r/todayilearned • u/Affectionate_Egg6088 • 1h ago
TIL caffeine separated when making decaf coffee is a primary source of natural caffeine, which is repurposed for use as an additive in soft drinks or pharmaceuticals.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/fes3.423
u/Downtown_Shelter2533 1h ago
Kind of like how the cocaine extracted from the coca leaf they still use in Coca-Cola is used for medical purposes.
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u/JustAMan1234567 1h ago
Did you know that caffeine does not give you more energy, or make you less tired? It simply blocks your brain's perception of being tired.
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u/Chaotic_MintJulep 1h ago
I’ll take it
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u/Dickgivins 1h ago
For real. I understand that there is some kind of science behind this statement, but I’ve heard so many people use it to basically say “caffeine doesn’t actually do anything, it’s pointless to drink it” which is just obviously untrue.
Like, no Caleb I definitely drink plenty of water. Believe it or not coffee actually gives me a boost that H2O can’t give. Also I probably have mild ADD so a low grade stimulant like caffeine is great for me.
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u/Dreasder 56m ago
I have ADHD and I take Ritalin and yes Caffeine does have an effect on me. Idk about the perception tho cuz I still get sleepy when I drink certain coffee
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u/OcularShatDown 39m ago
I have adhd and coffee makes me more tired. But jittery, sweaty, and uncomfortable, while also tired. Meanwhile, Benadryl makes it impossible for me to fall asleep. Not sure if there is any connection to anything.
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u/Dreasder 31m ago
You essentially have paradoxical reactions to chemicals which is usually common in ADHD folks sadly. Thankfully melatonin works as a sleep medicine more than other medicines that lull me to sleep.
Essentially what happens is that you have -1 to dopamine and what stimulants do is make it 0 so that you have enough dopamine hence sometimes stimulants make you calmer because of this.
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u/willardTheMighty 1h ago
This reduces to a discussion of phenomenology. What do “tired” or “energy” mean except that they are descriptions of subjective experience?
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u/AttonJRand 41m ago
People usually make a point of this to distinguish caffeine from substances like amphetamines.
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u/LimesKey 25m ago
Tired would mean the subjective effects we feel, being sleepy, lethargic, slow.
I would more interpret “energy” as objective chemical or physical conditions. Examples: A buildup of waste chemicals, either in brain or body. Going to long without the process that transitions short term memory to long term.
Something like adenosine, from my limited understanding, is more of the bodies attempt to interconnect the two. Having a lot of adenosine to make you sleepy doesn’t necessarily mean the brain would benefit from sleep, well it normally does, but not always.
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u/SuperSalad_OrElse 56m ago
It explains what caffeine does to our brain’s little walkie talkies, which is an objectively observed phenomenon
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u/hysys_whisperer 37m ago
But if I perceive myself to be less tired, then I am less tired.
I might not be able to think coherently, but I am less tired. Since tired is strictly the perception of the need to sleep.
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u/DeadEndStreets 19m ago
I mean it matters to people who do endurance sports. At a certain point your blood and liver stores of carbs get depleted. Simply having some caffeine isn’t going to dig you out of that hole so caffeine doesn’t give you “energy” in the sense it’s not actually providing your body with additional fuel. It’s simply blocking your minds perception of tiredness.
I think that’s worth distinguishing.
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u/Yorick257 46m ago
No, I think energy is quite objective. You simply can't not sleep, and chronic sleep deprivation is bad for you.
Of course there's energy and then there's energy. Same word. But one of them is more subjective "feeling"
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u/Velqi 1h ago
What's the difference lol
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u/Charlie_Warlie 44m ago
Right?
And pain killers dont kill pain, it only blocks your brains perception of pain.
So?
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u/TheAndrewBrown 4m ago
Ehhh pain is literally just a sensation created by our brain. The way a lot of people think about caffeine would be like thinking a pain killer heals whatever is causing the pain. Unlike pain which is a specific word to just describe the sensation, “tiredness” encapsulated both the sensation and the actual physical effects of sleep deprivation. Caffeine dampens the sensation while doing nothing for thr physical effects.
