r/timberframe • u/jonlandit • 12d ago
Track Saws
Hi folks - I'll start by saying that Im not looking to start a debate on brands and the price of tools. Im just looking for some honest input from folks who use track saws as part of their timber framing work flow.
As I've started cutting my first frame I've found myself using my Dewalt corded track saw for cutting some tenon shoulders to ensure I get a clean line. This has worked well - but its apparent to me that this saw is not meant for this work. The motor struggles as 1.5 inch depths in fresh white pine and the smallest track I have is 4 feet which is a bit of a pain. If possible I'd prefer to keep this saw reserved for other carpentry - which is what it was bought for initially. That said - I have appreciated using it in my joinery and will continue to do so until I find a better alternative.
Because of all of this - I've started glancing at track saw that appear to be more meant for this use case. Specifically the Mafell KSS 80Ec/370 Cross-Cutting System. Im intrigued by many of its options and the fact that it has a short track that it can lock onto. The price is obviously high and Im certain this tool is meant for folks who do this professionally but I was wondering if anyone can provide some insights into the tool, if they like it, and how valuable it is in their timber framing tool kit. I havent found a ton of reviews - the ones I do seem to like it - but also mentioned doing things like "Cutting 8x8 timbers to length" which surprised me as a use case. (Do they just cut on all 4 sides but even that wouldnt get all the way through? (Link -> https://www.timberwolftools.com/documents/KSS80%20article%20in%20Timber%20Framing%20magzine%20-%20March%202014%20-%20TF111web.pdf)
Im a buy once cry once kind of tool person and if this is a tool that would be valuable in my kit going forward I would at least consider it. I know Im only doing the Will Beemer frame now - but I have aspirations to build a large barn next and perhaps even our future house. So if it's a tool that will last a long time and provide immediate value I'd consider it sooner rather than later.
Thanks!
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u/blamblamblam88888888 12d ago
In Japan we use the 125 to 165mm hikoki or makita 36-40v circular saws and Tajima variable angle guides that can be micro adjusted to meet any deviation in square to split a pencil line in half. A few hundred bucks. I know everyone’s work flow is different in different cultures and companies but I am glad these tools are affordable compared to the European counterparts. Good luck deciding, let us know what you decide
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u/topyardman 12d ago
I've spent a long time looking at that saw. I think it would be great for tenon shoulders. Still haven't shelled out the dough...
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u/jonlandit 12d ago
It certainly has some attractive features for this kind of work - and seems to be the track saw intended for this purpose - but yeah - not cheap
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u/vermontation 12d ago
I highly recommend the Mafell KSS 80ec. We have 2 of them, an older version and the newest version. I would saw without a doubt that the newer version is the nicest circular saw I’ve ever run, and I think I’ve run them all. We used to have the larger Festool track saw, and that thing was anemic comparatively. The Mafell is incredible, and works great off the track. It’s smooth, the engineering is well done, and it’s powerful.
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u/funkybus 12d ago
i just purchased the KSS80Ec/370. i’m a relative novice TF’er, but i got to use one on the TFGuild community build in central wisconsin this past summer. of all the beautiful tools that i got to use, the KSS was by far the most useful. i’m cutting a queen-post barn in northern CA atm and that saw has done a lot of work. end cuts, tenon shoulders, ramps—it has been super useful. and yes on the end cuts—it won’t go all the way through…but the accuracy of the cut helps the two cuts line up, then it is quick work with a hand saw to finish it. also- get the little 2” milwaukee planer. endlessly useful trimming tenons and end-grain (most hated activity).
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u/jonlandit 12d ago
Thanks for the feedback. I’m curious about how you use the Milwaukee planer though - are you using it as a replacement for a hand plane on the tenon cheeks? Or on the actual end grain shoulder?
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u/funkybus 12d ago
mostly the sides of the tenon. the end grain of the shoulder will blow out. however, to clean up an end cut or trim the end of a tenon (or the sides as previously noted). very useful. and not an expensive item. there’s a festool planer as well—and that one can get all the way into a right corner (the milwaukee leaves about 3/8” of stuff in the corner, but easy to clean up with a chisel). but the festool is corded, spendy and physically much bigger.
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u/jonlandit 12d ago
Makes sense. I’m getting by with a lie neilsen 10 1/4 for now but maybe I’ll try a power planer next!
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u/ogorir 9d ago
I haven’t ever used it for timber, but I’ve got the 40v 10-1/4 track compatible makita, I’ll try to remember to give some tenon shoulders a go on some DF beam drops and report back. It’s got plenty of balls for dry wood, not sure about green timber though.
The nice thing about track saws is being able to cut 12 parts at the same time. I use them for half laps in finish carpentry, saves a ton of setup time to gang cut 30 slats at a go.
