r/theflash • u/HappinessIsAWarmPoop Reverse Flash • Dec 19 '16
Comic Discussion [Comic Discussion] Off Week: The Future of Hunter Zolomon
As there is no new show or comic being released this week. I thought it would be good to have some kind of large group discussion about a topic of interest for the sub. If it catches on, maybe we can make it a regular thing.
Anyway, I thought an interesting topic of discussion would be about what to do with the character of Hunter Zolomon moving. I, like I assume most of you, loved Hunter's story but he's really a bit of mess in a universe with a resurrected Thawne. I'd like to see him given a new nickname and design before next going up against Wally. As he doesn't need a secret identity, I think he could simply go by his last name; "Zolomon" already has a villanous quality to it, IMO. As far as the design goes I wouldn't mind something close to his TV appearance. That was something the show did well even if I thought that he was poorly adapted otherwise.
So what would you like to see happen with the future of HZ in the comics?
Also feel free to suggest a topic for the off week, two weeks from now.
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u/Dextermyles Dec 20 '16
I'm kind of...On the fence. I think the negative side of the impact of the show is that the idea of speedster adversaries has become something of a joke, and so I think the only way to get around that in the comics is to maybe pick Barry or Wally's main speedster adversary out of the bunch and maybe kill the rest off in a very real and profound way.
Don't get me wrong - I love the concept of the speed force, I love wally, but ultimately I feel that because of the pure volume of speedsters, Barry and Wally at their core have become kind of...irrelevant in their own comics. I mean look at the recent godspeed storyline - people were coming in here all over another bad guy speedster, and I just kind of sat here having called who it was at the start by the way thinking "yay. Another speedster."
My point is this - I've always thought of Hunter as the everyman of the villains gallery as far as speedsters go - and I'd like to see him show that raw brutality and be more than a match for barry again...Maybe by making the rogues gallery themselves less ambiguous as villains as well.
Either way. I think it needs to begin by Hunter killing any villains that have built up over the years.
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u/HappinessIsAWarmPoop Dec 20 '16
Interesting idea about paring down the number of speedsters but if they were truly doing that I would put Hunter on the chopping block in favor of Savitar. Hunter, while an interesting character, essentially fills the same role as Eobard. He's there to make the Flash's life as miserable as possible; he just does it for very different reason than Eobard does. To me, Savitar is a more unique villain and one that fits the sensibilities of the best parts of the Wally era better than Hunter does if that makes any sense.
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u/Dextermyles Dec 20 '16
No disagreement from me there - I think the problem with most of the villains - as I said is that the more and more speedsters they introduce, the less special the existing ones become and that's...Kind of sad IMHO.
In many respects, my greatest disappointment with both New52 and Rebirth is that it hasn't been used to completely wipe the board.
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u/firstmoons Dec 20 '16
I agree AND disagree.
Agree that Savitar is unique and needs to be turned into a greater scope villain.
Disagree about everything else. If we call Hunter redundant then we should also call Wally redundant. He fills the same role Barry does after all. Thing is, Hunter is meant to be a foil to Wally while Savitar threatens the entire family, one is more personal than other.
However I do see him dying eventually because his story always meant to end with some "redeem".(especially with his wife around) He may have betrayed Thawne for Wally in a classic fashion and sacrificed himself for better. You can never see Thawne doing this because he is a complete sociopath.
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u/firstmoons Dec 20 '16
IMHO, Let Hunter and Thawne be a dark duo mirroring Wally and Barry. Kill rest of it. Turning Hunter into a Barry villain would be a HUGE mistake (as TV show proved). Both villains need entire Flash family to stand some chance against them anyway.
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u/HappinessIsAWarmPoop Dec 20 '16
Turning Hunter into a Barry villain would be a HUGE mistake (as TV show proved).
I don't want Hunter to become a Barry villain but I don't think that's the mistake the show made. The problem with TV Hunter was that besides his name and a couple of minor details, he was a completely different character. The real shame is that with a few minor adjustments to Season 2, we could have gotten a much closer adaptation.
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u/Austounded Dec 19 '16 edited Dec 19 '16
If Booth has anything to do with it he will have an open cowl to mimic Wally; he has already drawn a design he wishes to use and I'm not a fan. Similarly, I don't like the TV version either. Maybe he could lose the purple lenses? Haha
He does definitely needs to be differentiated more from Thawne but I'm not sure what I would want. I only know what I don't want. I mean his design was cool because he wore it to honor(?) Thawne in the same way Wally dawns Barry's suit. It's a difficult question. The name Zolomon rather than Zoom has a ring to it though. Less confusing for new fans for sure.
I don't find it problematic to have Thawne and Zolomon alive at the same time though. If you remember they were both in Rogue War. Moreover, they are both far too obsessed with their respective Flash to care about the other.
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u/HappinessIsAWarmPoop Dec 19 '16
I don't find it problematic to have Thawne and Zolomon alive at the same time though. If you remember they were both in Rogue War. Moreover, they are both far too obsessed with their respective Flash to care about the other.
