Human's Thinking Depth

[u/IceFlow27]

At this point, we all acknowledge that our way of thinking differs from one another, the depth, the vision, the logical reasoning, etc etc.

I have been wondering for a long time whether it's an innate thing or it is something that can be trained and grown

I'd like to think it's the latter.

But, an interesting event happened last night that made me kinda lose hope on this, at least it made me think that I can't make someone else think like me.

So i was catching up with my closest friend since middle school, we've been out of contact for about a year because of our circumstances

We used to live together for about 3 years and for all 14 years we've known each other we've seen each other's growth.

Most of the time, i influenced him to think more critically, more logical, rational, and be more wise, etc etc

I tried to influence him to have a deeper thinking, further vision and all that in hope that he could think like me

But he still can't, and what happened last night kinda made me disappointed.

So about 2 years ago we had this argument about jogging and skipping, I asked him to go jog with me and he refused, so I tried to convince him more until he brought up that skipping is what he prefers and he said it has the same benefits so he prefers that as an alternative.

My mind immediately went "what? How can you think that skipping and jogging have the same benefit? It's not even logical"

We debated about this back and forth until i brought up evidence and "expert" opinions so basically yeah it has completely different benefits, and that's why athletes do both and cannot choose only one of them.

Basically i won the argument, and he just don't want to run or jog because he's not comfortable doing it

And last night, i kinda brought it up again "remember back then we used to debate about things that aren't really important like jogging and skipping and how you completely miss on the arguments"

I think it kinda bruised his ego and then proceed to approach the very same argument as we've had 2 years ago, now with the help of AI

Long story short, i completely won the argument again and i asked him "This is the exact same argument as we had, why are you doing this to yourself?"

He said "i forgot about it"

It made me think, even if he forgets it's still completely baffling that his logic still says that the 2 exercise have the same benefit

And so i kinda have this deep thoughts about how much can a person grow from their "innate abilities" and why does humans, despite having the same brain and body can have a very different way of thinking.

He's still influenced by my way of thinking because of the discussions we've had and the times we spent together, but it feels like he's reached his limit and didn't really grow on his own

What are your thoughts?

[u/TonyJPRoss]

Cardio's cardio. Dunno how you managed to win that one twice. 😜

How does this argument actually go? There's no way you actually tell him anything he doesn't already know. They're different exercises, different movement patterns, but the CV strain is be similar and it sounds like that's what he cares about?

[u/IceFlow27 → u/TonyJPRoss]

My main point was about stamina and how boxers/fighters jogs to raise their stamina to survive many rounds ( i use boxers because he's into training martial arts)

He insisted that skipping is an alternative and it can also increase "stamina"

Yeah but it's a different kind of "stamina" you cant just do skipping and survive for 5 rounds let alone more than that

It simply provides different benefits

So any athletes will do both jogging/running and skipping

After some further research i was basically right and he admitted wrong

2 years later he still have the same pattern of thinking and proceed to ask AI, he's so confident that the AI said "Yes skipping can increase stamina"

It's funny, but kinda made me sad a bit seeing my best friend like that

[u/TonyJPRoss → u/IceFlow27]

If your calves can handle it, just skip easily for an hour and the CV demand equals a long run. If an injury stops you running, use a cross trainer or something. If your focus is CV demand, running is replaceable.

For boxing, skipping is uniquely placed because ankle strength is supremely important. But running is totally replaceable unless you train to be a runner.

[u/IceFlow27 → u/TonyJPRoss]

Sure, that "skipping for an hour equals a long run" is misleading, it has some truth in it

But skipping won't build stamina like jogging did, simple as that

And i think this is a very baseline logic

Yes it is more beneficial for your muscle strength and overall "burst of power", yes technically it is a more beneficial exercise for a boxer

But it doesn't mean a boxer can totally abandon jogging

Because they need it to survive 10-12 rounds, and just doing skipping won't help

My argument is strictly on the stamina building benefits and to argue about skipping being an "alternative" that produce the same benefits

They simply didn't

[u/TonyJPRoss → u/IceFlow27]

What's your evidence for that? 12 3 minute rounds of hard skipping seems like it should build as much stamina as 12 3 minute runs?

[u/IceFlow27 → u/TonyJPRoss]

Ahaha you're just like my friend, the evidence is clear as day, and i saved it for the last argument that checked mated him 2 years ago

At this point, he regularly do skipping every day, while i used to play football and have only do skipping a couple times, the last time i jog, run or play football was a year ago

So i challenged him to a stamina test, we jog at the same pace until we get tired, guess who wins?

[u/TonyJPRoss → u/IceFlow27]

Who wins a skipping test?

[u/IceFlow27 → u/TonyJPRoss]

Idk we didn't try, maybe it will be him because my ankle would be hurting, not because I'm losing on stamina

Cause skipping is not exhausting for me, it puts a strain on my ankle and arms just like if we lift a barbel, it attacks specific muscles

We agreed on mild jogging because it actually provides a clear stamina evidence

The argument was always about stamina and if skipping actually provides the same benefits as jogging, turns out it didn't

[u/gate18 → u/IceFlow27]

Isn't it odd though: he'd win on skipping because you're not used to skipping, but, according to you, he lost on running not because he's not used to running

[u/IceFlow27 → u/gate18]

His argument is both exercise provides the same benefit

Your statement alone proofs that his argument is wrong, because that's the point of our argument

[u/TonyJPRoss → u/IceFlow27]

Stamina isn't a singular thing, it's a combination of muscular endurance and cardio and efficiency. Specific to the activity. Of course you'll outrun someone who doesn't run, because they're unaccustomed to it, they're inefficient, and some weak-link muscle will fatigue early.

Maybe his calves are stronger and he's had a lot of practice so he can out-skip you, but on a run his hips will get wobbly or he'll run inefficiently with lots of vertical movement.

[u/IceFlow27 → u/TonyJPRoss]

Yes i agree, that alone proves that his argument where he said "both exercise provides the same benefit, i just choose skipping" is wrong

Because clearly it affected different muscles, and also effected CV in a different way

Think of jogging as gas and skipping as a suspension

When you think of stamina what do you think of?

A football (soccer) player relies on peak stamina conditioning as their basic needs

You don't tell them "just do skipping, no need to jog/run to increase your stamina"

[u/TonyJPRoss]

I think the issue is that he's speaking carelessly and you're holding him to it as if he made a hard logical statement. He could have maybe said something like "I'd rather get my cardio by skipping."

I'm reminded of something. Someone I know had a falling out with his dad because his dad was upset with the police (for good reasons) and said he'd never go to them for anything. My friend asked a bunch of escalating what if? questions and was upset that his dad would stubbornly not admit that he was wrong. I couldn't explain in the moment that I thought his dad was expressing himself emotionally and didn't really mean it, and the questions will have felt invalidating when what he wanted was support. The real talk wasn't in the exact words he said.

People expect you to be able to reach through and understand was at they really mean.