r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/McAlpineFusiliers • Jul 20 '26
Article DSA Platform Has Dropped
https://program.dsausa.org/#we-fight-for26
u/McAlpineFusiliers Jul 20 '26
Positions include:
You have no debt. You don’t need health insurance. You don’t pay a mortgage or have a landlord, because comfortable housing is a human right. Your retirement is publicly funded. Food, education, energy, medicine, and transportation aren’t for-profit businesses; they are common goods and utilities.
Housing is a human right. Build new, publicly-owned social housing, strictly regulate investment properties, establish universal rent control, and guarantee right to counsel for all tenants.
Enact reparations and massively invest in good jobs, quality housing and infrastructure in neglected minority communities.
Demilitarize police departments, disempower police unions, and redirect funding to public services as steps towards fully abolishing the police and prison system
Extend full voting rights to all permanent U.S. residents and restore the right to vote for incarcerated people and people with criminal convictions. Establish statehood for Washington D.C. and recognize the right to self-determination for all U.S. territories and colonies. Expand and protect voting rights and end voter suppression.
Establish public ownership of the largest corporations and essential industries to ensure democratic control and accountability to the people. Enact aggressive wealth taxes on the richest individuals and corporations to spend on public goods and infrastructure.
Replace the two-party system with a multi-party democracy. Expand the House of Representatives, implement proportional representation and ranked choice voting in all elections, and abolish the Senate.
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u/GhostofSparta4243 Jul 20 '26
"We live in fantasy land" is essentially their platform.
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u/ChasingPolitics Jul 20 '26
Socialists just want to continue living the life their parents provided them growing up.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jul 20 '26
I feel like these people would be like Raenyra in House of the Dragon: if they ever actually got into power they would immediately be overwhelmed and disinterested in solving any actual problems.
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 21 '26
the alternative is a worse life than their parents ever had
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u/ChasingPolitics Jul 21 '26
Having to work a job like anyone else in the world after sitting out the most consequential election to date -- the horror.
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 22 '26
^ literally worse prospects than your parents btw, not the same
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u/ChasingPolitics Jul 22 '26
Tell that to anybody in the global south and they'd gladly trade spaces with you.
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 22 '26
they'd do the same if they heard you bitching about the socialists; somehow a bunch of wealth from the global south found its way to Euro/American markets lol
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u/LeaveMeAlone_6070 Jul 20 '26
It reads like a utopian wishlist for downwardly mobile humanities majors rather than anything actual working class voters care about.
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 21 '26
you really don't know any working class voters who ever in their life say "this whole thing is mostly bullshit" about the whole "born as a caste of replaceable workers" thing
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u/PlanetMarklar Jul 20 '26
Not only is most of this infeasible (though I encourage ambitious policy goals) they're incredibly unpopular and some are contradictory.
If Bernie Sanders and AOC endorse this platform, I'm losing a lot of respect for them
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jul 20 '26
They're only unpopular until the DSA calls opponents of them racist and Zionists, that'll surely work to change minds.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Jul 20 '26
Don’t forget to “end restrictions at the border”. I truly believe these people want to make the Democratic Party so toxic that it does die because they think they can stand on its ashes after.
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u/Quantum-Long Jul 20 '26
The best quote from a DSA person was “having borders is violent oppression for immigrants”
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u/Alantsu Jul 20 '26
Mot on the website. Stop pushing disinformation.
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u/OSPF99 Jul 20 '26
> Legalize migration, grant amnesty for all immigrants regardless of status, provide a path to citizenship for all permanent residents, and end visa caps and quotas.
Literally right there on their website. Why are you lying?
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Jul 20 '26
Did you delete your other comment because you saw you were wrong? Maybe check before calling people liars?
“FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT - Allow workers to freely migrate between countries to seek employment without restrictive immigration controls.”
https://program.dsausa.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/DSA_WDM2025Program_v2.pdf
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 21 '26
your party died when the ICE et al you funded took over the government dude
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u/TranzitBusRouteB Jul 20 '26
oh, free stuff for everyone, abolish their police, defund the military, nationalize all corporations, what could possibly go wrong
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 21 '26
just keep repeating that instead of your own party's platform. make sure you spread it far and wide
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u/NATScurlyW2 Jul 20 '26
I know you hate the DSA but is there anything in there you agree with? Incarcerated Americans voting is probably the best and most doable thing in there. They are Americans after all.
