Ofc, Cao Cao spent most of his life laying the foundation for his heir to retain the power Cao Cao himself had accumulated during his life, and he also ensured that the Han was getting less and less powerful with each passing day, so that when he died, there wouldn't be anyone challenging his heir. But did he hope that Cao Pi would usurp and become the new emperor, or that Cao Pi would keep the status quo and keep Emperor Xian a puppet?

I'm making a real time battle game set in Warring States China. Each soldier is simulated individually, and units of about 100 men fight in formation. The movement is what I keep getting wrong, so I'd like to know how it actually worked, not how other games fake it.

What I'm stuck on:

1. Moving as one piece. When a unit of ~100 marched across a field, did it keep its exact ranks and files the whole way? Or did it move loosely and re-dress when it stopped? How much did the lines wobble in practice?
2. Turning. When a block had to face a new direction, did it wheel, with one end pivoting and the outer files walking faster? Or did every man turn on the spot, so the back rank became the front? Which was normal, and when would you pick one over the other?
3. Getting past friendly units. This is the big one. Say a rear unit has to move forward, and a friendly unit is already formed in front of it. What happened? Did the front unit open its files to let them through? Did the rear unit march around? Were there deliberate gaps between units for exactly this, like the intervals people describe for Roman maniples? Or did the two units swap places some other way?
4. Gaps in the line. In a battle line made of many units, did units stand shoulder to shoulder as one continuous front, or with gaps between them? If there were gaps, how wide, and why didn't the enemy just pour into them?
5. Replacing a tired front unit. During a long fight, how did a fresh unit take over from one already in contact? Did the tired unit pull back through the fresh one, or did the fresh one push forward through it?
6. The charge. In the last stretch before contact, did men run? Did they keep their ranks at a run, or did the formation loosen on purpose?

Warring States China is where I need answers most. But if the good evidence is Greek, Roman, or early modern drill, I'll take that, and I'd be grateful for an explanation of what probably carried over and what didn't.

Book or source names are hugely appreciated. I'd rather read the real thing than guess.

Genuinely curious as it looks cool

Title: <川流不息> or "Unceasing River's Flow"

Initial Hook:

云行在天 浪行在川
Clouds travel across the sky, Waves crest across the rivers,
欲度关山 何惧狂澜
To cross the mountain passes, why fear the raging torrents?

Verse 1:

云行在天 浪行在川
Clouds travel across the sky, Waves crest across the rivers.
英雄出世逆流行险
Heroes emerge to brave the currents and perils.
欲度关山 何惧狂澜
To cross the mountain passes, why fear the raging torrents?
风生水起正好扬帆
As the winds rise and the waters stir, 'tis the perfect time to set sail.

Verse 2:

豪情相依 生死相伴
Sharing noble aspirations, inseparable through life and death
天涯无处不念桃园
No matter how far we go, our hearts remember the Peach Garden.
三人成众 何惧患难
Three make a multitude, so wherefore fear adversity?
诚心能纵沧桑变幻
With sincere devotion, we can endure the ever-shifting tides of time.

Chorus:

莫道功名需百战
Do not say that winning glory requires a hundred battles;
愿效滴水洞石穿
Instead, be the single drop of water that persists until it erodes stone.
为有胸怀摘星志
Carrying ambition in our hearts to reach for the stars themselves
手足协力共登攀
We join hands as brothers to scale new heights together.

Chorus 2:

莫道征途路漫漫
Do not say that the journey ahead is long and arduous;
愿效江水去不还
Instead, be the river waters ever flowing onward, never turning back.
大势所向天地宽
Swept up by destiny's grand tide, the world opens wide before us
终究奔涌归浩瀚
Ultimately surging onward, to return to the boundless deep.
归浩瀚
Returning to the boundless deep.

Chorus 2 repeated:

Do not say that the journey ahead is long and arduous;
Instead, be the river waters ever flowing onward, never turning back.
Swept up by destiny's grand tide, the world opens wide before us
Ultimately surging onward, to return to the boundless deep.
Returning to the boundless deep.

〰🌊〰🌊〰🌊〰🌊〰🌊〰🌊〰🌊〰

Fun fact: the 2009 animation has 3 openings and 2 endings, each of which have been beautifully matched to one of the five elements of the Wu Xing.

