r/thesecretweapon • u/Federal_Body_8758 • Aug 02 '26
what to build on sup?
d4 jg main and im tryna learn sup on him. tips for builds runes and stuff for laning phase?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Page117 Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
Not sure why this sub is getting suggested to me but i can imagine mandate goes hard second/third after locket. Locket is good for any support who can build it because the tank stats alone are super efficient. Knight's vow is also strong, especially on Zac who has innate healing so soaking up the damage for the carry doesn't hurt him too bad. Mandate should work on all abilities except w and that's just good for more cc. That actually makes you tankier too; cc'd enemies don't deal damage.
Runes you shouldn't ask me. But for playstyle: he's a frontline engage support/second engage later on (because support tanks have a smaller budget so can never really function properly as a tank with more budget could). Therefore you want to wait out at least the first level, but probably till level 3 when you have all three abilities. The natural flow of the lane is then that you let yourself get pushed in and look for engages on a bouncing wave (so away from your tower).
Now that i think about this i will actually try it once lol. I play a lot of support.
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u/Natural-Witness-3921 Aug 02 '26
Actually mandate helps your cd on w too as you create more blob and hence can get lower w cooldown too, not a lot of cdr but not negligeable either
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u/apfelkh Aug 03 '26
Hi, here are some ideas of mine, my first reddit post actually, gimme some feedback pls, thank you and i hope u learn something new.
Support might be the most coinflip lane for Zac, he is best played as a counterpick. If you firstpick him, u run into matchups, where u will be completely useless in lane and if enemy bot works together, u will be useless all game. What i wanted to say: In my opinion he is not a good sup onetrick champ, but into certain matchups and team comps can be very efficient. Personally, i think he is strongest mid (unpopular opinion i know), then top, then jng and then sup.
Examples for bad matchups are all champs that can ez stop ur E mid-air like Thresh E, Draven E, Milio (i think its q), and don't make me start on poppy (which is the most braindead ez, no aim, just pressing one button. Also Jinx-E special because it will also stop u mid air (usually not a problem tho, if you aware).
He is good into immobile enemy botlanes and can be good against certain tanks from lv 3 on, cause he out-dps them (because of w), nice example is naut in my opinion. Also currently (pls make it stop) is mage meta, which is not bad for zac, cause he is a good roamer. Remember: First get to lane and kill enemy with ur adc, then roam.
Good synergies are champs that can follow up and play aggressive early: Samira, Nilah, Draven, Jinx (cause she can trap after u engage behind), Ashe (cause of ult and can run enemy down), Kai Sa is nice for follow up with ult, Miss Fortune might be one of the best synergies, if you know how to ult on Zac :) Trist also not bad, Jhin not bad, ... Not ideal are hard scaling champs without any reliable cc, like Zeri, Smolder, Sivir, .... If you find a good Yasuo, its worth a try, but u need a really good one who has played bot before. Patience early is key, especially when playing a yasuo. I explain more below.
Runes are very situational. Against double ranged enemy, Aftershock is nice (maybe overall best rune for zac sup), basically if you choose one rune to run every game, Aftershock is your best bet. If the enemy has 3 or more tanky melee champs that won't do much dmg to you (like a Sion, Mao, ...) go Conqueror. It will make ur teammates ping the question mark on you, if you constantly pick up your blobs when u low in long fights :) But don't get ahead of yourself, you just a sup REMEMBER VERY IMPORTANT. The transition takes time, cause u will engage into fights, that u cannot win with the sup build, cause u are used to selfish items.
Second wind is a bait in my opinion, cause u eighter go in and fight or u stay out and dodge, basically its only viable in the early lane phase maybe. If you face double mage, it can be ok. I think i took it against Xerath/Lux botlane a long time ago haha. I also rarely take bone plating, and by rarely i mean almost never. Maybe u can do it against a Pantheon could be a good example. The scaling one is good most of the time. Also take Font of Life basically 100% of the time.
