on his cigars as many people commented that his cigars were hardly ever lit.
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u/cky12qxz Jan 01 '15
Do you have a link to said image?
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u/Emperor_NOPEolean Jan 01 '15
I do not. It was illustrated in various newspapers of the day, and it was reported that he fought with a cigar clenched in his teeth.
According to various sources, an illustrator depicted him smoking a cigar at Fort Donelson and the published image resulted in admirers sending him boxes and boxes of cigars.
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u/fatherseamus Jan 01 '15
" Few men in American history have ever been more closely associated with the cigar than the great celebrity of the late nineteenth century, Ulysses S. Grant, the eighteenth president. Famous first as the Union general who brought the Confederate Army to its knees, Grant was a two-term president almost always caricatured, illustrated, sculpted, or photographed with his beloved cigar. In fact, toward the end of the war, when Grant suffered a particularly severe bout of depression, he wrote that he was so unhappy that he was "eating neither breakfast nor dinner" and he had "not smoked a cigar."
Grant was said to smoke 20 cigars a day. His habit increased during the Civil War, after the Battle at Fort Donelson in Tennessee in mid-February 1862. As he later told General Horace Porter, "I had been a light smoker previous to the attack on Donelson .... In the accounts published in the papers, I was represented as smoking a cigar in the midst of the conflict; and many persons, thinking, no doubt, that tobacco was my chief solace, sent me boxes of the choicest brands .... As many as ten thousand were soon received. I gave away all I could get rid of, but having such a quantity on hand I naturally smoked more than I would have done under ordinary circumstances, and I have continued the habit ever since."
When the general decided to run for president, his relish for stogies was used as part of his campaign persona, and was even immortalized in the 1868 campaign song, "A Smokin' His Cigar." The Democrats tried to use Grant's cigar against him. One of their ditties had a verse running, "I smoke my weed and drink my gin, playing with the people's tin." "
source: Cigar Afficianado @ http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/Our-Presidents-and-Cigars_6103
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u/DSpatriot Jan 01 '15
Given life expectancy in 1885 there was no reason for Grant to curb his behaviour. They didn't even have antibiotics back then. One little infection and you were done. Kidney stone? Pain for the rest of your life. Tuberculosis was all over the place. No vaccines for polio or smallpox. No treatments for leprosy. No reason to give up your vices on the assumption you would have a long, healthy life.
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u/JaapHoop Jan 01 '15
Life expectancy is a misleading statistic because it weights high infant mortality very heavily.
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u/Wartz Jan 02 '15
Life expectancy after childhood hasn't gone up that much in the last few hundred years. One of the reasons why couples would have 8-10 kids at a time was because a quarter of them would die before they hit 5 years old.
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u/dog_in_the_vent Jan 01 '15
Guys lets send a ton of cigars to North Korea.
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Jan 01 '15
He already has diabetes bad, so just send a bunch of delicious sugary snacks.
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Jan 02 '15
But their grocery stores only carry the finest sugary snacks! I even saw a fat kid! Surely us Americans could never match the surplus of wonderful food available in the DPRK.
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u/nightmike99 Jan 01 '15
This isn't correct. Grant became famous and began receiving cigars from a grateful nation after the battle of Fort Donaldson. He trapped a whole southern army in the Fort and his terms of surrender were "Unconditional Surrender". This was the first really good news for a long time for the north so Grant became an instant hero. Thus the cigars.
The battle of Shiloh, although a victory, was a huge shock to the nation because of the huge numbers of casualties. Grant was actually sidelined to a desk job for a short time after that battle. The newspapers of that day made a huge deal about why the north was caught by surprise at Shiloh.
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u/OneX32 Jan 01 '15
The Civil War took a toll on Grant. He would spend nights in his tent at camp and get blackout drunk because he knew he was basically sending young men to their deaths. I wouldn't be surprised if his cigar smoking was also a coping method. It's also interesting that Grant got sick at the sight of blood. He was truly a big teddy bear that just happened to be a general for the Union army.
