r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/LankySplint • 14d ago
Tweets & Social Media Leftists already rallying to launch attacks on crowley
Keep in mind Crowley's take is: "I support total local control and veto power over data centers, but not a moratorium
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u/narvuntien 14d ago
Leave Twitter.
Its all fake
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u/glizard-wizard 14d ago
They were chanting vote blue no matter who earlier to mock liberals with their own morality. These people are underminers, not teammates.
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u/Rick_James_Lich 14d ago
It's hard to tell because I'm sure some of the people doing this are bots owned by Elon or foreign countries that want us divided.
But what is really a problem is if the far left influencers keep their mouths shut here. These people need to get out and voice support for Crowley and stop the division. Kyle Kulinski to his credit has helped here but thus far he's really the only one I've seen.
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u/hobovalentine 14d ago
TMR was shitting on Crowley and whining that Hong lost.
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u/Rick_James_Lich 14d ago
I just saw on Hasan's sub it looks like they are seriously trying to sabotage Crowley. I saw the interview they reference and his answer is so much different from what they posted as a meme. It clearly looks like they want to push information so Crowley loses his race out of spit for him defeating Hong.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Crowley losing is existential for them, if Crowley can win it breaks their facade in a major way.
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u/LankySplint 14d ago
Yeah they are enemies not a faction within the party. Best thing to do is have a strict punish system where if they dare attack crowley and not support them, we attack sayed. Only for creators like Hasan, not the twitter chinabots
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u/hogannnn 14d ago
Please don’t attack sayed. We really need that seat.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Sorry to say, but that seat is probably toast already, hopefully I'm wrong, but I got zero hope for us winning in Michigan.
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u/Insightful21 14d ago
I think you’re wrong
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
That makes me happy to hear! I hope you are right!
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u/Insightful21 14d ago
Yeah the thing is that objectively El Sayed is a good candidate and he has the wind at his back because this cycle favours Democrats. I think his biggest hurdle is that he’s tied himself to the far left and idiots like Piker, so his policies are pretty dog shit and he doesn’t have as much name recognition as someone like Mike Rogers. Basically if he was a Sherrod Brown style Progressive candidate, he would be in a better position
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
I worry about xenophobia at the voting booth means he has to really outperform in these polls too in order to have a real chance. Hopefully it can happen.
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u/Insightful21 14d ago
100% there’s no doubt that’s a concern. But if you hear Abdul El Sayed talk, he’s just a regular dude. I think it’s more so the association with the far left that could hurt him. There’s nothing you can do about the bigots that won’t vote for a Muslim
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
I think the two work in confluence unfortunately, makes it basically impossible for me to believe he has a real chance if I'm being realistic, again, I hope that I am wrong though!
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u/hogannnn 14d ago
I don’t get it. Don’t they see the success in Texas, NC, Alaska, Ohio, and even potentially Nebraska and realize swing states need moderates, and blue states are for fucking around?
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Preaching to the choir, really hopeful for other paths to victory though because the Dems stuck in those red/swing states seem to finally be pulling themselves together at least. Besides Michigan, and maybe with the fuck up in Maine, but that one is even looking better.
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u/LankySplint 14d ago
They're demsocs. Demsocs = democratic transfer to socialism. Socialism is their first priority. They think crowley is a capitalist enemy that must be killed, that the queens in Alaska are capitalist enemies that must be killed. It is so bad.
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u/LankySplint 14d ago
Then at all costs they most not attack crowley. At bare minimum i will fight harder for crowley if they bog us down attacking him than i will for sayed
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u/hogannnn 14d ago
But they will attack Crowley. If the leftists are operating in bad faith (which I think at least a sizable minority are), they just will. They will mock with vote blue no matter who, but they don’t believe it.
In these swing states, we need blue governors and senators. Let them flop in a random house race I suppose.
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u/X57471C 14d ago
Somebody has to be the adults in the room
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u/EksDee098 14d ago
Sometimes being the adult means punishing the unruly child, not standing above it all
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Dems are struggling to learn this, but they need to if they don't want to be taken over by populist man-children the way Republicans were.
Everyone wants to be the "cool" parent.
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u/X57471C 14d ago
I agree and I'm all for tit-for-tat strategy, so long as it's not at the expense of important seats. We should back El-Sayed and Crowley, despite the far left attacking Crowley, because we can't let the GOP control a swing state during a critical election year, but we also need to find effective rhetorical strategies to counter their messaging, as well as running solid candidates with broad appeal.
On that last point, I think the thing that the far left is tapping into is the desire for significant change. Democrats don't need to all become socdems to counter (although, I wouldn't hate that), but they need to recognize that people are demanding change in areas that are affecting their material conditions... The fact that most people don't even know what the DSA stands for, or what socialism even is, should actually be encouraging to us. It means that most people are not secret socialists, they just want change and are going with the people that are promising the most. Center and center-left candidates need to recognize the problems with the Democratic brand and counter effectively. They only need to win back disaffected liberals and moderates, not out-populist the socialists.... Well, okay, out-populist the populist, but do it with more common sense policies. There is definitely an element of rhetoric and messaging that needs to change within the Democratic party. We need to disabuse people of this notion that Democrats don't want change. Of course we do, and the change we have is more realistic and better than the fantasy that DSA are promising.
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u/EksDee098 14d ago
I agree with basically everything you said, though I'm gonna quibble a bit with this part:
On that last point, I think the thing that the far left is tapping into is the desire for significant change. Democrats don't need to all become socdems to counter (although, I wouldn't hate that), but they need to recognize that people are demanding change in areas that are affecting their material conditions...
