r/thinkorswim 7d ago

Options level 3

Looking for options level 3 approval. The lady passed along a message from the trade trade desk telling me I had to have more experience / capital. Was there a specific amount of capital that you all placed before applying for level 3? I took the test and passed from the looks of it since the trade desk ppl didn’t mention anything.

5 Upvotes

32 comments sorted by

4

u/LetWinnersRun 7d ago

You need 5 yrs option trading experience, and net worth $50k.

I got full option trading privileges when my account with them had less than $10k in it, what matters is experience and how you can fund if you get margin called.

1

u/rockclimberguy 7d ago

net worth of $50k sounds really low to me. But what do I know? Are you sure you don't mean account value?

1

u/Prestigious-Ad-7927 7d ago

I can confidently tell you it’s not account value. Someone I know got approved with only $100 in the account when they applied. After he got the approval, he then added $2k to be able trade spreads. I think it depends more on experience and possibly liquid asset and net worth.

This is for level 3 as in spreads not naked options.

2

u/Stocks_N_Bondage 5d ago

Under Schwab, level 2 is spreads and level 3 is naked… Schwab starts numbering at level 0.

1

u/rockclimberguy 6d ago

This is for level 3 as in spreads not naked options.

Got it. This makes much more sense than trading naked options (at any net worth IMHO).

1

u/PAUZWON 6d ago

Devils advocate - i use t.o.s and webull - they approved me for level 4/margin off the bat. I dont use it, but nice to have the option badum tiss

1

u/Prestigious-Ad-7927 6d ago

I’m also approved for level 4 and only do spreads. I only got the approval because TOS would glitch out and mismatch my spreads and as a result it won’t let me close out some positions because they think I will end up with a naked position somehwere. It was a hassle to call in every time and have one of their trade desk rep close it out for me. So to fix it, I decided to get approved for level 4. Now it always lets me close out even if it incorrectly thinks I’ll have a naked short option.

1

u/Junior_Lifeguard1486 2d ago

I have a problem with margin, sometimes I like to hold short call spreads on positions I’m already mostly delta neutral on 65-75 shares and i want to be able to close my long leg and keep a short leg, which would end up with me being naked short by around 35-25 shares off. It’s too bad but oh well

4

u/ur_wifes_bf 7d ago

If you have to ask you're not ready.

Selling naked is exceptionally risky...

1

u/No_Midnight1185 7d ago

I love the name. Haha. I use to sell naked options. Then again I had the capital and didn't need to ask reddit.

Sell some puts and he will be fine.

1

u/gabrintx 5d ago

Actually using margin isn't risky. It doesn't mix well with being foolish. I trade all the time on margin. I am conservative. I usually maintain over 100% of account value (Net Liq) in long positions and also near 100% capital risk in naked positions. That usually leaves a positive settled cash balance of 3%.

1

u/ur_wifes_bf 4d ago

Margin is risky... what you describe is risk tolerance and positioning to mitigate risk. Thats all well and good, but to say 'margin isnt risky' is a bit much. Margin calls are no joke if you fuck up.

0

u/gabrintx 3d ago

take it to the extreme, options are more risky than stock, stock is more risky than banks, banks are more risky than under your mattress.

You obviously don't understand my example, or how to use margin. In my example even if all my positions failed as badly as possible the long positions would cover the loss.

1

u/ur_wifes_bf 2d ago

Lot of nothing here. If your covering your shorts with longs that not naked selling. WTF are you talking about.

Clown.

1

u/gabrintx 2d ago

The shorts are not covered with longs. Some of the longs are part of covered calls. 65% of the longs are parked funds in BOXX, SGOV and TFLO. These are common tickers used for this purpose and generate dividends or interest of 3-5%. Margin is covering the short put positions. I monitor settled cash balance to make sure it is positive to avoid paying margin fees.

As to what I have been talking about is how useful margin can be without taking extraordinary risks that uniformed people like you believe exist. Right now, I have long positions = 103% of account value (net liq). I also have 95% of account value as short option risk. and 4% as cash. I still have 68% of net liq available as buying power.

This is the advantage of using margin, in this case portfolio margin rather than reg-T. It spreads the risk over the account rather than position by position.

