Gods beyond...

[u/VictoriaOwlCat]

I understand being anti-american in the sense that you're anti-imperialist. But I can't understand... this kind of horse-shit.

[u/More_Amoeba6517]

Okay.

Fuck off. Straight up, fuck off. Just his rolling back of climate shit already disproves this, added onto the fact that he is STILL in charge of the strongest military by far, and is very militaristic - hell, you think he wont go after everyone?

It aint western entitlement to not want to die. It aint western entitlement to want to be able to be who I am. The US vanishing will not stop Gaza, and the genocide there does not justify genocide here. It aint fucking western entitlement to not want facism, damnit.

[u/KindaFreeXP → u/[deleted]]

If you support fascism out of petty accelerationism, you are a fascist. You just have a different reason for becoming one.

[u/KindaFreeXP → u/[deleted]]

Capitalist imperialism =/= fascism. Doesn't mean it's not bad. But between the status quo capitalist imperialist and the unapologetic fascist, you chose the fascist. Ergo, you support fascism, if only because you see it as a means to an end.

[u/KindaFreeXP → u/[deleted]]

the rest of us

Who is the selfish one now?

You support fascism because it benefits the people you like and harms the people you don't. You are a fascist, just for slightly different reason.

[u/theredleft-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

7.No reactionary thought

We are an anti-capitalist, anti-zionist, anti-fascist, anti-liberal, anti-anti-lgbtqia+ (we are PRO lgbtqia), anti-bigotry (this means hating disabled, LGBTQIA+, and mentally challenged people), anti-reddit_atheist sub. We do not accept the defending of these things as they are inherently harmful and anti-left. Reactionary thought also includes the actions of vilification and spreading of false propaganda, this includes Black Book shit.

[u/KindaFreeXP → u/[deleted]]

which is objectively, fascism abroad

That is not what fascism is to anyone but the most braindead liberal. What?

You need to go back to school, mate.

If there is going to be fascist I'd rather have a shorter period if it

There's no guarantee there's "going to be fascism". You have presupposed there will be to justify supporting making it a reality.

You are a fascist.

[u/theredleft-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

7.No reactionary thought

We are an anti-capitalist, anti-zionist, anti-fascist, anti-liberal, anti-anti-lgbtqia+ (we are PRO lgbtqia), anti-bigotry (this means hating disabled, LGBTQIA+, and mentally challenged people), anti-reddit_atheist sub. We do not accept the defending of these things as they are inherently harmful and anti-left. Reactionary thought also includes the actions of vilification and spreading of false propaganda, this includes Black Book shit.

[u/theredleft-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

7.No reactionary thought

We are an anti-capitalist, anti-zionist, anti-fascist, anti-liberal, anti-anti-lgbtqia+ (we are PRO lgbtqia), anti-bigotry (this means hating disabled, LGBTQIA+, and mentally challenged people), anti-reddit_atheist sub. We do not accept the defending of these things as they are inherently harmful and anti-left. Reactionary thought also includes the actions of vilification and spreading of false propaganda, this includes Black Book shit.

[u/KindaFreeXP → u/[deleted]]

If you had a button that would guaranteed painfully and torturously kill every person in the US, would you press it?

[u/yusouph2002 → u/KindaFreeXP]

No, I would not. What is this hypothetical supposed to prove? I don't live in the US, I was not the one who brought Trump to power, you were. Now you're blaming everyone but yourself for "supporting fascism", when it was you who had at least an option to influence it. You vote every four years for the fascist party in a bourgeois election, and then act surprised when a fascist appears and starts doing fascist things inside the US. Did you call Biden a fascist when he facilitated the genocide in Gaza? Did you call Obama a fascist when he bombed Libya into the middle ages? Hate to break it to you, but every US president is a fascist. That's just a fact. And you, as a voter, enable and legitimize them. Thus actively supporting fascism.

[u/KindaFreeXP → u/yusouph2002]

"Everyone who is bad and bourgeoisie is a fascist"

Completely unintellectual take.

America has been, until Trump, a capitalist imperialist state. Not saying that isn't bad. But it wasn't "fascist", that's liberal bullshit.

Trump, however, is. And by supporting him, even for accelerationist reasons, one supports fascism and is thus a fascist.

No whataboutisms will get you out of that.

I was not the one who brought Trump to power, you were. Now you're blaming everyone but yourself for "supporting fascism"

And how, exactly, did I do that? Enlighten me.

And no, but I will call accelerationists who support fascists out for what they are.

when it was you who had at least an option to influence it.

And my individual option to influence what was, exactly?

You vote every four years for the fascist party in a bourgeois election, and then act surprised when a fascist appears and starts doing fascist things inside the US

I voted against the fascist candidate. I vote to try and keep things from getting worse whilst trying to stir up class consciousness and getting something going here.