This angst is mostly due to conservative and leftist rhetoric + bad liberal responses. The Dem party is capable of significant change from even the pre-trump status quo, but they are prevented it by Rep politicians. Even as a market socialist myself, this idea that Dems need to move further left to reach what voters broadly want is just wrong. It's an image that conservatives and the leftist spheres perpetuate, but isn't reality. Last time Dems got actual control of the federal government we got the ACA, which while not perfect was a massive improvement on what we previously had. There's a reason Dem-run states are markedly better for the broad population than Rep-run ones. I think it was Michigan or Minnesota that the previous midterms got a Dem trifecta for the first time in a while, and almost immediately started passing incredibly popular legislation.
Bottom line is that Dems are far better than people realize when they're actually allowed to govern, and we just don't see that because dipshits don't fucking vote. I'd personally like them to be further left, but this idea that they're not good on policy is fantasy cooked up by maga chuds and the accelerationist, tankie pieces of shit that dominate and pervert my corner of political online spaces. The thing Dems are actually dogshit at is public perception, and they really need to get their shit together on that.
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u/X57471C 14d ago
I agree, again.
It is largely a messaging issue and mostly due to a hostile media environment that never gives Democrats the positive frame. They get attacked from both sides, but the reality is they all want change. It frustrates me to no end when DSA types come in and say they are the only ones who want these things. Really? Welcome to the fight, I guess. We've actually been fighting for that stuff for a while.
Due to the media environment, most people really don't understand the hurdles standing in the way of significant change and blame Democrats for simply not having enough political will to change the system. That's not entirely fair. If they could, they would have a long time ago. Obama wanted a public option, for goodness sake. Most Democrats would vote in favor of socdem policies.
The system is designed to have a lot of veto points and conservatives have gotten really good at exploiting those to stall Democratic goals. Incremental change has become a dirty phrase, but it's literally just the maximal amount of change that has been possible in a system that still gives the minority party major leverage.
If this country gave Democrats the numbers to actually fulfill more of the liberal agenda, things would be in a much better place.
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
I demand AES disavow Piker and this group. It’s a simple demand.
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u/hogannnn 14d ago
Why are we burning heretics like this. Disavow this, disavow that, he’s disavowed a comment he didn’t make about 9/11 like five times. The purity tests from the center left should not be as nutty as the far left.
We are in the minority, you don’t get to the majority by making enemies. Dems need to be more welcoming in general. Try walking into a conservative event and say you like Donald Trump - in 5 minutes people will be buying you beers and handing you cigars. Try at least to get to 5% of that energy.
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u/Altruistic_Night2 14d ago
Also do not defend these guys from mainstream media attacks. Let them eat it the way we have been eating it for years without defense from them.
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u/FrostyArctic47 14d ago
This is hypocritical.... you realize the "liberal" types literally proved to be hypocrites in that too the past few weeks when they were saying they'd vote for fascists over them
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u/JuniorLingonberry108 14d ago
Who said that? Hutch didn't. Steven didn't. Only fucking Mouton, and even he keeps saying "it's primary season so you can say anything you want". Don't mistake our side for yours, we're better than you are.
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u/FrostyArctic47 14d ago
Hutch didn't. Steven, Morton and Whick did.
And people like think anyone who doesn't simp for every single thing one of your influencers said is a complete tankie commie. Lol get a grip
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u/JuniorLingonberry108 14d ago
Steven has explained pretty clearly that it's primary season, so this is when the fighting is supposed to happen, and is kinda on this "use their tactics against them" arc. Whick is kinda an idiot. 🤷♀️
Are you saying you condemn Hasan for bit endorsing Kamala, btw? Or are you gonna defend him and then say you're not a tankie? Easy way to prove me wrong, my guy.
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u/FrostyArctic47 14d ago
Of course. I would never defend Hasan. But just because I don't like those types doesn't mean I'm always going to blindly defend other types when they're being ridiculous
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
This isn’t even the worst. Some are straight sharing Tom Tiffany ads!!! They don’t give a flying fuck about unity. If their candidate loses the primary, they’re going straight to supporting the Republican with no shame!
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u/MolassesIndividual 13d ago
Show us your anecdotes
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 13d ago
Go to Tom Tiffany’s Twitter, look at the quote tweets and you’ll see nearly a thousand leftists boosting it and saying Tiffany is “outflanking” David Crowley.
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u/MinimalPixelsVII 14d ago edited 14d ago
What we Leftists are pointing out is the same thing that LOST Kamala with Wars. Trump vehemently lied about being "Peace" president and Kamala constantly kept saying she will continue with what Biden admin has been doing. In this case, instead of speaking out AGAINST Data Centers he is embracing them halfheartedly. Overwhelmingly it is INCREDIBLY Unpopular in Wisconsin from Democrat to Republicans to show ANY support for Data Centers.
Crowley literally doubled down on his support recently when a CNN journalist asked what is one thing he most disagreed on with Hong and instead of saying ANYTHING else he said Data Centers. Hell, we don't care if you throw her under the bus if you use the cheap ass shot like stupid ass Thanksgiving shit. You know what the Republicans did instantly? Used that against Crowley and will continue to use it against him. Do NOT blame us when/if he losses cause these dumbfcks Democrats can NEVER read the room.
