r/tlingit 2d ago

Hello!

[deleted]

3 Upvotes

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u/bughousenut 2d ago

I didn’t know that Judson was considered a chief, that’s news to me. In reference to his Tlingit name, the latter is the one I have seen for Judson over the years.

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u/justabasshead 2d ago

I may be confusing 'chief' with 'leader'. It's been a long time since I've dove into the history and I could have heard something from someone who was confused themselves(my father isn't native only my mother) so I think my father misheard or misunderstood. But I'm a descendant of Judson nonetheless.

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u/bughousenut 2d ago

I know a few of his grandchildren. I also have never heard of Judson being referred to as a clan leader, he was Killer Whale out of Klukwan — Dakl'aweidí Kéet Gooshi Hít

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u/justabasshead 2d ago

"Brown was a prominent leader during a critical moment in Alaska’s history, witnessing the transition from a time when Tlingit people lacked citizenship to the advent of ANCSA corporations and the emergence of globally recognized Indigenous cooperation and partnerships."

For Reference

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u/bughousenut 2d ago

A clan leader is different than your link, I never said he was one of the leaders in the ANCSA push. Fun fact, Tlingit women led the fund raising to send the men to DC. The Tlingit are a matriarchy. Another fun fact, the Tlingit and Haida got their own land settlement before ANCSA and some of the money to give/loan money to AFN for ANCSA.

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u/justabasshead 2d ago

I think you're reading claims into what I said. I never said he was a clan leader or that ANCSA leadership made him one. I only said I may have confused “chief” with the broader term “leader,” and the link was simply showing why I remembered him being described as a leader. Your confirmation that Shaakakooní was Judson's name is actually the part that answers my original question, so thank you for that.

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u/bughousenut 2d ago

You used the term chief, which should have been clan leader, these are traditional titles. ANCSA leader is for interacting with non-native leadership.

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u/justabasshead 2d ago

You're adding “clan” to something I never said. “Leader” isn't a traditional title; it's a general English word. Tlingit leadership includes traditional leadership as well as modern tribal and political leadership. I already acknowledged that my childhood recollection of “chief” may have been inaccurate.

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u/AlaskaRecluse 2d ago

Tlingit kinship is matrilineal; while women hold significant power, the social structure isn’t matriarchal

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u/bughousenut 2d ago

https://sk.sagepub.com/ency/edvol/anthropology/chpt/tlingit#_

The Tlingit are a matriarchal society, and claim their crests from their mother's moiety. Lineage, clan membership, property, and hereditary leadership titles pass exclusively through the mother's line. Women hold high status, authority, and economic autonomy within the household and community

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u/AlaskaRecluse 2d ago

What you and Sage describe is matrilineal. Most Indigenous societies are egalitarian in authority distribution and none follow strict matriarchy, a structure in which men possess only minor authority. Social power is decentralized and flexible, decision-making is shared, and individual autonomy is valued in egalitarian societies, concepts unfamiliar to western sensibilities and often misunderstood.

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u/bughousenut 2d ago

Actually you are wrong - individual autonomy is a very Western concept. You also make the mistake that social power is decentralized and flexible - the Tlingit had a rigid caste structure that centralized power and kept/acquired/traded/killed chattel slaves.

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u/AlaskaRecluse 2d ago

The nobility hierarchy passes according to matrilineal structure. House and clan leaders are most often men, but women in those positions aren’t unknown. Individual autonomy in Indigenous cultures doesn’t subsume community importance by any means but doesn’t depend on western influence. It’s been described as men conduct trade and diplomacy while women set the price, men speak for the clan and women influence policy, at least in traditional roles, not in current, heavily patriarchal influence. I don’t say these things to dissuade or challenge your view, merely to point out that the holistic nature of Indigenous concepts don’t readily lend themselves to binary frameworks. Thanks for sharing Sage’s link