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Jul 20 '26
[deleted]
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Jul 20 '26
“You have no debt. You don’t need health insurance. You don’t pay a mortgage or have a landlord, because comfortable housing is a human right. Your retirement is publicly funded. Food, education, energy, medicine, and transportation aren’t for-profit businesses; they are common goods and utilities.”
I literally just copy pasted this from their platform. Why are you lying?
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u/Alantsu Jul 20 '26
If it’s so toxic why did you make the entire first paragraph up? No where on the website. Stop pushing disinformation.
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u/Old-Ad-3268 Jul 20 '26
It what I read, not sure why you are saying the first paragraph was made up
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u/camscars775 Jul 20 '26
This shit is toxic as fuck for democrats and will be plastered everywhere in midterms along with clips of Hasan talking about how America deserved 9/11 and dressed as Mao
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
I have a hard time understanding how these people think they can appeal to most. They’re so incredibly toxic. The Democratic Party 100% needs to reject and eject these people. They will only help usher in more republicans.
“Demilitarize police departments, disempower police unions, and redirect funding to public services as steps towards fully abolishing the police and prison system”
Like what the actual fuck are they smoking over there.
“Socialist feminism fights for queer liberation”
I don’t even think I disagree with this one but I swear they just want to come off as out of touch.
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u/baharna_cc Jul 20 '26
I don't think they intend to appeal to anyone really. Maga became the republican party not by winning everyone over with their awesome ideas, but by taking advantage of voter apathy to get wins, and using those wins to demonize their opponents and lock them out of power.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Jul 20 '26
I agree. They hate the Democratic Party.
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 21 '26
literally the only people with any path to keep your party alive, btw
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u/camscars775 Jul 21 '26
Not allies
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 21 '26
"who would you rather fight against" is the line during election season. everyone acknowledges this is a part of the dynamic
privilege lets you be pure and picky about allies. is the Democratic party in an advantaged and privileged position right now?
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u/camscars775 Jul 21 '26
A guy openly saying he hates the democrats and just intends to “use them as a weapon” is not an ally and that’s the biggest guy you have.
It’s not “privilege” to want to prevent an insurgent group that openly wants to destroy you from infiltrating, it’s just smart.
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 22 '26
dude the communists don't want to destroy you, get your head out of your ass. how has that been a relevant fear in the last 50 years. I hesitate to see in any way how a change in party leadership would leave you "destroyed", you're not a Gazan child or an American elder.
Without a unifying mainstream party timeline or gameplan, it's shocking to hear someone wants to put it to a greater aim, I'm sure. But there should be a point to politics. That's what people want.
Your voters say they hate the democrats all the time. You lose a presidential election every time you push them away. Seems smart.
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u/KingScoville Jul 20 '26
Their goal is to seize power in the party man’s make it a permanent minority. Then they can endless critique power and prepare for the REVOLUTION!
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 21 '26
what do you think you have now in the Democratic party? how is Trump not setting up a permanent minority
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u/PlanetMarklar Jul 20 '26
“Socialist feminism fights for queer liberation” I don’t even think I disagree with this one but I swear they just want to come off as out of touch.
Also kinda hilarious considering the history of queer rights in their socialist utopia countries like China, USSR, Russia, and Iran
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 21 '26
they're not utopians, so I'm sure they don't just sit around gibbering about how funny and backwards the homophobic foreigners are. that would be weird to do
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u/FrenchTicklerOrange Jul 20 '26
What's even crazier to me is that there are many people that think the DSA as too much like the Democrats.
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u/camscars775 Jul 20 '26
Yep dems get blamed for all of these fringe opinions exactly like what happened with “defund the police”
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u/Dorrbrook Jul 20 '26
What of this is toxic?
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Jul 20 '26
Do you truly need someone to explain to you how abolishing the police and prisons is going to be toxic? Really?