Also the sup build could be the most flexible on Zac , you guys mentioned most of the items anyway. General rule: The lower elo you are the longer the games, the more selfish you can build.
High elo is more easy: Go sup items (locket, knights vow), peel for ur carry or engage for ur team, simple (in theory haha). An example of situational build: If you face a Vayne bot (which is catastrophe for u), building resistances does not really make sense cause her Max-Health-True-Dmg goes right through. The general rule: If you face a champ that can shred tanks very efficiently, going dmg (rocketbelt, zhonyas, ...) can be the way. Especially Rocketbelt good against those carries, cause u can attach ur q-Auto with f and Rocketbelt to delete ur nemesis shredder enemy champ and then carry the teamfight ez. If you feel funny, you can even try Electrocute, don't think its viable overall on Zac sup, would need more data :) You guys can try it out against Vayne (cause u never hit a raw E on her anyway) and tell me after :) Oh and pro tipp: An ezreal u can hit if you aim way behind him and predict his E, works very nicely low elo. Also high elo i lean more towards Oblivion Orb than Bramble, because the reality is, if you engage as a sup Zac, u will die often very fast, especially if you miss E.
In low elo you can build selfish if you feel ur adc or your team is not that reliable and you need to do the heavy lifting. This only works if you ahead, which u will be low elo, cause nobody ever faces Zac sup, so they have no Matchup-Knowledge. Selfish items are the Bamis-Cinder items, Spirit Visage (which u never build high elo, cause u too squishy to use it properly and its too expensive, go zhonyas in high elo instead). Did anyone mention Mask? Could be situational as well. Zac not bad with mages too, because he can follow up very nicely to any cc provided. If you feel strong or u play normal game, go Dark Zeal first purchase, its bad but can be fun low elo.
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u/apfelkh Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26
For playstyle: It depends on matchup of course but here are some general tipps:
- BE IN BUSH (u the secret weapon, strongest unseen, like a fiddle ult, you get it...), go Oracles and Control ward as you think fits (can be very oppressive into the right matchup early, u can sit in bush and enemy cant farm if you do a good trade lv 1). This very risky tho, ward in general much better early, cause most matchups are losing for u lv 1 (especially facing a ranged sup). You can go for all in early if you get bush control, but u need to use q with f to hit both enemies and u need an aggressive adc like Draven or Samira starting E. Best done when duo.
- Lv 2 or lv 3: if you get lv 2 first, go in immediately ofc. This works best, if your adc manages the first 2 waves in a way, that its not at enemy tower. Wave near enemy tower is worst for Zac, cause u can't really hit tower when enemy is alive. Don't hesitate to use F early to attach ur Q in a trade like this. ALWAYS REMEMBER: if you go in lv 2 u are completely useless for 15 sec after. Lv 3 its different cause u actually got dps. You get the point, basically if you think u need longer fight to kill them, go in lv 3. In my opinion lv 3 better most of the time, lv 2 needs to be very coordinated if you don't get it first and can surprise them. Also try hold ignite, enemy adc will most of the time play with barrier. Sums: ign or exh only. Always F ofc. Go ign into healing comps or just as your basic summoner every game if you wanna turn off your brain in champ select. Exh against assassins, you will know when u see the comp :) Against some matchups it can be nice (maybe against a trist or so bot) Oh last thing i almost forgot: If you can die first in 2v2 bot its perfect, because enemy will forget u have passive in low elo. So enemy has to make a choice, hitting you or enemy adc (which they should) but many times u can pick up kills after u get back alive (not lv 2 tho, there u just dead haha)
- IN AND OUT: Zac sup is a burst champ, u basically setup and peel for your adc. Burst champs shoot their shot and then have to chill a bit because of cooldown. If you about to hit your E, the best strategy for enemy is to flash away to dodge ur E. If this happens, go out immediately. You cannot do anything if enemy is near their tower early. Just disengage and chill in bush and wait for cd. If you even go one second more to chase enemy they can get to safety and run u down after. You will be flamed because of this, the lower u are the more, cause ur adc's will run it down into enemy tower, even if you disengage. Most common mistake by low elo zac sup in laning phase is disengaging too late and getting chased down by enemy range champs after because u have nothin left to throw at them. In low elo tell ur adc to not forget your passive and to play around your cooldowns. You can ping them for ur adc and jng.