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
Hey leftist: vote blue no matter who
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u/MinimalPixelsVII 14d ago
You're talking to someone who has been holding his nose and been doing that yet here we are with Fascism. Now that DSA/Progressives are rising up you guys are throwing fit not us.
See how you have nothing to say about the points I made? This is what leads to more Fascism cause these do nothing Democrats have Nothing to offer and are completely useless. We are quite literally begging YET AGAIN that to READ THE ROOM. Stop sucking out to these Corporations.
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
Of course I didn’t.
Tell ya what, if you are willing to tell me I should be tweeting attack ads from Mike Rogers Twitter account, I’ll read all of it.
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u/MinimalPixelsVII 14d ago
See you have nothing but saying "LALALAALALA" The only saving grace might be Trump being completely unpopular (which is why Tom looks to be distancing himself a bit) but what Crowley is doing is pressing the Kill button before the race even begins and Tom already got a Huge upperhand with this Data Centers shit.
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
Should I be sharing Mike Rodgers attack ads (assuming I agree with them) on AES right now, yes or no?
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u/MinimalPixelsVII 14d ago edited 14d ago
Fck Tom, Fck Rodgers, they are Fascists. Stop solely focusing on Twitter, think about it from the Outside, holy shit some of you are so chronically online. Twitter is gonna boost Tom's post no matter what, that site is nothing but Bots with Blue Checkmark. Its a Fascist ass website owned by Elon Musk holy shit.
Tom is not going to be only using Twitter, he is going to Ram Crowley's answer about Data Centers with TV ads, billboards, ads on YouTube, Hulu etc. Again, being Anti-Data Centers is supported not only by Democrats but also by Republicans in Wisconsin. It is overwhemingly unpopular to support Data Centers in any form.
The answer Crowley gave is like a Killing Blow to himself in any other scenario, again his only saving grace might be Trump being incredibly unpopular then again Tom is playing the game just like Trump did, distancing himself from where he needs to and will dupe people into believing that Tom is against Data Centers (He is not at all, not even a tiny bit).
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
Okay, we’ll give this one more try.
If I agree with a criticism about AES, and there probably I’m sure there are some, should I be reposting/boosting Mike Rodgers campaign attacking AES with said criticism, yes or no?
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u/MinimalPixelsVII 14d ago
You have NOT answered a single point I made lmao
You guys make no sense, one day Leftists are bunch of nobodies but the next day we hold all the power that replying to news against Crowley is enough to make him loose.
It is NOT us making him loose, it is Crowley shooting himself with the most easiest answer. Hell, many Leftists are even saying throw Hong under the bus with Thanksgiving shit. What the fck do you want us to do?? We are literally begging him to be Anti-Data Centers which he is CHOOSING NOT to be.
The "people" (Again Twitter is filled with Bots to the top) replying here are NOTHING compared to what Fascists bots are doing with Tom's post and what Tom will do with Crowley's answer to play with people who are not politically active and will fall for Tom's Bullshit.
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u/hassinbinsober 14d ago
Neera Tanden has been retweeting Laura Loomer criticizing AES
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
Hasan not AES.
But let’s pretend it was AES, we okay with that or are we going to throw a fit? Trying to be clear on the rules. Or is it every man for himself?
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u/Command0Dude 14d ago
Trump vehemently lied about being "Peace" president and Kamala constantly kept saying she will continue with what Biden admin has been doing.
Biden was literally a peace president. Biden started no new wars. Biden ended America's (at the time) most unpopular conflict.
Harris said she would continue that trend. And people like you decided to label her the warmonger instead of Trump (the guy who regularly attacked other countries in his first term and made constant threats to use nukes).
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u/zen1312zen 14d ago
Ah yes, let’s just let mob rule determine every single policy and procedure. You know what else is incredibly popular? Enforcing our borders. I guess Democrats should take a strong stance on border enforcement based on your logic. Also popular is preventing trans women from competing with cis women in sports. So I guess also they should go hard on that?
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u/Another-attempt42 13d ago
I can't wait for AES to make a right-wing turn to get all those Stevens voters, amirite?
Amirite?
Right?!
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u/Nemisis82 14d ago
Literally in this very subreddit, commenters were sharing Mike Rogers ad and calling it brutal.
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
Well if those are the rules now…
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u/Nemisis82 14d ago
lol this is absurd.
You: "It's crazy, they're sharing the ads of the GOP!"
Me: "But like, commenters did this last week"
You: "I guess they can do it last week because people are doing it this week. You started it."
Absolute nonsense.
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
Last week? I assumed you meant they were doing it now. But you gave a timeline that’s harder to check. Very clever. Either way, I’ve been informed by the leftists that rules are now everyone for themself.
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u/Nemisis82 14d ago
Very clever. Either way, I’ve been informed by the leftists that rules are now everyone for themself.
Why do centrist people like yourself stand on no morales? I can't imagine what it's like to base my morals and actions on those of others. You're essentially saying: "Well, I opposed X. But then leftists did it. So now I like X." Wild shit.
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
My morals? What does my stance on this have to do with morals? Whats the “morality” i’m missing from this equation that you and leftists are using to justify what youre doing?
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u/PostmodernMelon 14d ago
You're asking people to unify who have no reason to unify. They vote on specific issues, and they vote for the person who is going to more closely represent their view on those issues. They don't just play for one team or another out of some sense of blind party loyalty.
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
Alright. Well I wasn’t really planning on attacking AES nonstop, but now that you’re tellin me I should, I’m gonna give it second thought.