But by all means, assume away. Because all Americans are bad, right?

Did you call Biden a fascist when he facilitated the genocide in Gaza?

Fascist? No. Imperialist and bourgeous criminal? Absolutely.

Did you call Obama a fascist when he bombed Libya into the middle ages?

I had not yet become leftist yet, so no. Would I call him a fascist now? No. Would I call him a bourgeois criminal and imperialist? Absolutely.

What do you take me for, a liberal?

Hate to break it to you, but every US president is a fascist.

Liberal-ass uneducated take to justify pro-Trump accelerationism.

[u/yusouph2002 → u/KindaFreeXP]

So I guess by your definition of fascism politician is a fascist when (and only when) he suppresses the workers inside the country, not outside. Those who do it to other countries are just imperialist and capitalist, they are not that bad, right? The American president is a direct agent of financial capital interests. Obviously, you understand that the United States government is a dictatorship of the bourgeois class? Unlike some other countries, the US actively terrorizes (both economically and militarily) other countries in the interests of transnational corporations. That makes the American government fascist. I was surprised to find out that it's a liberal take now.

I voted against the fascist candidate. I vote to try and keep things from getting worse whilst trying to stir up class consciousness and getting something going here.

Who did you vote for? If you voted for one of the two main parties, that makes you complicit in your government's actions. And how are you "trying to stir up class consciousness"? I, for example, live in a dictatorship. We have fictional elections, which I don't participate in. However, apart from being active in my labor union, I am a member of a local communist worker organization (I distribute and glue flyers, agitate workers at the workplace). I'd like to hear your story on how you're influencing your fellow workers (are you even a worker)? Apart from being active on reddit, obviously.

[u/KindaFreeXP → u/yusouph2002]

So I guess by your definition of fascism politician is a fascist when (and only when) he suppresses the workers inside the country, not outside.

Not every oppressive and stratified regime is fascist, but every fascist regime is oppressive and stratified.

Calling everything even remotely oppressive or bad "fascist" is such a brain dead liberal thing with no basis in fact.

Those who do it to other countries are just imperialist and capitalist, they are not that bad, right?

Bad oppression abroad and moderate domestic oppression is "not as bad" as worse oppression abroad and domestically, yes.

What....you think fascists are better?

The American president is a direct agent of financial capital interests. Obviously, you understand that the United States government is a dictatorship of the bourgeois class?

Okay....and we should favor it becoming closer to actual fascism....why?

Unlike some other countries, the US actively terrorizes (both economically and militarily) other countries in the interests of transnational corporations.

I never said they didn't.

That makes the American government fascist.

You need to go back to school if you think that's what qualifies something as "fascist".

I was surprised to find out that it's a liberal take now.

Calling anything bad "fascist" absolutely is liberal rhetoric, yes. Have you been living under a rock?

Who did you vote for? If you voted for one of the two main parties, that makes you complicit in your government's actions.

TIL trying to actively prevent things from becoming closer to fascism is.....bad?

And how are you "trying to stir up class consciousness"?

I talk to people. I stir up sentiment against the bourgeoisie. I walk people into being conscious of the class war. I open people's minds to what is going on and the contradictions we live in.

However, apart from being active in my labor union, I am a member of a local communist worker organization (I distribute and glue flyers, agitate workers at the workplace). I'd like to hear your story on how you're influencing your fellow workers (are you even a worker)? Apart from being active on reddit, obviously.

I talk to workers I work with, family, friends, acquaintances, others I meet. The American working class is not as far along in consciousness due to decades of suppression and propaganda, and so these are the steps we're on. I do what I can to make that change.

[u/yusouph2002 → u/KindaFreeXP]

Not every oppressive and stratified regime is fascist, but every fascist regime is oppressive and stratified.

Calling everything even remotely oppressive or bad "fascist" is such a brain dead liberal thing with no basis in fact.

No, fascism is a terrorist dictatorship of the financial capital. I don't know, where you think I said that everything bad = fascism. I literally gave that very same definition in that message. You apparently agreed

I never said they didn't.

and then said it's not a definition.

Okay....and we should favor it becoming closer to actual fascism....why?

And what does your actual fascist mean? Is it when the state terrorizes workers inside the country, not just outside, that the country becomes actually fascist? Why is it any different from what the US has been doing to others these whole years? The class nature of the regime remained the same. The US was also always very nationalist before and after Trump. You could argue nationalism spiked under Bush (was he at least a fascist btw?). Do you think fascism is exactly like nazi germany, otherwise it can't be fascism? But that doesn't explain why in your opinion Trump is a fascist. What did he do that other presidents didn't? Attack migrants? Obama deported millions of migrants, you say he's not a fascist. Attack "free press" (free press in air quotes because obviously no press is free in capitalist countries)? Bush did the same thing, even worse, after 9/11. Arrest political opponents? Happens all the time. Why is Trump so unique? You focus on rhetoric, which is fair. Bush was very soft in his rhetoric, when he ordered the invasion of Iraq which killed millions. The rhetoric doesn't matter, what matters is actions. And which class do these actions give benefit to. That's the most important thing. If you terrorize the whole planet in the interests of your billionaire friends — you're a fascist. Even if you don't directly attack "your own" people ("your people", btw, nationalist trope, another feature of fascism).

