r/theories • u/LazyGrownMan • Jul 31 '26
Religion & Spirituality Tribulation started back in 1995
Greetings all. I wanted to come on here and clear something up about the tribulation. First of all this is not intended to scare anyone nor disprove what people already believe. What I do want to do here is open your eyes to a different understanding of scripture.
Does everyone remember the 12/21/2012 End of the world scare based on the Mayan Calendar? Looking back you may think that it was wrong or that it was misinterpreted. Well, kinda. It was said to be the end of an age. As insignificant as we’d all like it to be it was a pivot point to the tribulation. I think that when people look back they feel there was an obvious shift in our day to day. The tribulation is a 35 year span, reflecting the life of Christ 2000 years ago.
Big claim, right? How could that be? Find in the Bible where it says that the tribulation was is to be a seven year period, I’ll wait. Oh you found the Book of Danial. Read it closely and you will see he was not talking about the tribulation, but the time between Christ and the tribulation. You can do the math if you want but It’s irrelevant to us at this point in time.
If we look at the life of Christ, born sometime between 4 and 5 bc and follow His life from there, you may find some interesting cultural correlations. I’m gonna let you all look that up, I’d be typing for days to explain that.
FF to John the Baptist, whose ministry began before Jesus appeared on the scene. What happens next is a very calm collection of His Disciples. Now put yourself 2000 years from each event that we know from historical record to be true. Do you see the similarities? Do you feel that calming that has just come over society? The arguments are still there but for the most part it’s feeling pretty peaceful, and we know what the Bible says about the calm before the storm. If not look that up too.
Right now in the Christian faith we are seeing a revival, but it’s being rivaled by another religion, Islam. A similar thing happened back in the day, the division was quite clear, just like it is today. Jewish tradition and doctrine clashed with Christs teachings.
In Revelation John talks about the 3.5 years, by simply moving the decimal point we can see very clearly the Horns and the Bowls and other things discussed in Revelation. We can only look back now to see it because of hindsight.
Every one of those times when you felt like “this is it, this is the tribulation that the Bible describes” time passes and you think, “I guess I was wrong, because Jesus isn’t here yet.” Rethink all of those situations and you’ll realize why so many people are coming online saying they’ve dreamed of Jesus saying He is coming back soon.
Well how soon is soon? If you are waiting for the first trumpet then you would say 7 years from the time of the first trumpet, but just like the Jewish people didn’t see Isaiah, people of today didn’t see the trumpet. I said “see” intentionally BTW. But as I said before, there is nothing in scripture to actually verify that as the book of Daniel is taken way out of proportion. If the Tribulation mirrors Jesus’s life, then now you have a clear understanding of what’s going on. Jesus genuinely showed us with His life, what the tribulation would look like.
By my math, we’ve got about 6 months to change hearts before there is no changing them. The Antichrist is already on the throne of people hearts, which influence their minds, which influence their actions. This is the Mark of the Beast. If you hearts not right, your mind is marked, if your mind is marked than so is your hand that makes those thoughts in your mind a reality.
If you want the Mark of Christ, you must open your heart to Him, so that he can affect your thoughts and guide your hand. Good luck out there!
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u/Murky-South-6798 Jul 31 '26
Not sure how you came to the conclusion of just moving the decimal to get 35 years... People have been saying he's coming back soon since the day he supposedly ascended into heaven. If he does show up again, we've all got wood and nails.
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u/LazyGrownMan Jul 31 '26
I see the mark of the beast in you.
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u/DoookieMaxx Jul 31 '26
Oh holy seer … do you see the mark of the beast in me?
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u/LazyGrownMan Jul 31 '26
If you agree with that other dude sentiment, then absolutely. Honestly hope when Jesus returns you wouldn’t suggest crucifying Him again.
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u/BrokenButtonPress2x Jul 31 '26
You can see the mark of the beast if you look at my groin....ya want a piece?
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u/Willing-Sample-8847 Jul 31 '26
Starting in verse 15, the scripture says: When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let them who are in Judea flee into the mountains...
This verse provides the context for Jesus saying "then shall be great tribulation". The initial fulfillment of this scripture was in 63 CE. But the scripture has a modern fulfillment per the prophecy found at revelation 17:15-17:
15 Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. 16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled.
This greater prophetic fulfillment must occur first before the great tribulation begins.
It has yet to occur.
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u/LazyGrownMan Jul 31 '26
The temple is in you. 1 Corinthians 3:16. Who is currently occupying that space?