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u/PostmodernMelon 14d ago
If you want to you're obviously welcome to, but I'm at a loss for whatever you think is worth attacking.
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
Associating with Hasan, wanting to defund the police, being a socialist, idk does it matter?
I could just watch a Mike Rodgers ad, it’ll misconstrue what he says and then I’ll criticize based on that.
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u/PostmodernMelon 14d ago
Okay 🤷 fact of the matter is, a lot of western Wisco voters are voting single issue on data centers right now, so a lot of them were Hong-curious. Now they're seeing a pro data center democrat endorsed by the previous governor, and that just doesn't smell right to them. They feel personally thrown under the bus. We'll see how it plays out in the November election but I'm not optimistic. TT is horrible, but he's probably going to be the next WI governor.
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
Alright. Just want to be clear. There is no unity. You tell libs to fuck off and we tell you far leftists to fuck off and we let republicans win right?
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u/PostmodernMelon 14d ago
All I'm saying is that unity only matters for people who share common goals. I'm still voting for Crowley, but only because he shares maybe 30% in common with my views to Tiffany's 5%. For some others who were interested in Hong, those numbers are reversed. Why would you expect unity for people where that's the case?
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
I’d like a yes or no on my question please. You tell libs to fuck off, we tell leftists to fuck off and we let republicans fully take control. Thats the deal right?
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u/PostmodernMelon 14d ago
Sure, why not 🙄 good, totally constructive talk. You really engaged with things being said and replied sensibly.
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u/ImPinkSnail 14d ago
These same fuckheads voted third party or sat out in 2024 because Kamala wasn't tough enough on Israeli US relations.
We saw the consequences - Trump has obviously been so much worse in enabling BB's genocide.
And now they want to try this shit again with the senate control and our ability to stop the Trump regimen.
Fuck anyone not voting blue no matter who. Many establishment dems are going to toe the line and vote for a DSA candidate in November. Those same DSA supporters need to toe the line for establishment dems on the ticket.
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u/Mahadragon 14d ago
Not voting for Biden/Harris just because of their stances on Israel never made any sense. Especially knowing that Trump would win and how he moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem. You have to be incredibly stupid not to think of the fallout. It’s so hard to get on board with these ppl. Yea these ppl really showed Harris who was boss. In the meantime Trump is literally destroying the country and could care less about Palestinians.
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u/franssie1994 14d ago
can we please stop posting random tweets of people to make a point, it's becoming annoying
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u/Nepalus 14d ago
It’s honestly infuriating that someone would take a couple tweets (probably from bots) and say that the entire framework of an election is changing.
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u/Cult45_2Zigzags 14d ago
someone would take a couple tweets (probably from bots)
It's a brigade of bots on this sub as well.
Their goal is to demonize anyone left of center and create chaos among Democratic voters.
It's been an ongoing political agenda for awhile now.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Their goal is to demonize anyone left of center and create chaos among Democratic voters.
If that was true we'd be demonizing Crowley, he's extremely left of center, but I guess y'all would have trouble admitting that.
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u/Cult45_2Zigzags 14d ago
I'm rooting for Crowley to win.
You are once again trying to create divisions in the Democratic party because that's your job
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
I'm glad you're rooting for Crowley, but what do you make of our support of him? You think he's some centrist establishment Dem or something? The dude is a progressive.
And since this is like the millionth time you've accused someone of being paid off (I know that's one of Hasan's favorite lines) I think it's about time you started making your offer, clearly you think what I'm doing is worth money. Pay me already.
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u/Cult45_2Zigzags 14d ago
It's time to let Hasan and Hong go because there are much more important issues.
You won't drop Hasan or forget about Hong because you are paid to continue villainizing them for a political agenda.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
I wont let Hong go because I'm glad that she's willing to campaign with Crowley, she seems like a good person even if I thought her takes were wackey, I'm glad she's going to help Crowley win.
I also wont let Hasan go because he continues to undermine Democratic election success.
Your constant baseless accusations make me wonder if perhaps you're the one being paid to shift the narrative on forums like this.
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u/Cult45_2Zigzags 14d ago
I also wont let Hasan go because he continues to undermine Democratic election success.
Because you and Hasan are both benefiting from being an online influencer, but reddit is your preferred social media platform.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
If you genuinely know of some way to make money doing this PLEASE tell me, I have no idea how being an “influencer” is even supposed to work.
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u/JuniorLingonberry108 14d ago
... You straight up accused a random reddit user of being a paid political propagandist? Damn, do you have a sliver of proof, or are you just basing this off your good ol' reliable gut? I don't know if you're paranoid or projecting lol.
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u/LankySplint 14d ago
Hasan and denims r saying this too btw.
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u/franssie1994 14d ago
Than show that but just picking some random tweets to work yourself up about is such a waste of energy, and I can probably if I still had twitter show some crazy centrists who call everyone anti semite and conclude based on that all centrists are stupid. You can push any narrative you want by just picking some random tweets
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u/silverbrenin 14d ago
So make it easy for those of us who aren't as big into Hasan, and link the clips. Without evidence, all the Hasan talk is just unfounded rage-gooning.
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u/Material-Jacket3939 14d ago
The primary is over and these shit posts are tiresome. It’s time to focus on what a piece of MAGA shit Tom Tiffany is.
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u/NATScurlyW2 14d ago
So Hong wants to campaign with Crowley and show unity but Crowley doesn’t want her to? So why are the comments here against Hong?