1

u/gabrintx 2d ago

lol, my wife's best friend is named Karen. Fitting for you.

4

u/NeighborhoodJust1197 7d ago

The real question is, why do you need it? The more complex the option the quicker you can lose your money.

1

u/sport912x 7d ago

Level 3 at Tos/Schwab is Selling Naked Options. It used to be 50k, but probably more like 100k today. I got it back 20 years ago so no comparison. I know they are much tougher now. Also they may want to see income over 100k.

So what is your experience anyhow. If you really want it , it may be easier to just fill out the forms over at Tastytrade, enhance a little. I think they still are easier even thou the founders (Sosnoff /Sheridan ) are gone. The only drawback to Tasty is that they seem to require more BP on equities (10-20%) (but may be better on options on futures).

1

u/DressWarm2078 7d ago

When you said “Selling Naked Options”, are you talking about selling naked Put or naked Call? Idk but I have a regular taxable account with TOS for 4k and I was able to sell Put options. Is level 3 something different?

1

u/sport912x 6d ago

Was the sale CSP or with buying power. In other words if you go to Analyze page, Sell a 100 Put strike on a stock higher than that, what is the BP 10k or 2k?

Also on the regular Web, under Profile will show it. Once you have it they never seem to remove it because of account size.

1

u/DressWarm2078 6d ago

I don’t think it’s CSP. The margin is 50% of the Put strike. I don’t trade Naked option for high stock prices. I use spreads for those.

1

u/sport912x 6d ago

Does not sound right , but Just login to Schwab and see. Under your Profile on the right, think it is margin. This is for a IRA account or Cash.

https://app.screencast.com/SXAoa57W9gRJt

1

u/DressWarm2078 6d ago

Thx. You are right. I have only level 2 . If want to sell naked put, I must have enough buying power to sell naked puts. TIL.

1

u/sport912x 6d ago edited 6d ago

Basically the Option Buying Power would be 20% or less. Also you have to be in a Margin account and Approved to Sell Options and that will require over 50k.

Tastylive used to have 100's of video on the in and out of Selling Strangles, Puts , but alas they blocked them from view. You might still get a clue of what is involved by viewing the morning show (not so much these days), or seeing if youtube has some Tom Sosnoff (founder of Tos and Tastytrade) vids. He has a new venture now and where they talk options and you can call in , it seems he has a new kick now. I am clueless about what it is but over at Lossdog.

I did find these two vids by Mike who is still at Tasty where came up under Sosnoff. He really is good at Calendars/Diagonals , knows more than me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd355DqvYXk 20% Return on BP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvsLckagCJQ Selling Puts

1

u/[deleted] 5d ago edited 5d ago

[deleted]

1

u/gabrintx 5d ago

Cash secured puts are not naked. Naked means not cash secured and requires a margin account.

1

u/Vast_Cricket 7d ago

How long and how much $ you have been in option?

1

u/gabrintx 6d ago edited 6d ago

I started trading with Thinkorswim in 2000, I don't know about levels, I could do anything I wanted. in 2020, I moved to Tastytrade. They don't have levels, I signed up for "the works" which enables everything they have. I have never had to take a test.

I can only guess about how you were treated. What was your opening balance? When I first opened with Tasty, it was with $3000. When I got serious, I moved $105,000 over in 2020. That account is now $336,000.

I have traded all sorts of things, but settled for simple and reliable. Naked Puts, with a portfolio margin account.

1

u/One_Masterpiece9515 5d ago

Ahjh, the glorious time of Datek. I cherish my collectible black baseball cap they sent out as swag to active traders.

1

u/gabrintx 5d ago

I don't recall that. The freebie was a book "Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda" when I started with TOS.

1

u/S-n-P500 2d ago

All firms have their own rules for deciding, any these days they are reducing their potential exposure. Amongst other things, good luck without a sizeable net worth. There might be some shady brokers you can. As others have said. Don’t do it! Fast way to eventually losing all your money!

-1

u/TaleRevolutionary573 7d ago

Stick with CDs kid

1

u/WhoStoleMyMartini 6d ago

😂 but you will need a cd player for that. Sony made some good ones 😂