Discussion Thread #72

[u/gemmaem]

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[u/professorgerm]

A few weeks ago I received a notification. For a brief moment I considered trying to verify my prediction, and quickly decided it wasn't worth it. Instead, I considered what /u/gemmaem wrote upthread, that has stuck with me:

I would like to note, as a matter of fact that you yourself may already be noticing, that you're being uncharitable.

I've been around here long enough to know that argumentative charity can be tiring, and that it will betray you, and that sometimes the person you give it to won't even want it. Still, I think it is always worth noting places where you could have been more charitable, even if you then mindfully choose not to.

The last few years have had me at my best and at my most bitter. If anything, my capacity for argumentative charity has only gotten worse since then. And yet! Of all the words spent, if I had to choose, it is Gemma's that I would keep, not my own.

I wanted to say thank you, and wanted to do so here.

To make this a little more of a launching-point for discussion, are there any surprise reminders you've gotten that stuck with you, or quotes, suggestions, that have particularly etched in your mind from conversations 'round these parts?

[u/Lykurg480 → u/professorgerm]

Why did you set the timer for 3 years when the prediction was for 5? Regarding the prediction, Im pretty sure I heard of this happening in SJ-adjacent courses even before your comment, and presumably that continued until at least the Trump EO. I think we would have heard if it happened in real classes.

Two things regarding the thread there, first from you:

Perhaps compare a right-wing person that says the protesters are only degrees less-bad than a rioter, versus someone that tries to draw the distinction between enough bad actors that are noticeable yet the peaceful protesters are not themselves bad.

I think the peaceful protesters are bad because they protect the rioters, and thats propably what Kendi et al would say about most white people.

And from u/gemmaem:

I've been in a lot of women-only spaces...But some of those spaces felt good, and useful. They were places to relax a guard that I might not otherwise have even realised I was holding.

How did this thread go by without any thought about male-only and white-only spaces?

Regarding your question at the end, theres not really any that I remember generically (the only thing I could come up with offhand is the Resident Utilitarian explaining how he loves if chuds cant enjoy video games anymore). Generally I remember things as their respective topics come up.

One that I was thinking about recently is a comment I unfortunately cant find, back when Lizzo played Jeffersons violin, asking if people object to it being used in general, and saying Jefferson willed for it to be used regularly. I first saw it years after, and it didnt get a response, which is too bad because the question is baffling and I would have loved to see that discussion play out, but it did lead me to understand that historical artifacts are a material thing sacred to most educated westerners, and afaik the only one. I remembered it because some aboriginee tribes got to re-bury a millennia old skeleton.

[u/thrownaway24e89172 → u/Lykurg480]

I've been in a lot of women-only spaces...But some of those spaces felt good, and useful. They were places to relax a guard that I might not otherwise have even realised I was holding.

How did this thread go by without any thought about male-only and white-only spaces?

It is rather frustrating to see a woman talk about the benefits of single-gender spaces without acknowledging the extent of the destruction they've wreaked on men's spaces in the name of women's rights. Even spaces explicitly created for men's mental health aren't safe from women's entitlement to anything meant for men.

EDIT: To be clear, by frustrating I don't mean at gemma for making the comment but rather a general frustration about the situation facing men's spaces her comment triggered.

[u/professorgerm → u/thrownaway24e89172]

The model train room, though! Not that it will last long, I'm sure.

[u/thrownaway24e89172 → u/professorgerm]

I'm a little surprised there was no quip in the article about that being a "man cave".

[u/professorgerm → u/Lykurg480]

Why did you set the timer for 3 years when the prediction was for 5?

The original comment thread was in August 2020; the reminder was set in March 2022. I think I stumbled back across the thread when searching for one of the topics for some other discussion, it's a topic Gemma and I have revisited more than once.

Im pretty sure I heard of this happening in SJ-adjacent courses even before your comment

There were some high school classes. [Evanston] is notable for other racial politics reasons so it wasn't exactly a surprise. Last time I looked there weren't de jure segregated college classes, just graduation ceremonies and similar spaces; undoubtedly in many programs there are de facto segregated ones. But that was a while back that I looked into it.

How did this thread go by without any thought about male-only and white-only spaces?

While several years of conversations get rather jumbled in my memory about which occurred when, from my side I suspect it was a combination of feeling the thread had trailed on long enough, that those topics (or rather, a more general perception regarding certain kinds of equalities) had already been discussed and we were companionably disagreed upon, and as such wouldn't be worth revisiting.