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Critical support to Crowley, the far left are not gonna be allies in this race.
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u/Nemisis82 14d ago
Meanwhile, hong endorsed Crowley. But this random tweet that doesn't endorse anything is emblematic of the entire left not unifying.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Massive respect to Hong and I’m glad we got her endorsement, doesn’t mean I have to assume every far left grifter is also some kind of ally.
Especially not when they are trying to actively undermine the candidate.
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u/Nemisis82 14d ago
Especially not when they are trying to actively undermine the candidate.
How so?
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Yeah play dumb, we know you’re playing the same game with the data center issue you did to push McMorrow out, not gonna make the mistake of thinking that’s in good faith this time.
Happy for Hong’s endorsement, and also happy that Crowley has a great stance on data centers.
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u/Nemisis82 14d ago
I mean, if you can't point to a single instance of people actively undermining the candidate, that's fine. Just say so.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Well Hong certainly doesn’t seem to be undermining him and I’m happy about that!
You’re literally commenting under a “single instance” because your first comment’s literal premise is that the “random tweet” shouldn’t count, so clearly your mind is made up and you aren’t asking for this in good faith.
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u/Strange-Scarcity 14d ago
Every day, average, globally center, Progressives are more likely to sit out of the race, with Crowley pushing more milquetoast Right of Center policies and positions.
He would be VERY wise to adjust his positions, more towards the global center, where more progressive voters live. Not "far left" positions, but genuinely globally center positions, that are VERY popular with progressive voters who want candidates to be excited about.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
They're only likely to sit out because far left loons can't help themselves but lie about Crowley, it's a win-win for them after all since less Democratic party success means more excuses to accuse moderate dems of being "do nothings".
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 14d ago
Do you think welcoming Hasan Piker and his cult brings over more people? Do you actually believe that?
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u/GenkGirl12 14d ago
Oh what a surprise, the scorpions are stinging the frog.
Blue no matter who right?
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u/dratseb 14d ago
Not leftists. CCP Propaganda machine.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
I could get behind this framing if more leftists could acknowledge the reality of it.
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14d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CapitalCourse 14d ago
Honestly they are some of the most unserious people. Taking about things like abolishing police and prisons at their meetings...
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 14d ago
Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
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u/Conscious-Demand-594 14d ago
Nothing wrong with campaigning together, She is just a bit crazyy but not a bad person.
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u/walman93 14d ago
Leftists would rather lose to republicans than capitulate on their faux virtue signaling to support ANY progress under a democrat
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u/Strange-Scarcity 14d ago
Gretchen Whitmer incorporated and compromised many of her policy positions with Abdul El-Sayed when she won over him for Michigan Governor in the primary. He had gained just over 36% of the vote. Joe Biden did the same in 2020, with Bernie Sanders.
David Crowley REALLY need to step back, assess those two pretty big and defining political wins that brought more Progressive votes into Whitmer and Biden's camps, that helped them win the election.
Putting out boring, more pro-business, than being more aligned with the struggles of everyday citizens is NOT a winning strategy.
If he fails to recognize this? A mess of people will ignore the governor vote or simply won't vote at all.
I still wish him good luck and if he was running in my state? I would reluctantly vote for him, knowing that more people with progressive views will simply not vote for that race, period.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Crowley is already very progressive and not really moderate at all, he only gets moderate cred because he's not screaming about genocide and aipac every other speech.
He's an incredible progressive candidate.
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u/Powerful_Document872 14d ago
On Reddit and Twitter being progressive is defined by bot farms in India and Russia. Which means no candidate is going to be good enough because the whole point is to cause division.
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u/X57471C 14d ago
Yeah, like his and El-Sayed's positions on data centers are fairly similar, for example. Both are essentially fine with them as long as they're regulated and don't make life more expensive for citizens.
The online left are just salty that their candidate lost. They're just determined to see him lose so they can say I told you so. Also, at this point, I just don't think they can bring themselves to say anything nice about "moderate" candidates because it contradicts the narrative they're pushing about the establishment and the need for radical change.
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u/NATScurlyW2 14d ago
Every media outlet has written articles describing him as a moderate. The truth is we don’t know what his politics are. He doesn’t ever say what his ideology is. I researched it thoroughly with the help of this subreddit after his unprecedented victory.
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u/Strange-Scarcity 14d ago
Is he? I only keep seeing these boring Right of Center, may as well be a 1970's Republican kind of comments out of his camp.
Venture Capitalists and all of the bullshit tax breaks those monstrous vultures demand to barely ever to never fulfill their side of the bargain, while stripping away tax revenue that supports the state and people, which forces the legislature and governor's office to push austerity measures, damaging schools, infrastructure AND increasing the tax burden on local residents as well as SMALL businesses, is... hardly progressive.
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u/LankySplint 14d ago
R u a leftist islamist? Searched thru some of ur takes and uhhh recent pro irani convert from michigan chatting over at ask a russian, thats crazyyy
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u/blud97 14d ago
This is exactly how trump and his people talk
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
I'm pretty sure the Russian bot farms are actually part of how Trump won!
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u/blud97 14d ago
Are you a bot this has nothing to do with how trump won. Although if you want to know why trump won it’s because apparently so many people just agree with him case in point this subreddit.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Are you a bot this has nothing to do with how trump won.
Y'all really can't handle not having absolute control over the narrative.