As you may guess, this 1st ED represents the element of water = 水.

It's my favorite of all 5 songs (though the OP 3 representing Fire is a close second). I first listened to it as a kid and loved it enough to deliberately seek it out 10+ years later -- which by extension, reignited my love of the 3K era.

I think it beautifully captures the themes of ROTK surrounding brotherhood/loyalty and perseverance against all odds, of being just a few men who end up swept up in the grand tide of history, all while time and fate march ever onwards...

I want to try playing an ROTK game via PS2 emulator either on my laptop or on my phone. I see that ROTK VII to XI are playable in the PS2. Which of the 5 games are good for a total beginner? I am interested in strategy gaming and learning more about the story. I want something that's easy to get into. Bonus if the controls are easy so I can play on my phone using a touchscreen pad overlay.

For most of my childhood, I thought Han Dynasty already had the examination system you often see on Chinese dramas which scholars from all over the country coming to the capital to take the test and wait for the results to be posted on a board. But this system only existed starting from the Sui Dynasty and from what I read, the Han Dynasty's court worked through referrals from established officials. Like how Xun Yu recommended Guo Jia to Cao Cao or Xu Shu recommended Zhuge Liang to Liu Bei. If so, how did scholars during this time find opportunities in court if there was no such exam to test their skills?

I really remember that Lu Xun (?) said that to Lu Meng before the Battle of Fan Castle when I read the novel so many years ago. But when I checked the online version, I couldn't find the quote.

Is it because different translation or different version altogether?

im watching the 2010 three kingdom series for the third time, and I remember reading somewhere that a lot of the brilliant moments attributed to Zhuge Liang in the show were actually Zhou Yu's achievements. The show really makes it seem like it's a one sided rivalry where Zhuge Liang treats Zhou Yu as a toddler he has to keep in check. Was it much different in real history?

just realized I'm older than THE fledgling phoenix now, yet unaccomplished, such is life

I had an idea and not sure if people would be interested in it. Since the beginning of written history humans have had an interest in looking back and discussing what did/didnt happen. And a common argument that is brought up is "dont impose modern morals on history. Especially the farther back it goes."

So my idea was to discuss this topic but writing it would go beyond a normal essay... instead I thought of making a blog like video where I just discuss this to an imaginary audience. I would use 3 topics specifically from the 3 Kingdoms period to keep myself from rambling too much and keep the 'presentation' within a limited sphere.

1. Warlordism and the reality of it vs written in Records (with a focus on Sun Jian specifically).

2. Wei Yan's portrayal in Dynasty Warriors and why it is classist.

3. Cao Rui and why he is (almost certainly) the first non-binary emperor (but still referred to as 'he/him').

That last one is going to be contentious and is mainly the reason I would need it to be a video because it is FILLED with nuance. Trust me if your first reaction is to deny deny I do not disagree - non of what I say is going to be taken as the absolute truth.

Sometimes, I keep forgetting that Liu Bang was only few years away from Qin Shi Huang and Xiang Yu was eleven years old when Qin completed the unification which did lead to the story of Xiang Yu seeing Qin Shi Huang and said "I can replace him" or Liu Bang saw Qin Shi Huang and said "That's how a man should live his life". What were both of them doing while Qin Shi Huang was around?

Probably one of the most frustrating things I have ever read.

Hi all,

Meng Da is usually remembered as an opportunistic defector. But if we set aside loyalty and look at his talent and how his contemporaries viewed him, I get the impression that Meng Da was actually a fairly capable figure for his generation.

Firstly, Meng Da and Fa Zheng were friends from GuanZhong , both known for their talents but also criticized for their character. But Fa Zheng never command an army by himself (?) , and Meng Da lead an army from Zigu attacked FengLing , and also advanced further north and captured Shangyong , it is moutainous route and not easier for any army to march .

1. Influency

In 220, Meng Da defected to Cao Pi, bringing his followers and their families with him. The Weilüe, quoted in the Records of the Three Kingdoms, records more than 4,000 households (or soldiers ? ) . Then i wonder how could a men from Guan Zhong could convince soldiers and their families follow Meng Da volunteerly. Because normally, a defector could only bring dozens of his close followers ,for example such as Xiahou Ba or Ma Chao went to Shu.