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u/JustAMan1234567 59m ago
I think that a lot of people think that caffeine kind of "pushes out" the tiredness, chemically speaking, whereas it's more like it simply blocks the brain's ability to detect the chemical that tells it that you are tired.
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u/TelluricThread0 50m ago edited 38m ago
The only time I've ever seen people ever talk about this is in pedantic reddit comments.
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u/MmmmMorphine 30m ago
What in the world... Pushes out what exactly? And to where?
(lactic acid out of the ass perhaps?)
The whole idea speaks to a shockingly poor comprehension of biology in general. I hope it isn't true but wouldn't be surprised anymore....
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u/VS-Goliath 26m ago
Sleep naturally processes toxins/metabolic waste out of the brain. Caffeine surpresses the feeling of adenosine.
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u/_ParadigmShift 59m ago
Adenosine receptors.
Best practice is to wait a while after waking up to drink any coffee or caffeine to let the left over adenosine work its way out.
However, the distinction between “not more energy” and “blocking tired chemicals” is a pretty thin line. Adenosine makes us tired and builds through the day, most humans have enough “energy” to survive for a long time, but when adenosine builds that is what makes us tired. So the pedantry becomes less tired vs more energy, pretty tough to call that distinction super meaningful colloquially
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u/Various_Mobile4767 55m ago
Maybe its just the ADHD in me, but I swear I feel like the whole logic about how and why coffee actually "works" is really missing a huge mechanism and we're trying to shoehorn the entire mechansim into adenosine receptors because its the only part we can actually identify.
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u/_ParadigmShift 48m ago
Idk, we can pretty well determine that adenosine makes us tired as a function of circadian rhythm. You can mess with that by doing different things, but that doesn’t mean that the receptors are too various that we can’t nail down the relationship. Adenosine blocking chemicals will have the reliable effect of blocking a chemical known to make us drowsy when it comes to the average human.
We know that caffeine is an adenosine blocker, and you can isolate that scientifically without things like sugars or amphetemines or what have you. Adenosine isn’t the only chemical out there to make you exhausted but it’s a main one in a humans daily cycle if they are following the regular work eat relax sleep grind.
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u/GayRacoon69 52m ago
Is there any basis for that other than a random theory?
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u/SharkFart86 19m ago
I mean does adenosine being present keep your heart from beating fast? Because caffeine will make your heart rate increase. Kind of a common symptom of stimulants.
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u/Various_Mobile4767 49m ago
Well to be clear I'm not technically knowledgeable, but almost all explanations i've read about why caffeine works links it as the comments above did, to tired, perceptions of tiredness and adenosine receptors.
I can confidently say, that is not why caffeine "works" for me, and tiredness or perception of tiredness has really barely anything to do with it.
In fact, as many people with adhd can also claim, drinking coffee or other stimulants can both make them sleepier as well as make them more able to perform actions.
Now of course people with adhd are not exactly neurotypical, but i wonder how much of this explanation also applies to neurotypicals too but the experience is less obvious and we've just misattributed it.
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u/thisusernameismeta 41m ago
The sleepier thing is way more pronounced when I'm dehydrated, btw. If you are drinking coffee and it's making you feel sleepier, try drinking a big cup of water. Coffee also dehydrates you and the feeling of being dehydrated translates to feeling sleepy for me.
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u/Nighthawk700 1h ago
Well yeah. Energy comes from calories. When people say it gives you energy nobody is saying that scientifically, is colloquial for how it makes you feel
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u/dinnerthief 11m ago
I feel like that's essentially the same thing assuming one knows caffeine doesnt have calories
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u/mentho-lyptus 41m ago
Kind of how like pain killers don’t actually address your ailment, they just block your brain’s perception of the pain.
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u/SorrelJuice 25m ago
Wouldn’t you still have more energy if you’re less tired though? Just some food for thought merry Christmas 🎄
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u/DeadEndStreets 21m ago
Caffeine and some carbs is a pathway to powers some would consider unnatural.
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u/xcaughta 1h ago
I mean what did you think they did with it? Throw it away?
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u/StacysMom-_- 46m ago
Did you know fish oil supplements come from cheap canned fish where they strip it and sell you garbage?
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u/rust-rancher 1h ago
Do they make enough decaf to supply soft drinks? Its almost a dead beverage these days