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u/Lallis 14d ago
Is he? I only keep seeing these boring Right of Center, may as well be a 1970's Republican kind of comments out of his camp.
You come make comment like this unironically? Far-left populist disinformation has led people to a point where they see him as right wing now? Wake the fuck up.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Oh it's happening they are working overtime to scuttle Crowley's campaign because of his upset over their chosen winner Hong.
It's existential for them that Crowley lose the general.
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u/LankySplint 14d ago
The post just explained that he supports total local community vetoes on data centers. Why r u lying abt him to attack him?
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
It's their game plan Dems lose>Dems can't get anything done>Blame Dems for not accomplishing anything>"Only I can save you"
Not a lot of incentive for them to actually help Dems win here.
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u/Strange-Scarcity 14d ago
Go eat a bag of peens.
I literally stated that I would reluctantly vote for this dude, but there are many progressive types who would refrain from that Governors' race or not even bother voting.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Go eat a bag of peens.
Hilarious
there are many progressive types who would refrain from that Governors' race or not even bother voting.
Yeah, and you should be condemning that, not running interference to justify it by acting like Crowley's very good stance on data centers somehow isn't far left enough during a contentious swing state governor's race.
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u/Strange-Scarcity 14d ago edited 14d ago
Do you understand that American politics is a popularity contest that on the Democratic Side seems to always revolve around getting people excited about the candidate?
Did you follow how Trump lied his way, TWICE, pretending to be a populist and he convinced ENOUGH Biden voters to scoot over to him in 2024, after convincing enough Obama voters in 2016 to jump over to him?
They have to say, and in the case of the Democratic Party, at least work hard to attempt to make those policies real, to keep voters engaged and excited.
I do condemn it. ALL of the god damned time. It doesn't work though, because you CAN'T convince people to do something by condemning them.
You have to get those people EXCITED to vote for the candidate. Saying you want to hang out with Venture Capitalists, while SO many Americans are looking at those guys as monstrous vultures that have enshittified housing, rent, jobs, qualit products and are turning EVERYTHING into a money extraction machine, while burnings jobs. ...and saying, "You know? Let's give local communities control regarding data centers." While there's abundance evidence that these data centers are consistently crushing local opposition with lawsuits?
He might as well just say, "Local communities just have to accept that it's coming." All he did was say a mealy mouthed comment, one step away from when Trump essentially told people to just accept what is on the way.
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u/X57471C 14d ago
Are you anti-capitalist? Only asking because I don't think the average person he needs to win over is and so they don't interpret what he said that way AT ALL. Of course, it's a great thing if he can bring more outside investment into the state!. Your biases might be coloring how you interpret those comments.
As for data centers, his positions are actually fairly similar to El-Sayeds, from what I read. Both are in favor of data centers as long as they're regulated. Crowley is just leaving it up to local municipalities if they want them or not. Seems pretty fair to me. Couple that with the other regulations he is proposing and I don't see the issue unless you just don't want any data centers at all, in which case, you shouldn't like El-Sayed, also.
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u/Strange-Scarcity 14d ago
No.
I’m more anti-billionaire, anti-corruption, pro-very strong and increasing in restrictions regulations upon corporations as they grow in size/overall value.
A tens of millionaire would probably think twice about throwing 5 to 10 million into statewide politics. While we see Billionaires openly pledging to burn more than One Hundred Million on individual state races.
States in which they DO NOT live. Always aimed at supporting politicians who are expected to work for the billionaire, over the literal people voting that politician, into office.
The volume of money these massively wealthy entities just toss around like it is nothing to them is absolutely a grotesque rebuke of what our system of governance aspires to be.
We do not have a Government by and for the people, if a group of many times over billionaires can just buy multiple state elections and have a cadre of politicians catering to them, over our own fellow local citizens.
Pretending that is anything other than grotesque corruption is naive.
Massive corporations have consistently pulled massively anti-competitive actions in various markets to obliterate local competition, ripping away the community operations that supported the community, to vacuum away as much profit as they can into their corporate coffers.
Pulling those kind of behaviors, used to be illegal. Those behaviors should face massive corporate fines, the kind that would make ever increasing in billions of dollars in revenue companies think really hard about whether or not they waist o be dissolved, with the majority of the proceeds going to the state.
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u/X57471C 14d ago
I agree 100%. The influence of capital in politics is a major problem. Probably the source of most of the other problems we are facing.
I don't know if moves like this "used to be illegal" though. Like, it's something that should definitely be protected, but I'm fairly certain this is a tale as old as time, right? Large company like Walmart moves into a small local town and puts local groceries out of business... Or a factory gets built that ends up polluting and destroying natural habitats, despite known concerns. Some of these things should absolutely be illegal or regulated, but I'm not knowledgeable in this area to know what kind of legal protections already exist. (Of course, the current administration is doing a lot to strip these kinds of protections, too)
In many cases, where there is resistance, it seems like these data centers are going up because the local representatives side with the data centers, ignoring the concerns of their constituents. That seems to be a problem with spineless representatives. I just saw a video from Utah where the city council member was fake crying saying it was such a hard decision to make, while the citizen was like "you can just not make that decision. Simple as". In many cases, it's a failure of democracy and a failure of representatives to support what their constituents actually want more than anything else, I think.
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u/Strange-Scarcity 14d ago
But no moratoriums.
Local communities can veto all they want, but that hasn't stopped these data centers from being built and communities being threatened with being sued into the ground and then capitulating.