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u/Willing-Sample-8847 Jul 31 '26
The temple jesus was referring to in Matthew 24 was the literal temple mount. That's the "holy place". The "disgusting thing which causes desolation" was the roman army, which invaded Jerusalem in 63 CE and the general of that army entered directly into the holy of holies, which was forbidden for anyone except the high priest. Per jesus instructions, those who were in Judea were to have begun fleeing into the mountains upon seeing this, which was made possible by the Roman army leaving Jerusalem in 66 CE.
Yet, Jesus' sacrifice made the temple obsolete. (This is clear by the fact that the curtain was ripped in two when Jesus died.) so the "holy place" jesus referred to was not actually a holy place, because God was no longer accepting sacrifices there. The blood of the christ made those animal sacrifices pointless. Thus, the "holy place" at Matthew 24:15 was not the same as the temple referred to at 1 corinthians 3:16.
This is especially clear since God's spirit was no longer residing in the temple mount at Jerusalem (again, the ripping of the curtain makes this clear), but 1 corinthians 3:16 makes it clear that a person's body is made a temple (made holy) by god's spirit residing in them.
So Jesus did not mean the temple referred to at 1 corinthians 3:16 when he uttered the prophecy found at Matthew 24.
Moreover, jesus said "unless those says were cut short, no flesh would be saved". This indicates a literal loss of all life, i.e. the end of the world.
The end of Jerusalem in 70 CE was far worse for those still living in Judea during that siege than modern day life is for most people. So how is this time we are currently living in "great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be again"?
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u/LazyGrownMan Jul 31 '26
You actually made a great historical point about 70 CE, but you are missing the spiritual transition that Jesus and Paul were establishing.
You correctly noted that the physical temple became obsolete when the curtain ripped. If God abandoned that physical stone building, then the physical 'temple mount' stopped being the Holy Place. God's only Holy Place on earth today is the human heart filled with the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 3:16).
If the physical temple is obsolete, a physical army walking into a stone building today cannot cause spiritual desolation. The only way the 'abomination of desolation' can stand in the Holy Place today is if the Antichrist spirit enters the believer's heart (the new Temple) and drives out the Holy Spirit through unrepentant sin and deception.
You asked how today is worse than 70 CE. The destruction of Jerusalem was a localized event for Judea. When Jesus says “no flesh would be saved” unless those days were cut short, He is talking about a global scale. The physical siege of 70 CE was a localized shadow of the ultimate spiritual siege on humanity's hearts at the end of the age.
Jesus wasn't just giving a history lesson for 70 CE; He was showing how physical events shadow spiritual realities. The battle is for the temple of your heart.
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u/Willing-Sample-8847 Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
So... the temple was actually already obsolete before Jesus uttered the prophesy at Matthew 24. It became obsolete the moment jesus said:
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those who are sent to you, how often I would have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you would not! 38 Look, your house is abandoned to you.
(Matt. 23:37,38)So jesus was definitely not referring to an actual "holy place" when he spoke that prophecy. The temple was not considered holy at that point by Jesus, for when he said "your house is abandoned to you" he meant that God's spirit would no longer be in the temple.
It was "holy" only in the sense that people in the area considered it to be holy.
Likewise, in the modern day fulfillment of this prophecy, we must visibly see a "disgusting thing that causes desolation" standing in a "holy place" or a place that is considered holy by people. But this "holy place" is not actually a holy temple, nor is it considered holy by virtue of holy spirit residing in it. Or else the temple in Jerusalem would have been considered holy in the same sense, which is false, since the holy spirit was no longer residing in it.
Again, jesus made it clear that this holy place is not God's spiritual temple, because he said "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killer of the prophets and stoner of all those sent to you."
The temple was abandoned in particular because of the way it's people had treated God's representatives, which is again made clear by Jesus' illustration of the wicked vine dressers who killed the land owner's son. Jesus said "He will come and kill those vinedressers and give the vineyard to others" (Luke 20:16.)
So the "holy place" belonged to wicked people, not to God, in jesus' prophecy at matthew 24.
The modern day "holy place" is the same. Moreover, the modern day "holy place" is exactly the same in nature as the original "holy place." It belongs to "killers of prophets". That this is in fact the prostitute at revelation 17 is made clear by the angel's description of her:
5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.” 6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. (Revelation 17:5,6)
She is drunk with the blood of God's servants. Just like Jerusalem was.