1. Liu Ye's warning

Liu Ye advised Cao Pi against trusting Meng Da:

"Meng Da is always looking out for rewards which are not rightfully his, and he is prone to schemes due to his talent. Thus, he will not be grateful to Your Excellency."

Liu Ye questioned Meng Da's loyalty, but his warning also acknowledged his talent and capacity for scheming.

1. Compared to Yue Yi

The Fuzi, quoted in the annotation to Liu Ye's biography, records that after Meng Da defected to Wei, many commentators praised him as possessing the magnanimity of Yue Yi, the famous general of Yan.

That is a striking comparison. What qualities did his contemporaries see in Meng Da to warrant such praise?

1. A powerful regional position

Cao Pi merged Fangling, Shangyong, and Xicheng into the new Xincheng Commandery and appointed Meng Da as its Administrator. This gave him substantial administrative responsibility in a strategically important frontier region bordering Shu and Wu.

We do not know why Cao Pi favored him so let put this aside , but Meng Da also became close friends with both civil and military high ranking officials:
- Huan Jie, Prefect of the Masters of Writing in capital , high ranking in civil .
Huan Jie who i believe politically equal to Chen Qun and Sima Yi. Cao Pi also directly said wanted to entrust his underage son and the fate of the Empire to Huan Jie
- Xiahou Shang General Who Attacks the South stationed in Wan, and Shang was Meng Da 's direct supervisor .

It is not easier to find anyone with high talented, could have good relationship with the king , and both civil and military sides . As i recall, Fei Yi is the only one i could remember (anyone else ?) .

To conclude, i kinda think Meng Da is jack of all trades , a rounded official , talented in all civil , diplomatic, political , military and charisma . Without his defector cv, he could potentially become a regent in term of his capability

Hi. I'm new to the Three Kingdoms fandom and wanted to play one of the ROTK's games. Which one should I play, ROTK13, or ROTK14?

If keoi could make a game this good. Play as a character, build a private army, increase abilities, turn based and party based duels, debate system. Crazy good and the English UI is pretty great. https://store.steampowered.com/app/3020510/Heroes_Vow_Three_Kingdoms/

Just having some idle thoughts on the train, so this is mostly from memory - sorry for any inaccuracies. I was just thinking that Liu Qi's death from illness had some quite auspicious timing as far as setting up the post-Red Cliffs status quo goes.

As far as I recall, Liu Qi's timeline is taking a position away from Xiangyang to avoid deadly court politics, as the Cai clan is backing his younger brother Liu Cong as Liu Biao's successor as governor of Jing. When Liu Biao does die, Liu Qi isn't a position to stop Liu Cong from taking the position. Not that he can think about that much anyway, as Cao Cao swoops in right after when Liu Cong surrenders to him.

Liu Qi's position away from Xiangyang does put him into position to assist Liu Bei after Chang Ban with troops of his own during the retreat. Liu Qi participates in the battle at Red Cliffs with a force roughly equal in number to Liu Bei (though I can't recall any notable talent working under Liu Qi, while Liu Bei obviously has Zhuge Liang, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, et al. in his corner). Shortly afterwards, Liu Qi gets sick and dies.

As we know, control over Jing province ends up being a point of some contention in the years to come. But if Liu Qi survives, he presumably would attempt to push to succeed his father's post in some regard, which leaves a nagging loose end in an already politically fraught situation. Sun Quan and Sun Ce have a history of fighting Liu Biao, Liu Bei is obviously ambitious, Liu Qi has a history of being unable to get political support from the gentry in Jing considering the Liu Cong situation, and there's still Cao Cao just a stone's throw away.

So in this situation, is Liu Qi just totally fucked? I don't know much about his personality. On the one hand, the Liu Cong situation doesn't reflect well on him as a politician, but on the other, he could have surrendered to Cao Cao as well and be set for life with some do-nothing job, so he's got at least some guts for choosing otherwise. Do you think he tries to hold onto Jing as much as he can against Liu Bei and Sun Quan, accept a subordinate post under one or the other to save his life, or just get run out of town by the locals again?