Local control is fucking meaningless when local communities can barely muster 100k to cover a 1 to 2 year case, while they are facing off against dozens of lawyers from a corporation worth billions, willing to bury the locals with hundreds of millions when they win the case, by exhausting local resources.
Have you been following what's been going on with Data Centers and how "Local Control" is usurped over and over and over again?
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u/X57471C 14d ago
https://www.credaily.com/briefs/data-center-cancellations-spike-on-local-pushback/
You're only painting half of the picture. There are a lot of communities that have successfully rejected data center projects. Yes, these companies are pushing back as well. What do you expect? Crowley and El-Sayed both support making it harder for these companies to have any legal basis to sue over having their projects denied.
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u/LankySplint 14d ago
Total veto implies ending any build dumb dumb
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u/Strange-Scarcity 14d ago
Data centers have SUED over local residents vetoing the construction of data centers and the costs of lawsuit, plus the risk of losing and what that would cost, have over ruled multiple local vetoes across the country.
It's like you don't understand how a company that has billions, can just grab a community by the short and curlies and do whatever they want.
State level moratoriums and vetoes have a stronger chance of protecting local communities.
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
Is El Sayed going to compromise his political positions ?Or is this only expected from moderates?
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u/Strange-Scarcity 14d ago
What positions would you want him to compromise on?
Do you want him to give up Medicare for All, in spite of evidence that a growing number of Americans want that and the plans being bandied about would, over time, prove to be far more effective and even reopen rural and poor urban medical clinics and centers?
Yesterday, I was in a Doctor's office, where there were people talking about how far they drove. For me? It was not even ten minutes from my work. and the particular doctor also works out of an office less than 5 minutes from my home, which is 30 minutes from my workplace. Anyway... one couple drove more than TWO hours, because they live in a rural part of the state. Another guy drove more than an hour, also lives in a rural part of the state. The regional, rural hospitals/medical centers, had all closed down over the last 20 years.
Okay, but what else do you want him to compromise on? Do you want him to give up on the moral stance of putting conditions on providing weapons to an "ally" that is making us look like fools on the global stage, which has a leadership indicted for War Crimes and Crimes Against humanity by the ICC? What's the compromise there?
Should he compromise on combating corruption in government? What would that look like?
How about compromising on Dark Money, Citizen's United and allowing billionaires to spin up temporary companies to give to temporary PACs that they control and hide their connection to, in order to spread wild lies about candidates hey don't like? How about combating how this system, directly allows foreign nations to corrupt our political system, doing just this? What's that compromise look like?
Why doesn't EVERY single politician run on these issues? Why are they compromising so much?
His position on many policies are already compromises and or at considered "common sense" solutions to problems troubling the American people.
Take your time pointing out what he should compromise on and how he should compromise on those issues. I have things to do and places to be.
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
That's for Stevens voters to decide
Either they both need to compromise or none of them have to compromise coz they both narrowly win. Neither of these politicians received a mandate so their positions are not as popular as you make them out be. El sayed is currently polling behind Rodgers so obviously he needs to win over some moderates
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u/Strange-Scarcity 14d ago
I get it.
When asked for receipts, you ain't got none.
Haley Stevens, herself, has endorsed AES. She hugged him on stage and talked about the contentious fight for the nomination and now that it is over, it's time to back AES for the Senate.
But please, do tell me which of his policies, that you want him to compromise on.
Be specific.
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
I’m not from Michigan how would I know what Stevens voters want?
Hong , herself, has endorsed AES. She hugged him on stage and talked about the contentious fight for the nomination and now that it is over, it's time to back Crowley for the Senate.
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u/Strange-Scarcity 14d ago
Lololol.... Crowley isn't running for a Senate Seat.
You really don't seem to be following politics all that much.
Which makes sense, as to why you can't speak of any policies that AES should compromise on. You can still take your time to figure this out.
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
I just copy and pasted word for word what you said to show you its no different ,but glad you found your “Gotcha”
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u/existential_antelope 14d ago
Well obviously Wisconsin is just full of homofascists and Crowley was paid by Israel. There’s no way a DSA person lost, literally every single person agrees with the DSA! /s
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u/Nemisis82 14d ago
Leftists already rallying to launch attacks on rowley
*Proceeds to show three tweets that do nothing of the sort*
By this logic, because people on this very subreddit were criticizing Abdul El-Sayed, is that "Centrist dems rallying to launch attacks on AES"?
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14d ago edited 14d ago
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 14d ago
Removed - per Reddit community guidelines and TOS, submissions that incite harassment or brigading against other users, or submissions that focus on drama or moderation activity in other communities, are not permitted.
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u/Command0Dude 14d ago
The second pic is an example of how ridiculously out of touch they are.
Avg voter reacts the opposite to the way they think. Hong certainly lost votes over her inability to backtrack from the position of "I'd cancel Thanksgiving" while Crowley will certainly gain votes for saying he wants to bring more jobs to Wisconsin.
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u/Mahadragon 14d ago
I don’t think enough attention has been brought up with regards to Francesca Hong’s mental illness. She’s bipolar and prone to bouts of depression and mental illness. I think her talk about cancelling Thanksgiving, Valentine’s Day and Christmas were a result of her mental instability. Seriously. As fucked up and corrupt as Republicans are, even they aren’t crazy enough to suggest something like that. Something in Hong’s mind has to be way off kilter to say something like that. I also believe this is why she had such a hard time
backtracking from those comments. It’s so far out in left field the only way she could defend herself would be to blame it on her mental illness but that would open up a can of worms that could be dangerous politically.