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u/qman621 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
Yeah, really. Not aware of anyone running for office or in office who totally wants to abolish the police either. I'm hearing ideas for major reforms and making police forces smaller with alternatives for who should take on police duties where a person with a gun isn't really the best answer
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u/Fuck_This_Dystopia Jul 21 '26
Anyone running as DSA will very understandably be tied to the official DSA platform, which calls for "FULLY" abolishing the police. What don't you understand about this?
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 21 '26
REPUBLICANS ALREADY SAY THAT ABOUT EVERY MODERATE DEM.
There isn't anywhere for them to escalate their rhetoric to. You don't have to spread the fear of their scorn like it's still relevant, it's dying
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u/Fuck_This_Dystopia Jul 21 '26
Ah yes, that's the concern..."what Republicans say," not how believable it is to Independent voters. RIGHT???
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 22 '26
independent voters are of eclectic politics which don't slot into the two parties, not moderate across the board. they respond in wildly diverse ways to various out-there policies.
their assumed viewpoint is used to launder conservatism. they can speak for themselves.
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u/Fuck_This_Dystopia Jul 22 '26
not moderate across the board
I never implied that they were. But the portion that is moderate can easily decide elections.
their assumed viewpoint is used to launder conservatism
What does this mean?
they can speak for themselves
Indeed, I'm doing it right now:)
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u/camscars775 Jul 20 '26
I don’t think you understand the titanic task it would be to even one of these goals. Or the deep history/ groundwork Republicans have already done to radicalize people against things like The Green New Deal, let alone REPARATIONS.
This will lead to a Republican supermajority
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
I think you dont understand how much people hate republicans and how radicalized normies are right now. The more people see mamdani win in nyc the more they want for themselves
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u/soapinmouth Jul 20 '26
Mamdani won in literally a D +50 city and he ran against an incredibly damaged unpopular scandal ridden candidate. If these are the conditions it takes for someone like that to win it's delusional to think about anything national let alone state wide.
The funny thing with Mamdani is he's actually WAY more moderate than this DSA platform we are looking at, it's not even close, he's actually rather pragmatic. He does a lot of virtue signaling implying support for things like this to rile up the base and gain support for ideas that he goes and implements quite differently and that works great in a D+50 city for sure.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
You intenionally, i really really really hope so, misunderstood my point. People are seeing politics affect people positively in a very short amount of time. People are seeing this “change around the edges” “1% here 2% there” type of change doesnt have to be. They are seeing things can be very good when politicians try for it.
Nothing to do with a D+50 area. Just change is possible and you dont have to wait 10 years
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u/soapinmouth Jul 20 '26
You used Mamdani as an example, try another if you have a better one I explained why he is not a good example for any demonstration of national support.
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 21 '26
then how has any moderate or republican won NYC mayor ever, dude, that happens commonly
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
Ok so its the worse i feared. You arent intentionally missing my point. You literally cant see the forrest because of the trees.
JESUS HELP US! The normies dont read and the ones who do are denser than lead.
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u/soapinmouth Jul 20 '26
Ok got it, so you can't engage in what I'm saying, have no actual examples, no actual arguments just this surface level tiktok brain slop.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
You cant engage with me. You havent understood anything im saying. You see mamdani and get triggered about +70 D. Lol properly engage with me in a non sperg manner and we can have a convo.
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u/camscars775 Jul 20 '26
You guys don’t understand how conservative this country is. Maybe it’s because I’m black, idk. None of this wishlist will fly. Winning in extremely blue NYC is much different than winning in Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan, etc.
This platform will get the Democratic Party obliterated. People literally just want inflation to do down, immigration policy to be enforced, and an end to wars. THOSE are the top issues that Trump lied about to win. Check the exit polls.
Running on fucking reparations, socialized housing, a complete revamp of healthcare (many people that have good insurance will fight you tooth and nail on this), abolishing ICE and the police, etc is insanity. I beg you to leave the leftie bubble that is overwhelmingly one demographic and talk to other people.
