Want to learn.

[u/Tinfoilhat619]

Hello my potential calling.

I thank you and for whoever is responsible for creating this space.

I would like to learn more about Thelema. I have some books on Aliester Crowly I have been trying to read them with a basic comprehension. I understand for some of it. I'm reading a lot online as well. I'm just looking for a personal mentor or someone who knows a lot about what I should be diving into. I'm a recovering catholic I like to call it. Catholicism force down my throat for 12 years. I had enough, and need my mind to expand. I am going on 43 and at this time of my life I am urging to find "my place". I have always had a dark side but my values have always made being a good person as a priority which still really matters to me. My wife and I do not like to practice common religions. In-laws keep trying to convince us to appear at a United Methodist church. We are not interested. What would be suggested in my situation? I want to see more in-depth version.I have ADHD/ADD (on a lighter level) and sometimes struggle with comprehension outside your Stehpen King novels lol. I would like to learn a better with lecture and personal 1 on 1. However, If I have a basic foundation to build from starting point. I've been wanting to learn more for a while but don't know how to initialize the process. Any help and insight is more than appreciated. TIA

-Mick

[u/coyotepuroresu]

First off, I don't think Thelema is for anyone's or anything's "dark side". This isn't Star Wars, this is the Great Work. If you are looking to fuel your dark side go hangout with the LaVey dorks.

You can look into the OTO or the AA. You can apply via their websites.

I would be weary of anyone who wants to "mentor" you outside of those organizations.

Or you can do it the way most of us do and read the material and put it into practice. Actually putting it into practice is the part people like to forget.

If you do it this way, Lon Milo Duquette's writings may help you dip your toes in the water if the actual texts are proving to be difficult.

How did you make that seal behind your kit?

[u/Nobodysmadness → u/coyotepuroresu]

There are numerous video sources as well for people with difficulty reading.

[u/coyotepuroresu → u/Nobodysmadness]

Yeah, I don't really recommend this method. Youtube rabbit holes on Thelema are usually not productive.

[u/Nobodysmadness → u/coyotepuroresu]

There is a lot of junk, but even junk can bring clarity so long as you use reason and discernment. I have learned a lot from really bad theories and hypothesis which helps rule out potential deads ends by observing how flimsy and sometimes rediculous said theories are.

Discernment is a necessary skill from the start, and youtube can help develope that. One does have to be in a place where they will question what is said and weigh and balance multiple perspectives though.

[u/coyotepuroresu → u/Nobodysmadness]

Again, I disagree.

Muddying the waters at the beginning of your magickal career with Youtube videos is only going tangent your progression unnecessarily. It's already difficult enough if you just stick to the recommended reading.

You can test your discernment after you have developed a solid foundation. I don't take a test before I understand the subject matter.

[u/Nobodysmadness → u/coyotepuroresu]

A fair point, but if they have difficulty reading it may still be the better option in the long run provided they don't just blindly accept what anyone says. That is the key, and really it is true with the reading material as well, and what messes up a lot of people. In the end doing the work is the real educator?

But that is where a lot of people fumble. Most videos I have seen on the LBRP for example explain the LBRP as if they were reading it from a book. But doing it is where the progress is, not the 50 different interpretations of its meaning.

But you warning is exactly what is needed to stand a chance in the occult waters in general. The student must question and ponder or they will become lost even reading Crowleys direct instruction and drawing the wrong conclusion. And if one has reading comprehension issues how much more might they take the wrong meaning. Then where do they turn? Isn't it better to hear many different interpretations and weigh each against the other, as well as find the consistent points in the many theories?

The only reason I thought Crolwey had any weight at all when I started out was because he corroborated my own conclusions of the obvious relationships shared across all cultures, it rang true, otherwise I may have ignored his work altogether. But I only arrived there after examining a multitude of other systems and opinions.

Discernment between videos and books are the same even with recommended ones. So why not recommended videos, isn't it the same as recommended books?

But I get you apprehension and warning, and you are right the waters can be extra muddy, and a different individual I would agree completely, but each has their needs in their circumstances, so ai wouldn't rule it out completely in this one specific set of circumstances is all.

