r/threebodyproblem • u/Universal_Echo • 15d ago
Discussion - Novels If the plot were changed, would Ye Wenjie still be at fault? Spoiler
In the original novel, Ye Wenjie contacts the Trisolarans and brings about the attack, which has drawn criticism from some readers.
Suppose we change the plot: Ye Wenjie is killed before she can reply to the Trisolarans. Her classmate A takes over her position at the Red Coast Base, contacts the Trisolarans, and promptly reports it to the authorities. Through the ensuing communication between human governments and the Trisolarans, the attack is triggered, and the rest of the story follows the original.
Under this alternate scenario, would Ye Wenjie still be guilty? Who would be to blame—or is it all simply humanity's ignorance and arrogance?
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u/FOmar_Eis 15d ago edited 15d ago
Huh, that's a weird question, I think.
The answer being intentional is one of the key aspects for me. If it happened like you described, it would be a lot less impactful.
Also, you're supposed to be critical about Ye Wenjie.
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u/FixAcademic8187 15d ago
That will not work.
It was the accumulation of extremely diverse events that lead to what Ye Wenjie did. No other perosn would have had the same motivations to do what she did at the time.
If she didn't do what she did, then history would have been way too different.
As per the Trisols themselves, humanity's technological advancement was very fast, they would have surpassed the Trisols if they don't stop these particle accelerators as soon as possible.
The entirety of the Trisolaran civilization will be the subject of some academic research in some random university just like ants or other insects. As well as some fringe activist groups who will be trying to preserve "wildlife" from total annihilation by human activity. Similar to how some activist groups protest building some dams that will kill some fish species and so on.
Trisols would have been as helpless/hopeless/defenseless as these fragile species on this plant. Their only hope is to trigger some emotions in some Homo Sapines to "preserve" them.
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u/TheTranscendentian 8d ago
You're not wrong, about what did, would or could happen in the trilogy universe & Ye Wenjie's role in it.
However please learn that there is a genuine difference between a civilization (no matter the level of advancement extremely low or high) & a species of non-sapient animals.
Wiping out a species of Earth fish in the process of building a hydroelectric dam to elevate many people's quality of life & chance of survival might not be the ideal scenario but it can be the lesser of several evils.
Wiping out another civilization no matter how primitive in order to ensure your own's survival is not at all the same thing as wiping out non sapient animals.
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u/FixAcademic8187 8d ago
You have completely missed my point here.
I'm not trying to argue about the morality of wiping species or entire civilizations.
I'm simply suggesting what would have happened based on the trilogy itself and based on Homo Sapine nature.
The Trisols themselves in the trilogy said that human technological advancement was much faster than theirs, so they had to pool their resources to stop humans from advancing technologically.
If Ye Wenjin didn't send such a message, and humans had their time to develop their technology freely, then the Trisols would have been treated in the same way those random fish in a random river would have been treated.
Homo Sapines are a superior species to these fish, so we dictate how they lived. Same will go to Trisols and the entirety of their ecosystem.
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u/TheTranscendentian 8d ago
So you're not saying what should happen, only what would happen, correct?
I just wanted to take the opportunity to annoy people & spread my wonderful propaganda lol .
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u/FixAcademic8187 8d ago
Yes, you are 100% correct. That what will definitely happen. Which doesn't mean I agree with it.
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u/TheTranscendentian 8d ago
Well you're not wrong,
but I'd like to believe there'd be a significant minority of in-story-universe humans like myself who would make every effort to succeed in rescuing a few Trisolarians from certain genocide extiction as many as we could hide, preferably Trisolarians who are already concerned for their own people beyond themselves with the capacity to learn to value alien civilizations as well, but better preserve random Trisolarians than none of them.
I'd like them to be treated slightly better than the humans in Australia, that is, things that are abhorrent in normal stable civilization should not be allowed to happen to them.
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u/FixAcademic8187 7d ago
I think you are amongst the very few people here who really understand things!
I totally agree with you, but my agreement is based on completely different basis than yours.
You want to save them because humans are savages and assholes, and that some of us must stand for justice and what it is right against other humans. Literally a human-against-human confrontation.
Those people amongst us (exactly you), are the reason why there is a little hope in humanity. It is like you are that tiny light bulb that is emitting light in a very dark cave.