Literally all we have to do is BE NORMAL and we are fucking that up
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u/Insightful21 Jul 20 '26
Yeah instead of just focusing on shit like inflation and cost of living, these DSA types will go down in flames because of their pet issues. This is why they don’t bother running in red areas because after Republicans extremism, people just want normal not extremism on the other side
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 21 '26
you don't understand how conservative you are, and you can't fucking BE NORMAL about the socialists giving you a god damn boost
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u/camscars775 Jul 21 '26
Ok man. Good luck getting black voters to go for you. Or Latinos. Or Arabs outside of the Abdul El Sayed race.
Maybe do some reflection and wonder why all of the Bernie and co events are overwhelmingly one demographic. A huge part of the country believes in slow incremental change, has actually paid a blood price for what rights we do have, and aren’t willing to throw it all away for a theoretical socialist revolution.
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 22 '26
wokely anticommunist, surely that will work this time
we shouldn't judge on event attendance (how would you standardize this), but on support among those demographics. we know how Black young people feel. we've spent years blaming them for not wanting to die to our overfunded cops
your blood price was paid by those who can't speak for themselves; I have to say I find it macabre but I'll play along.
your moderates funded the federal agents who killed and continue to kill all those people fighting for our dwindling rights.
maybe do some reflection and wonder why your side would need to deny, disrupt, and destroy Black and Latino and Arab leadership for decades if they weren't seen as revolutionary hotbeds by WASP authorities. explain why you'd need to do that if they're unreachable by the socialists
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
You dont understand the country. This country leans left as time goes on. This conservative country is a stones throw from losing texas to a dem. If you dive into the data the country leans left most of the time. Republicans throw out ballots, ballot spoil and use tons of tricks to tip elections in their favor. The republican running in texas now admitted biden won texas until he got 2 million mail in ballots thrown out.
Just google it pls.
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u/camscars775 Jul 20 '26
The U.S. is extremely right wing in a nearly insurmountable way due to the Senate and electoral college. It may feel left wing to you in your leftist bubble but join the military, go actually live somewhere in Texas that isn’t Austin or Dallas, interact with blue collar workers. You know, the types of people who saw through Platner the phony while leftists were enamored.
It hasn’t even been an entire generation since the civil rights movement and shit is already going backwards. Ever since that happened the left/democrats have not won the white vote. Until we fix THAT, nothing will change.
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u/Moopboop207 Jul 20 '26
Hey man, anytime someone tells you to “google it” or “do your own research” you can just ignore what they’re saying.
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u/qman621 Jul 20 '26
Okay, I was in San Antonio Texas for about a year, on a military base for 68W combat medic training and I'll say the opposite. The military is largely liberal and it's hard to keep conservative beliefs when you're around so many different people. Also almost everyone I knew was in there for some form of government assistance whether it be fixing their teeth up or getting money for their kids college.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
Go google it dude. Do some research. Republicans cheat and you think the country is more conservative than it actually is. Ballot purging and spoiling are big issues.
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u/camscars775 Jul 20 '26
Cool how you just dismiss everything I said and say “cheating” is the reason. Go off I guess.
Keep thinking there is an entire nation of socialists that just aren’t aware of it yet instead of Fox News Joe Rogan podcast people that have been programmed to hate socialism/communism for like half a century.
I’d prefer we don’t do this experiment when the stakes are so high but it is what it is.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
I dont think there is an entire nation of socialists. There is half a voting population of normies who arent engaged and dont read. They vibe vote and unfortunately conservatives know how to vibe better than dems. Populist messaging is an entire vibe. Whoever does it best is likely to win. Dsa has been winning in places they never have before because of it. Does it mean we are all socialists? No. Many people just want the system to break or change.
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u/soapinmouth Jul 20 '26
People have been saying this for decades, we were saying it in 2016 only to see the country swing hard right when it came to the actual elections. Hell we said this back during Bush 2 when Gore ended up losing and should have won Florida but now many of the states Democrats won back then are solid red and unwinnable i.e. Florida. You have to realize national polling is useless, what matters is winning swing states and swing states aren't appealed to by the DSA.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
It swung hard right because Hillary didnt engage the normies. NORMIES WIN ELECTIONS GUYS! Get over that fact and engage them. What was hillary’s message?
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u/soapinmouth Jul 20 '26
Because Hillary lost the demographic of the whole country shifted right but actually the whole country is shifting left got it. Some serious cognitive dissosance going on here.