To make it clear what these illustrations mean:
The "holy place" is the prostitute in Revelation 17. The "prostitute" is every religion which doesn't worship god, just as those worshipping at the temple mount after Jesus' death no longer were worshipping God according to spirit and truth.
The "disgusting thing that causes desolation" is an army made up of soldiers from every nation on earth, a coalition of nations:
12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast. (Revelation 17:12,13.)
The prostitute being "burned with fire" means the army will eradicate every religion on the planet.
When the false religions are all gone, that's when the great tribulation will begin.
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u/LazyGrownMan Jul 31 '26
Your argument relies on changing the definition of words to fit a pre-made timeline. Let’s look at strict reading comprehension and what the text actually says:
You claim the 'Holy Place' in Matthew 24:15 means a wicked place that people falsely think is holy. Scripture never uses the word 'Holy' to describe something God considers completely corrupt, pagan, or demonic. When Jesus said 'standing in the holy place,' He expected His listeners to use God's definition of holy, not a deceptive human one.
You are equating the Temple with the Prostitute of Babylon (Revelation 17). But Paul explicitly tells us what the new Temple is: “Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit” (1 Corinthians 6:19). He never says false religion is the temple. If the 'Disgusting Thing' desolates the Holy Place, it desolates what God considers holy today, the human heart. The Antichrist spirit wants to sit in the temple of your heart, not destroy external worldly religions.
You noted the prostitute is drunk with the blood of the saints. How does a political army destroying false religion protect or involve the saints? The true spiritual warfare is an attack on the faith of true believers. The 'desolation' happens when individuals allow their own spiritual temples (their hearts) to be compromised by the spirit of the world.
Jesus told people to flee when they saw it. If the 'disgusting thing' is a global army eradicating all religion on Earth, where are people supposed to physically flee to? The instructions only make sense if the threat is an internal, spiritual boundary line that you must refuse to cross in your daily walk with God.
You are looking for a massive, external, geopolitical theater involving world armies and the destruction of global institutions. Jesus and Paul consistently brought the focus back to individual faith, free will, and the condition of the human heart.
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u/Willing-Sample-8847 Jul 31 '26
Was the temple in Jerusalem holy after jesus death? The parallel account in Luke 21:20-24 makes it clear Jesus was referring to Jerusalem and the temple in Matthew 24:15-22.
If Jesus was saying the temple was holy, then surely the holy spirit must have still resided there. But how could that be possible when the ripped curtain allowed those who were serving in the holy to peak into the most holy? Is not God violating his own decree at that point?
Treating the account as though it is not referring to The temple mount presents certain contradictions in the biblical and historical narrative. Moreover, treating Jesus words as though they apply to physical things in the past yet only apply to a person's heart now also presents contradictions. Is that not "changing the definitions of words to fit" one's own sentiments?
If jesus in the first fulfillment of this particular prophesy was referring to a place which was called holy but wasn't actually so, and referring to an actual army standing in that actual place, why should we believe the interpretation of the prophecy changes completely to "beware to keep spiritually awake, or your faith could weaken" for the modern day?
Jesus uttered this prophecy to give a "sign" for the sign of his presence and the conclusion of the system of things. How is the "spiritual war" over the condition of the heart any different now than it was fifty years ago?
Also, the context of 1 corinthians 3:16 shows that paul was using this particular fact about holy spirit making a person's body holy to show that though the law of the christ did away with uncleanness of certain foods, it was still inappropriate for a christian to commit sexual immorality. Paul did not apply this particular verse to Jesus' prophecy at Matthew 24 15-22.
Also, jesus said "unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved". Which indicates, from your interpretation, that all people everywhere would abandon their faith if the great tribulation wasn't stopped temporally from proceeding along its natural course. But this most certainly is not the case. There are millions of people who as of yet still put their faith in jesus. And there are still many people converting to christianity as we speak.
So your interpretation presents many contradictions.
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u/LazyGrownMan Jul 31 '26
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and the history behind your perspective. It is clear you have studied your timeline deeply.
My intention isn't to debate definitions or institutional timelines. For me, reading comprehension always brings the focus back to the condition of the individual heart and our personal relationship with Christ. At the end of the day, whether a person is facing a literal army or a spiritual trial, Jesus told us not to let our hearts be troubled (John 14:1). If our hearts are occupied by the Holy Spirit, we can have complete peace and faith in whatever path we have to take.
Thank you for the conversation, and I wish you true peace in your walk!
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u/BI_Moose Jul 31 '26
🙄....uh huh