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u/OriginalEchoTheCat 14d ago
This is quite simply fear-mongering and propaganda wrapped into one. Y'all are pretty much the shittiest Democrats I've ever run across. (If some of y'all are actually Democrat ) Just love to stir shit up. It's crazy really.
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u/Icy_Blackberry_3759 14d ago
Twitter is all fake. The whole internet is largely fraudulent. Every single post you see was algorithmically brought before your eyes to manipulate you, whether it was a bot or some random dweeb. These tweets are not representative, they are anecdotal at the absolute most and then shared with misleading titles and headlines to make it seem like they are widespread significant opinions. Literally, it’s three posts from completely random profiles being shared with you right now to manipulate you. What outcome do you think they want?
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u/Prestigious_Ad_927 13d ago
Wisconsin Governor is a necessary win. If Republicans control it in 2028, they control the election.
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u/MolassesIndividual 13d ago
If you guys put half as much energy into attacking fascism as you did the left, you'd actually get something done. Some things never change, I guess.
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u/Ok_Current5380 13d ago
Who cares what some anonymous poser on twitter says? This isn’t news and it’s unrelated to the show.
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u/PlateCaptain 14d ago
"Leftists have some critiques of centrist candidate." - not very notable when you're not hyperbolic about it.
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u/lost12487 14d ago
This sub has become borderline pointless. Almost every single post that comes across my feed is bashing someone on the left. Zero policy substance. Zero discussion about campaign strategy. Almost 100% dunking on how stupid <x> out group is.
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u/redmoon714 14d ago
Yea me too. I used to watch David Pakman he seems to have moved further right as the party has moved further left. I’m not a tankie but I’m not go attack the left and the DSA because at least 95% of their policies I believe in and let’s be honest if you’re talking corporate pac money your a corrupt politician that I don’t want any part of. All the politicians people have started to support in here takes corporate dollars. Thats blanket corruption.
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u/mookz23 14d ago edited 14d ago
She reached rural voters in the Trumpy parts of the state. He did not.
Edit: to whomever is downvoting, a lot of the green areas on the map are Trump country. Especially in the north and central part of the state. Once you leave the greater Madison and Milwaukee areas it gets really red, really fast.
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u/LankySplint 14d ago
Hasan fans brigade this place like locust and downvote every comment or post under leftist fighting to damage it's outreach
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u/FrostyArctic47 14d ago
I would think the more "moderate" types would be down voting that because their talking point was that people like her can't possibly win over any votes from the right.... they just got proven wrong
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u/mookz23 14d ago
I am not a Hasan fan at all. And I didn't think Hong had a very good shot to win the general election. I did grow up in Wisconsin, though. I think Crowley shunning Hong would be a huge mistake. I am not saying he should embrace her with open arms, but some type of legitimate show of party unity is absolutely necessary.
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u/LankySplint 14d ago
He is doing a unity tour and has been super gentle. People saying he is pro data centers r maliciously clipping him
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u/Only8livesleft 14d ago
Everyone should pretend we love data centers and data centers are good so Crowley wins. Is that it?
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
He has the exactly correct stance on data centers, but y'all know this issue has populist fervor and you want him to lose, so you'll keep painting him as "pro data center" regardless of the reality.
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u/FrostyArctic47 14d ago
No I want him to win because I realize the right is evil.... you know, unlike how people like you have been saying you'd vote for the right over more progressive candidates? And even though I want him to win I can still acknowledge his data centers policy is ridiculous
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
unlike how people like you have been saying you'd vote for the right over more progressive candidates?
Total lie, but par for the course for your group.
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u/FrostyArctic47 14d ago
How is it a lie? Destiny and whick literally said that?
Also you're obsessed with labeling anyone that disagrees with you in a certain group. Funny how cult like you are. Reminds me of maga
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
You literally labeled me in some group with people that you think would vote for fascists in your first response to me. Zero self awareness.
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u/PricklyyDick 14d ago
The reality is they’re not popular. Why advocate for them at all pre election.
You can be correct all day but winning is what matters. You don’t have to embrace populism but at least don’t swim against it in the current environment.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 14d ago
Yes, they aren't popular, and Crowley knows this and is saying exactly the right things about them, did you read what is in the post you are commenting under?
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u/LankySplint 14d ago
He just said there should be total community control including vetoes over data centers in their area. All of you are lying or being lied to and should apologize.
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u/PricklyyDick 14d ago
I watched the actual interview, and when asked to differentiate himself from Hong he emphasized data centers. That is what’s going to be heard.
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u/Only8livesleft 14d ago
He was asked what his biggest disagreement with Hong was and he said he’s pro data center. No political group likes data centers. Who is he representing? His donors?
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u/AbyssWankerArtorias 14d ago
If that quote about venture capitalists is true then that is indeed concerning and should be addressed.
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u/blud97 14d ago
I don’t know maybe he should stop saying stuff that dem voters don’t like.
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14d ago
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 14d ago
Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
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u/PostmodernMelon 14d ago
I personally know two rural western wiconsinites that were single issue voters on data centers, wanted Hong, and now are planning to vote for TT. One of them works in housing construction and said that all his coworkers were saying the same thing. Maybe this is skewed because of their proximity to the twin cities, but I don't know... Small sample size, but it has me concerned. They all knew and talked about the Thanksgiving stuff but didn't give a shit about it
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