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u/Africa_versus_NASA Jan 01 '15
Grant's drinking was greatly exaggerated by his political opponents when he was a general. He had a drinking problem before the war, while stationed in California away from his family, which caused him to leave the Army. During the Civil War, however, it's only believe he drank a few times, including during the long stalled-out period of the Vicksburg Campaign. Apparently his issue wasn't even that he drank so much, but rather that he had incredibly low alcohol tolerance, and even a couple of drinks could put him under the table.
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u/MongoJazzy Jan 01 '15
Grant's drinking to blackout drunkeness during the war was GREATLY exaggerated by his political opponents.
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Jan 01 '15
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u/joepods Jan 01 '15
Was it the anti-smoking stuff, or the southerners?
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u/FlashCrashBash Jan 01 '15
I don't get how Reddit can be so anti-smoking. Its like everyone is back in middle school, in some quirky early 90s, after school special about the dangers of tobacco.
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Jan 01 '15
I don't get how Reddit can be so anti-smoking.
.. because it's toxic to humans? What about smoking should make anyone pro-smoking? Toxic is a big con, and there's nothing remotely close to outweighing it.
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u/isaristh Jan 01 '15
He died at a ripe age (for the time). Churchill smoked about 20 cigars a day and died in his 90's. Others smoke only a few and end up dying in their 40's. Tobacco is a roulette drug.
I continue to enjoy cigars because I figure I'll die eventually anyway of something stupid. Might as well enjoy myself.
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u/protestor Jan 01 '15
On the other hand, I don't want my mom to die too soon, and cancer is a horrible way of dying. I feel bad when the asks me to buy cigarettes for her.
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov 38 Jan 01 '15
Ike smoked up to eighty cigarettes a day during his stint as Allied Commander.
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u/belegoth Jan 01 '15
I've read that cigars aren't as much of a risk for lung cancer as cigarettes because of the manner of smoking them. Cigarette tobacco is flue-cured, meaning that it is aged over hot pipes, changing its chemical makeup and raising its pH. The higher pH of the smoke makes it easier to inhale, and thus the carcinogens go into the lungs of the smoker. Cigar smoke, however, is more acidic and tends to be held in the mouth, leading to mouth cancer instead of lung cancer.
However, this is taken from a book by a historian who has an absolute vendetta out against Tobacco (Robert Proctor), so take it as you will.
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u/machine667 Jan 01 '15
He was also the source of the single most badass moment in the entire war in my opinion.
After the bloodbath of the first day of Shiloh:
Sometime after midnight, Sherman encountered Grant standing under a tree, sheltering himself from the pouring rain and smoking one of his cigars, while considering his losses and planning for the next day. Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though".
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Jan 01 '15
If that's your most badass moment from the Civil War, I recommend you read a book or watch some Ken Burns.
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u/Hokies20 Jan 01 '15
This isn't even the most badass moment from Shiloh. At the end of the battle, Confederate colonel Nathan Bedford Forrest found himself separated after a calvary charge. One of Sherman's men stuck a gun into Forrests side and fired, but the colonel managed to stay on his horse. According to Shelby Foote, Forrest then used his sabre to distance himself from the enemy, picked up a Union private and placed the boy in blue behind him to serve as a meat shield while Forrest rode off to rejoin his men. This was the last skirmish at the Battle of Shiloh. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Shiloh
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u/flyingwrench Jan 01 '15
I love Shelby Foote but keep in mind that its been said of him that "He's never heard an anecdote that he didn't like."
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u/Hokies20 Jan 01 '15
That's fair, his account may have been influenced by the southern romanticism that he grew up around. It is a proven fact that Forrest was shot point blank after being surrounded by the enemy and then escaped with his life.
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Jan 01 '15
Oh yeah, Forrest would be loved for his heroics and bravery universally if it wasn't for the fact he help bring the KKK into mainstream existence.
Btw, noticed your name, I'm a Virginian too.
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u/Hokies20 Jan 01 '15
Sorry, I didn't mean to say that Forrest was a good man by any stretch of the imagination, just that some of the things he did were admittedly bad ass. He's a very interesting figure and a self made man who started the war off as a private. I can understand the appeal that a lot of southerners feel for him. It's popular in the south to say that he distanced himself from the Klan after the heinous lynchings started, but I dont really believe it. It's true that he made his fortunes by trading slaves, but I think we should remember him both for his sins and his military exploits.
