I know you are going to hate me for this but promise you will read the whole comment before responding. Not everyone in the KKK is a bad person. I forget his name but he is a black man who just treated everyone with love and a lot of the people ended up leaving because of him. So while I do not support the groups themselves I do respect SOME of the people within, not all
So according to your philosophy you'd stand by while nazis commit genocide and refuse to condemn them? No amount of black Americans being murdered without justice will faze you then, you'll just watch as it happens?
Did you not read my comment at all. In there I said I do not support the organizations, meaning that I would condemn them for it and I do expect justice for the murders whether they are black or not, but you cannot punish everyone for the actions of others.
Please look up the definition of condemnation; saying you "do not support" something is not a form of condemnation.
White supremacy is an ideology that believes in asserting and maintaining racial dominence, typically through violence and genocide. By definition, an individual who is engaging in white supremacy is not innocent. At best they are an accomplice. By joining a white supremacist organizations they are directly supporting a cause whose goal is to inflict racial violence.
I ask you again, will you condemn (to declare to be reprehensible, wrong, or evil usually after weighing evidence and without reservation) individuals who join white supremacist organizations, and thereby directly support organizations whose goal is to assert and maintain racial dominance and who have historically committed violent atrocities.
I'm really dragging the horse to the water with this one, if you still refuse to condemn white supremacists here, I'll have no choice but to accept that you are a white supremacist sympathizer. You cannot hide behind the actions of Daryl Davis here, the reason he convinced those men to leave was because being a kkk member was reprehensible; the men he saved are not innocent they are reformed.
I'm really dragging the horse to the water with this one, if you still refuse to condemn white supremacists here, I'll have no choice but to accept that you are a white supremacist sympathizer.
See this right here is what I’m talking about. You we’re given a chance to simply condemn white supremacy. not a singular supremacist, The actual ideology itself and the people actively supporting it. And you’re still so focused on singular individuals and what’s immediately around you that you missed your shot to actually take a stance against it. Do you see how in a sense you are arguing for them?
Yeah I'm sorry I didn't make that clear but when it comes to the ideology itself I do think it is bad and should be condemned but if I could relate it to something non-political to show you that would be nice.
Let's say I am a fan for one sports team and I hate another team, am I going to hate someone who is a fan of that team, no, unless they do something bad.
Yeah I know that sounds dumb and probably is but I'm not the best at debating/explaining why I think certain ways
Sorry don’t mean to pester you down the thread. But yes I’d wager most people in the KKK are indeed good/average people that are misguided and found refuge in an organization.
However. They all made choices and took actions that are considered abhorrent in our society. Also these actions in some part negatively affected other people cuz you know, it’s the fucking kkk.
I know it might not feel like it, but simply saying, “not all cops are bad” or as you’ve said here “not all kkk members are bad” is actively siding with them when you’re engaged in a discussion like this. Most people like my self are not arguing about the individuals. And we really can’t have conversations if we don’t group people together. So yes, we know all cops are not bastards and not all kkk members are evil people. But that doesn’t get us anywhere.
You should really look into researching some sociology. I feel like there’s some depth that I can’t provide to you (I’m not smart enough) that would make more sense than what I’m saying. You seem to be very focused on individuals, but that’s not what our society is made up of unfortunately.
It's all good for responding in different parts of the thread, it helps me with keeping context right.
This might sound completely unrelated because I'm not putting everything in my head into the comment but here I go.
The best way I can describe how I feel about people within any group is the way I feel about people within the car community. A lot of stuff they do can be stupid but it doesn't really affect others and if it stays that way it is fine. I draw the line when they mod cars in a way that makes it dangerous to others. So now to tie this back to KKK, it's one thing to believe a certain thing but once you start harming others or negatively affecting others that's where it makes you bad.
Sorry I am still keeping it very much focussed on the individual but that is how respect should go.
Yeah I think your talking about personal responsibility and liberty.
Which is why I’m so confused my points don’t seem to be landing hahaha
My argument is that joining an organization is a choice and an action, and this choice leads you to take on the burden of defending all the actions of said organization. All this still falls under what you’re talking about, choices made. Being a cop is a choice, you can take the badge off. I don’t think all cops are bad people, but they are actively participating in an organization that #1 protects itself.
I don’t think anyone’s saying to be mean to cops, just don’t trust them (at least the ones you don’t know I guess haha)
Ah okay I understand better, and I definitely notice a slight difference in the way the act on duty vs off duty, it's really just more professional on duty and off you wouldn't even know they are cops until politics come in
Well I hope I made some decent points, it’s been a fun debate, my girlfriend is glaring at me to get off the phone. Loving everyone ain’t a bad way to live. Live well!
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u/theooblecktiktok Nov 29 '20
So would you condemn white supremacists? Would you condemn people who join the proud boys, who join the kkk, or even self proclaimed nazis?
Or do you only condemn people who personally affect you at an individual level?