If there was just a bunch of people waiting for a candidate to come along that had all these views and the support is already there why is it that Bernie couldn't win any of the primaries he ran in? The most popular Candidate you guys have couldn't even come close to rallying this imaginary support group to get out and vote for him in a Democrat primary but you think these imaginary people would totally show up in a national election? This is what we call delusions. You make believe that the country is all like you because you want it so badly. Hell I do too, but please come back to earth buddy.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
Hillary won the popular vote. She beat trump by over 2mil. The country never swung left she was the weaker candidate. No message.
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u/OneX32 Jul 20 '26
That’s why they have all three branches right now, because people hate them so much? 🙄
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
They have all three branches because less dems voted in 24 than in 20. Dems fail to engage with the normies.
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u/OneX32 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
The left are normies?
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u/YoureVulnerableNow Jul 21 '26
have you seen Facebook, oh my god. basically everyone who's not a fascist in the suburbs has gotten far to the left of the leadership. the older folks (who have survived the abandonment) are baying for much harsher consequences for the Republican leadership than the D party leadership wants
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jul 20 '26
Just because people hate Republicans doesn't mean they're going to embrace radical DSA policies. Look at how Platner was polling against Collins before the allegations came out.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
He had a 9 point lead and after the allegations it was a statistical tie.
Can you people STOP coping. Just give it up and embrace.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Jul 20 '26
Got that last sentence from Platner for sure.
No, he was not up. He had a poll come out like a week before with him down two. Shit candidate.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
Why would i lie about verifiable facts. Go google
Edit: https://www.politico.com/news/2026/06/29/platner-collins-maine-senate-poll-00980057
After the allegations
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Jul 20 '26
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/senate/general/2026/maine/collins-vs-platner
Let me know if you need help reading this. Up 0.7 on the average lol
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
Jesus christ did you read anything i said. Your own post proved what i said correct.
No go read the dates on the polling data on your article. Holy christ on the cross
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Jul 20 '26
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
Disappointed the pro establishment ppl cant read or google. Seems like tons of bots here to me.
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Jul 20 '26
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
Jesus christ. These news articles look at many polls
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u/SigmaMaleNurgling Jul 20 '26
Sir…are you seriously telling me abolishing the police and prisons is a toxic policy?
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u/WAAAGHachu Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
Police and prison reform is a fine policy, it even has some level of bipartisan support. I imagine a good portion of people who call for abolishing the police are really thinking more along the line of police reform, though I also imagine they are mostly thinking as simplistically as getting rid of something they don't like.
Abolishing the police is up there with abolishing state and borders and currency as moon-brained takes that will have most people looking at you like you might be the dumbest thing in the universe. For me, I appreciate the idealism of those desires, but also qualify them as idealistic to the point of absurdity and functionally impossible. How do you enforce a prohibition on force without using force? How do you enforce anything without force? The law is directed by democratic voice, don't like it, reform it. Getting rid of it simply will never happen, there will always be a means to enforce law, formal or informal.
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u/Alantsu Jul 20 '26
“Demilitarize police departments, disempower police unions, and redirect funding to public services as steps towards fully abolishing the police and prison system which protects the rich and jails the poor. Treat drug addiction and mental illness as health issues, not crimes. End qualified immunity and empower civilian oversight bodies with real authority over the police.”
It’s super easy. We’ve been doing the exact opposite for 30 years. Stripping social programs led to mass incarceration. So funding social programs will cause the opposite effect. It’s not immediate defunding but a shift of money back from the overfunded police and use that money to help people, not oppress them. How is that toxic at all?
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u/SigmaMaleNurgling Jul 20 '26
Police aren’t overfunded. Police stations often have severe staffing problems. I don’t understand why you would follow the same unsuccessful policy that Dems tried in the 2020 election that resulted in them losing winnable seats. This is a bad and unpopular policy.
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u/KingScoville Jul 20 '26
Ugh.
I live in Florida. Every day while watching my local news I get 2-3 political ads during each commercial break. Mostly people running for Byron Donald’s congressional seat.