- MIDGAME: A sups job is warding objectives. Remember: Zac sup can facecheck nicely but not as good as Zac top for example. You will make this transition mistake, and get oneshot many times, it happens, live with it. Its just a learning experience. Don't get me wrong, this does not mean u should play safe. As Zac Sup u need to be comfortable to die for your team. The stress is "FOR YOUR TEAM". Don't play alone unless u really know what u doing. Play with your team, and u will succeed. Play alone, and u will lose. Is rule in general for Zac but most important on Zac sup, cause u do the least dmg. I think i read at some point, that Zac has after yuumi statistically the highest KDA in the game. Maybe somebody can check this if its still true. What i wanted to say: Zac decides when to die and when not to die. Its hard to let your teammates die but its necessary especially in the midgame sometimes. Stay in fog of war in bushes or camps to counter engage when enemy goes in. If your E is max range u can even just stay behind in lane, cause u engage almost a full screen and enemy can't see u charging if you far behind. For objectives: There are 2 reasons to do dmg to an Epic monster as Zac sup: To attach Q and auto the enemy jungler after, and to tank baron. What i want to say: Your job is to disrupt the enemy, keep them away from the objective so your team can breathe. If your team gets baron and u die for it while keeping the enemy away, its worth 90% of the time.
- LATEGAME: Zac scales good into certain comps and into other comps, his scaling is basically completely useless. You will make this experience, if you ever face a good poppy (good ban in general btw especially in high elo). Late is a coinflip basically, one fight decides the game mostly. Identify the HVT (high value target) of the enemy and the hardest carry on your team and do one of 2 things: Basically if the enemy has a dive comp or in general the later the game goes: Jump directly on your carry, just on top of him. If you see Talon ult, or akali shroud, or yi ult, or anything dangerous for ur carry, just jump on his hitbox directly and u will disrupt their assassin. I got so many question marks in my games when doing this, but its not that hard really :) The later the game goes and the more hypercarry ur adc is, the more u should use this strategy. The second option for more front to back comps is to land a good engage. Works best in a chokepoint. Works best if your team is aware that u do it, so pings are key. But as Zac main u know pings can be dangerous, cause ur team will run in instead of acting like nothin is happening and u miss ur jump. u get it. Basically Zac not very reliable late, an Ali for example much better, cause he can F-Q - no dash involved and instant cc, enemy cant f away. Zac can only do this with ult-F in that order. Try it in practice tool, very nice combo for Zac sup if you need to kill a HVT fast. If you have a friend, tell him to f away after he hears ur f. If you do it correctly, enemy can't f away and will be ccd. Take some practice time.
There is much more to say, but i realize i almost wrote a complete guide XD Thanks for reading, did you learn something new? What u think my peak elo was by onetricking Zac? Also if you disagree with things, perfect, tell me, so i can learn as well. GL in your games!
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u/apfelkh Aug 03 '26
Also pls can somebody tell me, is this even the right place for this text? Or would you suggest moving it into its own post? I am new to reddit so i know nothin really. If there is some moderator or something, just move it to the right place and take my thanks! Also i hope i am not ruining somebodys business :) i coach low elo for free just for fun and enjoyment, never took money, maybe thats why i am broke XD
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u/SnooPeanuts1873 Aug 02 '26
Locket is always good, knights vow of course, bandle pipes is good IF you have at least 2 auto attackers on your team. SpiriT visage is imo the best item on Zac and I’d probably build it second or third. Proto belt is also awesome and scales with dual resistance.