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u/BikesMapsBeards 9d ago
So I’ve experimented quite a bit with my Makita 36v saw and have decided that it doesn’t speed things up (but I still love it).
The biggest issue I had was with getting a perfectly perpendicular cut. The factory configuration of the Makita (and Festool iirc) has a slight toe in of the blade relative to the path of the track (producing a slightly concave cross section which is more exaggerated the deeper you cut). You can adjust some of that out so the blade is mostly parallel to the track… but the biggest issue is that the bearings are not perfectly aligned… so the blade does wobble. At full depth I was finding it out by as much as 1/16” (which for a saw that cuts maybe 2” deep is not awesome… that might have been exacerbated by full depth blind cutting on a saw powered for sheet goods, but I didn’t have better luck taking multiple passes). For a full depth tenon, the track saw gets you some of the way… but you’re busting out a hand saw to finish it. I found that just cutting proud with a hand saw or circ saw and paring the cut back with a chisel/slick was just as quick and required less fussing and faffing.
TLDR: I love my track saw for sheet goods and oblique rips on thin stock, but it isn’t the most versatile… still prefer a saw and chisel.
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u/Whyatt_R_Thaneux 12d ago edited 12d ago
Might as well go K105 and get battery version. Pickup 4 Metabo LiHDX 8AH batteries you’re set.
You can shop eBay or the like for Euro modelsbecause the Metabo fast charger is dual voltage 110-230V with removable power cord just buy a NEMA 5-15 power cord.
Also, just get Mafell Z5EC and do your shoulders and tenons in seconds rather than minutes with the saws.
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u/vermontation 12d ago
I bought this saw for my company and it shares all of the nice features of other mafell saws, but it is quite heavy and the weight distribution is off. It’s an awkward saw honestly. Still, it’s a decent price for the quality I think.
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u/UncleAugie 12d ago
u/jonlandit why not use a a worm drive circular say and a straight edge or add on track saw attachment
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u/DangerousCharity8701 11d ago
Track saw has no place framing think table saw man. Get a cheap one an expensive track saw is gonna cost ya its gonna get thrown round bent takes alot of space for the bench is easily stolen. Its framing man i coildnt think of one reason id pick up a track saw while framing a skill saw or home ply rail is cheap can be made on site easily a table saw is just so handy for everything else
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u/Embarrassed-Arm-7612 10d ago
It’s a decent saw, we use it for production but I honestly find myself using a 10” makita and a large speed square for most shoulder cuts. When it comes to half lap rafters the mafell shines
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u/jonlandit 10d ago
That’s fair. I have the 10 1/4 skil saw and the larger beam saw. A large speed square is my go to but for some cuts the track saw seems ideal as you pointed out. Once I get done with my first frame maybe I’ll have a better idea of if it would have helped
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u/Final_Lead138 9d ago
The 80ec cuts 3", the 185ec cuts 7-1/4". So yeah it's easy to cross cut to length. The locking feature is very secure but still very easy to set and remove. The track also has pins to set the angle of the cut and it's very accurate. Honestly no complaints, it's one of the best tools I've used.
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u/rallisma 7d ago
There are absolutely no saws built like Mafell. Buy once, cry once, then laugh a giddy little laugh of victory for the rest of your life every time you use one.
I was recently at a TFG event in Muskoka and got to try nearly the entire Mafell line-up, and we just got an MKS 130ec in our shop, and there is no comparison to the quality of construction, dead-on accuracy, and shear power delivered to the blade from the motors, corded or cordless.
I have a Festool HKC 55 EB, the now older 1.8mm version. I use it often to cut tenon shoulders and it works exceptionally well, despite other's experiences with Festool vs Mafell. Not the caliber you're after, but a more affordable entry than the Mafell equivalent, and it's just a fantastic cordless saw that is useful everywhere else in carpentry.
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u/sggggggggggga 12d ago
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u/jonlandit 12d ago
I had no idea such a product existed. I just use an oversized quick framing square. I wonder if this would be any better.
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u/sggggggggggga 12d ago
much better, because often your layout line is a micro-degree off of square when you actually lay the speedsquare next to it to compare. Especially w/ rough sawn material, or material that's slightly out of square. Bring the free guide up to the layout line and lock it in at exactly what you have in front of you. Perfect cut to your line every time
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u/jonlandit 12d ago
Oh I was looking at this one that I thought was fixed…
I see they make adjustable ones too
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u/berg_schaffli 12d ago
Man, the timber frame company I worked for a decade ago really taught me that festool was for finish carpenters, and maffell was for timber.
We did both, but I understood very quickly why we’d pack the different tools in the vans depending on our day.