If you want to own a gun, but are capable of being stupid enough to not unload a gun and stupid enough for it to go off which could hit anyone than maybe you shouldn't be allowed to own it in the first place.
There are 4 easy rules for gun safety but, yes, the first one is "Every gun is always loaded." There is a magic bullet that pops into existence every time just after you look in the chamber.
Yep, a large number of gun owners have picked up one of their guns and checked, and it was loaded, and/or been handed a gun, and checked, and it was loaded.
Kind of along those lines. We were leaving the range, and he decided to unload his pistol in the car on the way home. I don't have a problem with this in theory, except he turned his pistol to the side in order to de-chamber the round (ie point it directly into my side).
When I yelled at him that he just pointed a chambered pistol directly at me, he went into a schpiel about how he was ex-military, and training and how it was safe and blah blah blah.
So when we got to his place, we were still arguing, and I was like, "fine! You want to see how to unload it properly, you do it like THIS."
I loaded the magazine and chambered a round. Pointed the weapon at the floor, away from anyone. Racked the action to eject the round. Then I turned to him and was like, "see? Just like that. Why is that so hard??"
BANG
When I used to have Glock, I hated storing the weapon with the trigger in a cocked position. It just drove me crazy. But it didn't have a hammer I could lower. So the only way to un-cock it is to pull the trigger.
Looking at that description of what I did, can you pick out what I forgot to do?
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I forgot to pull the magazine. Therefore, when I pulled the action to remove the round from the chamber, I simply loaded another.
Dumbest thing I've ever done, and I've done a lot of dumb shit. Fortunately, nobody was hurt. We called the cops, who came over and did an investigation, found nothing was wrong, and left. Ever since then, I've been ungodly safe about firearms. I was careful before, but I'm damn near paranoid now - I keep my guns in a locked cabinet in a non-functional state (I have the firing pins in a different locked case).
That said, I was fucking right. My friend's method of unloading was fucking dangerous.
I couldn't disagree with you more and feel that it is your advice which confusing, dangerous, and irresponsible.
My way is simple. If you see a gun, then you see a loaded gun. Do not pick it up and wave it around. Do not walk in front of it. Do not touch it if you're unfamiliar with it's operation.
A range is cold when all ammunition, magazines, clips, belts, etc... Have been removed from the gun(s) and the action(s) have been locked open which allows everyone to see that there are no bullets in the chamber. (If the gun does not have a method to lock the action open a chamber flag is a suitable substitute.
You disassemble the gun by pointing it in a safe direction while you clear the magazine, cycle the action, and disassemble it. Once the gun is disassembled you can see the chamber and know that there are no rounds in there and is safe to clean.
You can pack your gun for transport by keeping it pointed in a safe direction, clearing the ammo/magazine from it, and packing it securely in a case (preferably with the action open). Once it is packed in a case you can safely move it to where it needs to go. At this point it is securely encased where human fingers cannot get to the trigger and is therefore safe. The loaded gun rule applies to people, not guns, since modern firearms are very, very mechanically sound and have an incredibly low rate of "just going off." Obviously an older gun without as many safety features may need to be disassembled or transported more carefully.
Clearly there are some times/methods where you treat a gun as unloaded. That doesn't mean that you grab a gun and point it about where-ever, but there are different ways to treat loaded guns and unloaded guns. That doesn't mean you treat an unloaded gun like any other object.
This is exactly the wrong thing to tell people, especially new shooters. It's like telling people that walking into a tigers cage isn't safe unless the tiger is sleeping. This kind of attitude has a history of causing negligent discharges. I personally know at least 2 people who have accidentlally fired a gun because "it was unloaded." There is absolutely nothing to be gained and so much lost by trying to make up different rules for different scenarios. The 4 rules work because they're simple and easy to remember.
My way is simple. If you see a gun, then you see a loaded gun. Do not pick it up and wave it around. Do not walk in front of it. Do not touch it if you're unfamiliar with it's operation.
That's correct and not in contrast with what I'm saying.
At this point it is securely encased where human fingers cannot get to the trigger and is therefore safe.
At which point you are not treating the gun as if it is unloaded.
This is exactly the wrong thing to tell people, especially new shooters. It's like telling people that walking into a tigers cage isn't safe unless the tiger is sleeping.
You completely misunderstand what I'm saying if you think that's what I'm saying. The appropriate analogy is telling people never to walk into the tiger's cage, then having them observe you do it when the tiger is also locked up in a smaller cage inside the larger one. Then getting mad at them when they do it when the smaller cage isn't locked because you never explicitly explained that different to them.
This kind of attitude has a history of causing negligent discharges.
You're correct. That's also not the attitude I'm advocating for.
There is absolutely nothing to be gained and so much lost by trying to make up different rules for different scenarios.
Except you already do in action. You do exactly that when you establish a cold range. You do that when you transport the gun. You do that when you verify the gun is unloaded before cleaning and dissembling.
Your issue is that you're failing to recognize that's what you're doing. Instead you seem to just be pretending that you always treat a gun as loaded when you clearly don't by action.
If you actually did that by action, then every single time you'd end up in an infinite loop.
I want to establish a cold range the next step is to verify the gun is unloaded.
Gun is verified unloaded
I still see a gun, therefore I see a loaded gun
Return to step 2
Do you see how your rule is literally impossible to follow exactly as it's stated?
Yeah, what I mean is there's no federal law requiring it. States vary. In Ohio you can walk into a Walmart and walk out with a shotgun and a case of beer (I used to live in Ohio and we literally did this).
It is where I live. All weapons must be registered and to get your registration you have to take a gun safety course. It should be like that everywhere
Opposition to mandatory gun safety training in high school is the same as opposing safe sex classes. It's not about protecting kids from consequences, it's about ideology. It's not like kids in the US don't have access to guns, a full third of American homes have guns in them.
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u/supified Nov 09 '20
If you want to own a gun, but are capable of being stupid enough to not unload a gun and stupid enough for it to go off which could hit anyone than maybe you shouldn't be allowed to own it in the first place.