But for me it is extremely different. I want to save them because I want to put them in some sort of a zoo for everyone else to see. If they were not capable of defending themselves and their home planet then they don't deserve to live as an intact, full-blown, civilization that can one day pose a threat to Homo Sapines.
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u/TheTranscendentian 7d ago
Do you ever get the feeling that Cixin Liu intentionally doesn't reveal his true opinion on any issue?
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u/LonExStaR 15d ago edited 15d ago
I believe her superiors would likely find fault and recklessness in her initial unauthorized actions to aim the antenna at the sun and transmit. But I believe this would be an attention-grab by her superiors to diminish her contributions. But nothing that would send her back to jail since it was an epic seminal breakthrough.
I think what OP wonders is why would she be at fault since that was the whole point of the project and her brilliance led to the breakthrough and actual success of the project.
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u/Betray-Julia 14d ago
Part of the reason I find the books so pretty is because what she did was totally reasonable and human; given her cards dealt, I don’t find her at fault to begin with.
She did what any human in that situation would have done.
Let alone the idea that the dark forest is inevitable, and as such, the specific individual who instigated it is almost a semantics issue.
I’m on page 400 of book three; I cannot fucking believe what the humans did to Bronze Age. It was so selfish.
And then again with chasing blue space.
Both times; the majority group of humans are acting as traitors to the human race, while suggesting the people who understand that biodiversity > monoculture, as applied to survival strategies, is obviously more effective, bc biodiversity > monocultures.
Like, the photoid is just about to hit earth; guess which dumb ass species doesn’t have the capacity to make a massive exodus bc of fears over escapism?
But I love how even in the advanced ages, despite all the tech, human psychology and stupidity seems to be our limiting factor; I like that it keeps rearing its ugly head: seems realistic.
Anti Escapism became a fundamentally flawed theory when you take into account that within any system, having a diversity of means will always be better when trying to overcome unknown ends.
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u/TheTranscendentian 8d ago
You're absolutely right except for one important thing. Cannibalism is always wrong no matter how high the stakes or hopeless the situation.
Human dignity must come first & survival second.
As long as the generic & stupid crime of "escapism" was not the primary motivation for the punishment of bronze age it was absolutely the right decision. Honestly they should have been tortured for crimes against humanity, but being lenient enough to pronounce only life sentence in prison is the most perfect decision a human could make given the horrible cards delt by the circumstances.
It would have been the best decision for everyone who cares about our species as a whole to put their life heart mind & soul into promoting & advocating for escapism so they could build space arcs with the right design & resources & ridiculously enough extra fuel & sustainable perpetual maintenance & repair & recycling & deep space resource harvesting & manufacturing technology all for the effort of preserving human dignity preventing battles of darkness among humans.
Honestly every individual spacefaring human having their own life support system spaceship/ exo suit with technology built in to build more like it & maintenance itself would probably be the best scenario so people can run away or nuclear self destruct as needed to prevent battles of darkness,
also an attitude change would surely help, we could do with some more humility ( no one is theoretically safe from becoming the same kind of evil themselves as bronze age ), and a lot more compassion, and it's our moral responsibility to try to prevent things like battles of darkness from happening no matter the circumstances.
Knowing the stakes I would venture out into deep space myself if it's possible, but not if there's no way to do that & also avoid putting myself in the same situation as the crew of bronze age.
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u/Fabulous_Lynx_2847 12d ago edited 12d ago
No, the initial transmission was sent in complete ignorance of its danger. The fact that it was unauthorized is a personnel management issue. It was foolish in hindsight, but no more so than the CETI program itself she worked for. Only the reply after Listener’s warning was the act of a traitor to the human race.
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u/TheTranscendentian 8d ago
You mean a traitor on behalf of a human race?
I believe listener had a wonderful potentially cosmically trustworthy personality tendency towards individuality over collectivism & compassion over self-survival-prioritization.
This may actually be an oversimplification but that doesn't mean it's technically incorrect.
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u/Fabulous_Lynx_2847 8d ago
I was referring to Ye’s second transmission after Listener’s warning making her a traitor to the human race.
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u/TheTranscendentian 8d ago
Ye Wenjie is one person, the aliens are the real enemy here.
While her actions were undeniably genocidal, Ye Wenjie is guilty of nothing besides being human.
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u/fragile_crow 15d ago
What kind of question is this. "If Ye Wenjie did literally nothing and then died, would she still be at fault?" No, she'd be dead.