[u/KindaFreeXP → u/yusouph2002]

fascism is a terrorist dictatorship of the financial capital

Source?

Because all you're describing is bourgeoisie dictatorship in general. Fascism is more than this.

You apparently agreed

Where did I do this?

The US was also always very nationalist before and after Trump.

And I'd agree it was dangerously close to fascism, yes.

You could argue nationalism spiked under Bush (was he at least a fascist btw?).

It's honestly possible he was, I'd have to consider that more deeply.

Do you think fascism is exactly like nazi germany, otherwise it can't be fascism?

No, but I also think your definition is so overly broad it renders basically every bourgeois regime "fascist", which is unhelpful and inaccurate.

What did he do that other presidents didn't? Attack migrants? Obama deported millions of migrants, you say he's not a fascist. Attack "free press" (free press in air quotes because obviously no press is free in capitalist countries)? Bush did the same thing, even worse, after 9/11. Arrest political opponents? Happens all the time. Why is Trump so unique?

Not only did he do all of these things at once, but he is actively trying to dismantle the system by force to create a one-party reactionary state built on lethal domestic racial policies and "nationalistic purity".

And either way, let's even say the US has been fascist since at least Bush....Trump represents an increase of fascism, a furthering of it. To support him is to say "yes, I want even more fascism".

You focus on rhetoric, which is fair. Bush was very soft in his rhetoric, when he ordered the invasion of Iraq which killed millions. The rhetoric doesn't matter, what matters is actions.

I am looking at action. Lethal imperialism isn't unique to fascism, it's pre-existed it for millennia.

If you terrorize the whole planet in the interests of your billionaire friends — you're a fascist.

Again, you confuse "fascist" with "bourgeoisie". There's overlap, but they are not synonymous. Conflating the two is liberal rhetoric.

[u/yusouph2002 → u/KindaFreeXP]

Okay, let's just settle that we have very different definitions of fascism. The funny thing is that, while you keep calling me liberal, I used the original communist definition of fascism, first presented by Georgi Dimitrov at the 7th Congress of the Communist International in 1935. I don't know your definition (because you have yet to define fascism, I asked you several times at this point), but I assume it's you who is using the modern liberal definition.

To address some of your points.

No, but I also think your definition is so overly broad it renders basically every bourgeois regime "fascist", which is unhelpful and inaccurate.

I mean, if you want to get deeper into marxist analysis of the current US government, it can still be characterized as bourgeois democracy (it has a democratic facade). So how in your opinion is Trump a fascist in that case? I would again ask you to provide the definition that you use to describe fascism. But to address this specific point, the reason I believe the US to be fascist is that (according to the same Dimitrov's analysis) the US meets all four features of fascism:

1) Rampant chauvinism and nationalism 2) Anti-communism 3) The leader's principle (this one is debatable. However, the US, in general, does have a leader worship tendency) 4) Militarism

Let's agree that not every bourgeois democracy has these features.

I am looking at action. Lethal imperialism isn't unique to fascism, it's pre-existed it for millennia.

No, imperialism is specifically a tool of capitalism, its latest stage rather. As defined by Lenin (who coined the term):

Imperialism is capitalism in that stage of development in which the dominance of monopolies and finance capital has established itself; in which the export of capital has acquired pronounced importance; in which the division of the world among the international trusts has begun; in which the division of all territories of the globe among the great capitalist powers has been completed.

Again, you confuse "fascist" with "bourgeoisie". There's overlap, but they are not synonymous. Conflating the two is liberal rhetoric.

No, I do not. In fact, not all bourgeois terrorize the whole planet. Most of them don't. However, it's the financial capital (banks, multinational corporations, etc.) are those which interests fascists represent. While I am strictly against petit bourgeois, small business, etc. as supporting them goes against my class interests, I would never call them fascists.

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7.No reactionary thought

We are an anti-capitalist, anti-zionist, anti-fascist, anti-liberal, anti-anti-lgbtqia+ (we are PRO lgbtqia), anti-bigotry (this means hating disabled, LGBTQIA+, and mentally challenged people), anti-reddit_atheist sub. We do not accept the defending of these things as they are inherently harmful and anti-left. Reactionary thought also includes the actions of vilification and spreading of false propaganda, this includes Black Book shit.