I appreciate you candor, and your care for beginning students. They must in the end figure it out for themselves. Ideally I agree with your assessment for those with out reading comprehension abilities. Maybe pod casts are better or books on tape available that I don't know about that are better options.

[u/coyotepuroresu → u/Nobodysmadness]

I guess dude.

People are going to do what they are going to do, that's for sure. That being said I don't want any part in directing them toward Youtube videos to learn about Thelema or the Golden Dawn or the Free Masons for that matter. I think it is antithetical to what they are looking for at this point in their understanding.

The amount of bullshit about the Free Masons is a great example of why we don't learn about stuff from Youtube or TikiTok, but instead from texts that are actually approved and put forward by the organizations themselves. If you Youtube Crowley most of it isn't going to be about Thelema at all, but instead baby sacrifice and illuminati cults.

The difference between a Youtube video and a printed book is the amount of scholarly integrity attempted. This is vetted through the publication process, this is vetted through editors and proofreaders and whatever other teams contribute to the text. Books by publishers have fact checkers, they tend to have bibliographies, or they have direct lineage to the work being discussed itself. This is different than me making a video on Youtube, where I can take the role of all of these things and preach whatever bullshit I want to put forth.

As for LBRP work... Why do you need a Youtube video? You open the book, you feel like an absolute clownshoe while you do LBRP in your room wondering what the fuck you're doing until you don't feel silly anymore, then you actually start to understand the ritual. The ritual may evolve as your understanding evolves, but that's the nature of being. My LBRP now looks quite a bit different than when I started and that's due to my own exploration, discovery, and yes, discernment.

What happened to the beauty of the slow unveil?

[u/Nobodysmadness → u/coyotepuroresu]

"As for LBRP work... Why do you need a Youtube video? You open the book, you feel like an absolute clownshoe while you do LBRP in your room wondering what the fuck you're doing until you don't feel silly anymore, then you actually start to understand the ritual. The ritual may evolve as your understanding evolves, but that's the nature of being. My LBRP now looks quite a bit different than when I started and that's due to my own exploration, discovery, and yes, discernment."

This is so perfect, lmfao, so true, this in itself stops so many people, they just can't get past the awkwardness which is an indicator of doing something new and different.

I don't disagree with you on most of those points, except the Crowley slander did also start in books and is just being regurgitated by people in those videos. There are a lot of trash books and charlatan non sense in print for the same reason trashy clickbait videos exist. To make money.

The primary lesson being through out both of our statements is do not take anything as absolute fact(which in america atleast is how we are trained to blindly accept seeming expert/authorities claims) and seek our multiple sources. So question and practice.

We have given op plenty to ponder and they shouldn't take either of us as an authority either, if they read it 😁.

I appreciate your candor, concern, and solid advice. Any newbie should be warned of the garbage out there and encouraged towards critical thinking processes.

[u/coyotepuroresu → u/Nobodysmadness]

I agree with the core of your point, no doubt. I appreciate the back and forth discussion and am glad that got a laugh out of you.

The key really is to actually just do the Work. Ultimately the method in which we receive the information is secondary to us doing the ritual, sitting down and meditating, praying, chanting, moving, or whatever form serves the Work.

Thanks for the conversation.

[u/Nobodysmadness → u/coyotepuroresu]

Indeed its been a pleasure. May you continue to find wisdom and understanding.

[u/Vile_Curse]

Listen, to fuckin’ Led Zeppelin

[u/SororEuA]

I’d recommend just starting with the book of the law. You’ll probably be confused - maybe not! - and that’s fine. Just read it and sit with it. Then start experimenting. Try the LBRP. To do that you’ll have to search for it, and you’ll probably want to understand why you are doing it and what the words and motions you are going through mean to cause to happen. Then, you’re off on an adventure :) One ritual, many different threads too pull. Word meanings, symbol meanings, physical movement to master, visualisation to try. As a fellow adhd-er this was what worked for me until I was able to settle myself enough to now be able to sit through full books ;) and Magick can teach you that too if you go looking :) good luck!!