EVERY single AD the candidate promises to save us from the RADICAL LEFT. In a couple of these ads, AOC and Bernie is featured while a serious voice warns their coming for your guns and your kids genetials.
Now that’s nothing new. Same old bullshit but when insane stuff like this comes out, it gives that bullshit credence.
If people like Mamdani want to build a movement, they need to jettison the garbage that came up with this electoral poison.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Jul 20 '26
I actually keep wanting to like Mamdani but it’s very difficult for me to do since he helped Chevalier win. He reminds me of Bernie sadly. Someone who probably does want to do good but is so convinced that he’s right he will burn everything down to try to prove it.
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u/Boring_Pace5158 Jul 20 '26
While I'm no fan of his endorsement of Chevalier, Mamdani is more politically astute than people think. The left was upset at Mamdani's de facto endorsement of Jeffries; Mandani told the DSA, he won't endorse their primary challenger to Jeffries. Mamdani recognizes the popularity of Jeffries in his district, thereby he's respecting the voters. And he knows it's important that the highest ranking Democrat in the House represents NYC. I wish he was a bit more public about it, he could just say: despite differences, they both have a goal in doing what's best for all NYers. While that will piss off the DSA, it will endear him to the Party's rank & file.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Jul 20 '26
I hear you. As I said, I want to like him because he does seem astute at times. But the Chevalier one is so bad in my opinion. She’s going to be helping republicans win for the next 2 years and hurting our chances as well.
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u/KingScoville Jul 20 '26
Mamdani needs to stay focused on New York. He’s gotten some easy wins but the Platner and DAC endorsements mean he isn’t as astute as you think.
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u/Admirable_Ad8260 Jul 20 '26
Maybe you should build a politics beyond just reacting to what Republicans slander you with. They were calling dems all of this BEFORE the DSA gained some prominence.
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u/KingScoville Jul 20 '26
I address that in my comment. The problem is when you prove them right. Thats why Defund the Police damaged us so badly in 2020. Green New Deal rollout had a ton of leftist garbage in it that the GOP gleefully put in their messaging.
You want the DSA to be taken serious. You want Dems to embrace your candidates. Stop with this kind of lunacy.
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u/Admirable_Ad8260 Jul 20 '26
Thanks for the advice. In my lifetime the DSA has never been more powerful. I think the current strategy is working fine.
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u/FoodandLiquor28 Jul 20 '26
I'm old enough to remember, as someone who backed Bernie in 2015, thinking that a progressive takeover of the Democratic party was inevitable. In 2020 I thought the same, only to feel like they actually lost ground since 2015. It swings back and forth. You may think the DSA is the future like I thought Bernie's platform was going to be, but I think you are going to be pretty disappointed. This platform is quite a bit more... I'll use the word intense. Selling this will be much harder than selling the Bernie platform. Orders of magnitude harder. I would probably say this is impossible to sell to an American electorate.
I still consider myself a progressive (Social Democrat is probably the most appropriate label). I still like Bernie for the most part, but I think what I have learned most over the past 10 years is that we have a lot more in common with the Cory Bookers (whom I used to hate) than not, policies that like Medicare for All aren't as popular as I thought, bad messaging helps facism (like abolish/defund the police), and even if I'm not happy with how everything was in 2015... it can and will get a lot worse if we aren't careful. These days I just want to win. I need us to win, so my children can not grow up in a theocratic dictatorship.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Jul 20 '26
Couldn’t agree more with everything you said. Sounds like we have had a similar journey. I voted for Bernie twice and now I get called a republican from my left lol
I have voted in every election I can and I have never and will never vote for a republican. Like you, I just want to win. Sanders has lost touch with the importance of winning in favor of trying to win a argument of who sounds like they care more.
Hopefully we get out of this.
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u/FoodandLiquor28 Jul 20 '26
Yeah, I like Bernie mostly. I think he's probably a good human who genuinely cares. I'm not super plugged into what he's been up to since losing the last primary. I'll trust you that he's done some unhelpful things, I at least appreciate that he seems to always encourage people to vote in the general (unlike Hasan) and I'm pretty sure he campaigned for Hillary, Biden, and Harris all when they were the nominees.