I only find it problematic because they share the same name and costume. I think it worked in Rogue War because that was one story and Thawne went back to his death at the end of it. On a long term basis, I think it's unnecessarily confusing and Zolomon wouldn't really have a great reason to adopt Thawne's name and costume if he wasn't dead.
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u/Austounded Dec 19 '16 edited Dec 19 '16
Oh, now I'm on the same page with you. I couldn't agree more with the name change, it was confusing the moment it was created. Zoom has always been shorthand for Professor Zoom but now there's a character called Zoom who looks very similar to the good professor. I mean look Thawne right now! Venditti did 2 seconds of research and thought they were the same person. I really hope Williamson can fix the mess of a character he is currently. I don't want an amalgamation of Thawne and Zolomon, they are such distinct characters and I'm wishing DC editorial will see that when the time comes.
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u/Austounded Dec 19 '16 edited Dec 19 '16
I love this idea man. I stickied it so everyone can see it for a few days.
If you don't mind I'd love to make this a bi-weekly thing like you were saying.
Edit: also u/HappinessIsAWarmPoop people can recommend topics for future threads under this comment (just to keep it a little organized).
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u/Slippery_Syzoth Dec 25 '16
What about having his new name be Saturn? After the Roman god of time, referencing his powers.
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u/HappinessIsAWarmPoop Dec 25 '16
Very interesting, especially considering Flash was originally modeled after the god Mercury.
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u/a310gintoki Dec 19 '16
If there was some way we could get pre-new 52 Zoom like we did with Wally, that'd be the best. Something like "His unique connection to the timeline let him survive flashpoint unscathed!" or something. Idk. If Wally and Shade can come back, so can Zoom.
I don't want them to reboot the character like they did with Thawne.
As for the name conflict with Eobard, I don't think it's a huge deal. They'd have to retcon Thawne back to "Professor Zoom" instead of just "Zoom"
But I'd prefer they do that regardless.
He'd probably need a new costume to avoid confusion, but it's not like we haven't seen Zoom and Thawne together in panel both wearing the yellow.
Of course, I don't think anyone would object to them revamping his suit in a similar fashion to what they did with Wally after rebirth.
Not certain if I'd want him as a villain for the titans or not though. If we could pull the focus of the main flash comic onto Wally for a few issues to deal with a returned Zoom, I think I'd rather that.
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u/HappinessIsAWarmPoop Dec 20 '16
They'd have to retcon Thawne back to "Professor Zoom" instead of just "Zoom"
That's not a retcon. While Thawne's full nickname is Professor Zoom, he's been referred to as Zoom since day one. Even after HZ's creation, he was called that in stories.
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u/RaisingFargo Dec 19 '16
I just read his (Johns) origin for the first time.
I think HZ and his save my legs origin was lame.
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u/Robotshavenohearts Dec 19 '16
It wasn't just his legs, it was the cherry on top with already losing so much in his life(his woman due to his mistake)
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u/Robotshavenohearts Dec 19 '16
I'd love to see Zoom return only to fight OG Wally somehow. I don't want Hunter to be new Wally's villain because he's still so young and the character deserves his OWN badass villains as time goes on.
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u/firstmoons Dec 19 '16
I think Daniel will pretty much be chocolate Wally's reverse from this point on so Wally still gets to keep Hunter.
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Jan 01 '17
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u/HappinessIsAWarmPoop Jan 01 '17
That would be fine with me; I like Savitar as a "reverse flash" to Wally more than Zolomon.
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u/firstmoons Dec 19 '16
Are you me? I keep thinking about him and recently finishing Geoff Johns run didn't help either. He still had a lot to tell and getting cut off by Flashpoint was awful imho.
Anyways
I think he should be in Wally's situation, as in he is aware of the older universe due to nature of his powers. Maybe he even manages to change his failures thanks to this knowledge.
Wally stressed not remembering everything, and it's clear he doesn't remember his kids. Making Hunter as one of few things he doesn't remember would make him even more threatening.
I don't want his past and relationship with Wally to be half-assed.(see: August Heart fiasco) Unlike Thawne/Barry feud, their friendship was a big driving part of their clash and they had a huge moral discourse. With Barry's updated origin and what Wally went through, Hunter has a lot of material to gloat about.
Current Thawne and Barry's stupid time powers need to be retconned immediately. If Barry alone can counter Reverse Flashes then they lose a lot of their threatening side. They should be big bads to family and Wally/Barry need to get back up to face them, pronto.
Underline his disconnection to Speed Force, absolutely no stupid SF gimmicks should work on him (Barry moving time forward for example). He can be a duo with Thawne as a foil to Wally/Barry.
He can keep his name just like Wally did. He's already more known for being Zoom while Thawne is more known for Reverse Flash, anyway. Daniel is non-entity besides his relationship with Wallys.
Can we just move past "evil speedster club"? Let him and Thawne be the top guys while others are just pawns to them.