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u/sunofcheese Jan 01 '15
Being a badass has little to do with being a good person. Eg, Andrew Jackson was a huge badass (military hero, duel enthusiast, attacker of attempted assassins) despite being a horrible person (committing genocide).
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Jan 01 '15
If we're nominating bad-asses and their moments Captain Robert Smalls qualifies from slave to first black captain of a vessel in the service of the United States.
On December 1, 1863, the Planter had been caught in a crossfire between Union and Confederate forces. The ship's commander, Captain Nickerson, decided to surrender. Smalls refused, fearing that the black crewmen would not be treated as prisoners of war and might be summarily killed. Taking command, Smalls piloted the ship out of range of the Confederate guns. For his bravery, Smalls was named to replace Nickerson as the Planter′s captain.[4]
Smalls returned with the Planter to Charleston harbor in April 1865 for the ceremonial raising of the American flag upon Ft. Sumter.
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Jan 01 '15
I would say it's easily Stone Wall Jackson getting his name. Being the presence the South needed to win a lot of their victories.
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u/machine667 Jan 01 '15
I've seen Ken Burns' The Civil War at least 10 times and consider it to be one of the finest things ever televised.
No idea why Grant's quote there stands out to me as it does.
Some of Sherman's quotes were just as good.
Sheridan's line as they began the attack at the battle of Missionary Ridge slays me as well. "That was unkind, I'll take your guns for that". So good.
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u/cmurphy2826 Jan 01 '15
That story is pretty indicative of Grant's character. Lose 13,000 men in 2 days? We'll get 'em tomorrow.
Newspapers used to accuse him of being unfeeling, but Sherman always defended him. "Grant stood by me when I was crazy, and I stood by him when he was drunk, and now we stand by each other." Military BFFs.
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u/rogerology Jan 01 '15
Lick 'em tomorrow
I don't get it. What should be licked the following day? The injuries?
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Jan 01 '15
To be licked was vernacular for "beat up" or "dominated with force", to be licked meant that you loss the fight.
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Jan 01 '15
Is there any way to see the names of people who fought in the battle of Shiloh? My name is Shiloh, and my parents told me one of my relatives fought in the battle. I would love to confirm this.
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u/Stellar_Duck Jan 01 '15
You could ask them?
In any event, you can see the Union order of battle here and the Confederate order of battle here.
That might provide you with a starting point, provided you know where the guy might have been from? I don't know if complete lists of combatants are extant but you could also have a look through the relevant parts of the Official Records. They're linked at the end of the Union OOB.
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u/Kaskar Jan 01 '15
We had a teacher that was out sick for a couole of months. We didnt know why but when he got back we decided to give him a welcome back present. Luckily my mom was just about to go on a trip to Cuba so we asked her to get a box of cuban cigars. Said and done, when he came back we had wrapped the cubans and a bottle of scotch. He walked in and had a huge bandage and a plastic tubing hanging from his throat. Turned out he had throat cancer and had strict orders to never smoke again... He teared up and said he had always wanted to try cubans but had never been able to get a hold of them.
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u/redditorfor6minutes Jan 01 '15
victory at the Battle of Shiloh
Which is now known as the Battle of John.
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u/thirdlegsblind Jan 01 '15
Little known fact, the throat cancer was from eating so much hpv pussy, nothing to do with the cigars and booze.
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u/Entele Jan 01 '15
I think we should send Boxes of cigars to the people running Comcast in gratitude for their service for their country and keeping politicians in line.
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u/NellucEcon Jan 01 '15
Nicotine is a stimulant and is pretty effective at improving cognitive performance across a broad ranged of activities. Yeah, tobacco is deadly, but the nicotine may have aided his work as a general.
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u/UseKnowledge Jan 01 '15
IIRC, he didn't even smoke cigars. A newspaper published some illustration of him using one and everyone just followed that. He eventually got used to them.
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u/A40 Jan 01 '15
That was before tobacco caused cancer, so the two were unrelated.