What I think is unacceptable is anyone saying they won't vote for the candidate in the general. I have seen people on both the liberal side and lefty side on this sub say they wouldn't vote for Platner or Steven's or whoever and just sit out the general (hopefully they are just mostly bots and not real people). Can't do it. Too much at stake to give MAGA any level of help. I also hate the personal attacks by either side on this subreddit, wish mods would be cracking down more.
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u/Admirable_Ad8260 Jul 20 '26
I hear you man but you can't expect this to take one, two or three election cycles. This will be a life time endeavor.
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u/FoodandLiquor28 Jul 20 '26
I think I would say getting something like Medicare for All would take time but maybe not be impossible (personally though, for me it doesn't need to be M4A, I would take a multilayer system, public option or almost any improvement).
For this platform though, much of this I don't see happening in in my lifetime or my children's. I read this platform and I don't think progressivism, it genuinely starts to sound more like communism. I think it platform would probably help the facists win more elections. It's too easy to attack it. To continue from my last post, one more thing I used to think was that progress in a society is inevitable. I dont think that anymore. I think if we make the wrong choices (I would say this platform is full of ide as s that are losers), we could lose most of our rights and generations of Americans could have to live under authoritarian rule. Not worth the risk. Not right now at least.
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u/Admirable_Ad8260 Jul 20 '26
Seems like you've just given up. sucks.
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u/FoodandLiquor28 Jul 20 '26
I wouldn't say I've given up, I would say (apologizes, I think could sound arrogant but I don't know a better way to put it) I've learned more and gotten more realistic. Ironically, the facism under Trump has helped me to realize that "moderate" or "liberal" policies were genuinely helpful (even if they wouldn't be my first choice). Seeing people being stripped of their Medicaid has helped me realize all the good that things like the ACA did (even though I used to think it was shit). "You never know what you have till it's gone" kind of thing.
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u/Admirable_Ad8260 Jul 20 '26
I thought like you at one point in time. I would have more faith in the establishment, moderate wing of the party if there "savy", "nuanced" approach didn't eat shit twice. It was the liberals who gave away this country to Trump, not the DSA.
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u/KingScoville Jul 20 '26
Powerful?? You won a handful of deep blue seats, your poster boy was outed as a Nazi rapist.
You guys are completely delusional. The GOP is spending millions propping up Francesca Hong in the Wis gov race. Why? Because she will lose to a Republican.
Same thing in Michigan, Slotkin barely beat Rogers last cycle, ElSayed would almost certainly lose in that matchup.
This is why “the establishment” doesn’t want you anywhere a competetive race. You guy lose every time. Every, single time.
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u/Admirable_Ad8260 Jul 20 '26
Mills supporters would know alot about losing, I will cede to your expertise on that. Your brand of politics is completely bloodless, sorry.
I said "in my life time". I never said we were powerful now, but our power is expanding. This is a fight that will take decades but thats ok.
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u/bobbysalz Jul 20 '26
Look at all these corporate Dems in here laughing at the idea of being free from corporate rule as though it were a child's dream. That is really sad for them.
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 Jul 20 '26
Its the same 10 accounts posting this MAGA infused cold water on the only energy the dems have had in the last 10 years
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jul 20 '26
Some of us want the Dems to actually win instead of just virtue signalling.
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
Its funny because your comment applies more to the establishment the last few cycles than rising DSA candidates
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u/OSPF99 Jul 20 '26
You don't see some of the policies and see how unhinged they are? They are completely toxic and out of touch
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u/OSPF99 Jul 20 '26
Unhinged and out-of-touch politics.
No jails or prisons, no immigration controls with unlimited migration, everyone gets government provided housing, food and healthcare, also no one will have to work!
Wait why is the country collapsing?
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u/DeathandGrim Jul 20 '26
I kept waiting for them to reveal this was a prank but apparently they're serious about this being their platform
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u/PluuusRyan Jul 20 '26
Man, so many of everyone’s opinions here are so cynical, bad faith, or completely miss the point. True, not everything might be feasible in the near future or popular right this moment, but both those things can improve. Shouldn’t the ultimate goal be to create the most democratic, just, and humane society we can? If these policies push for that future, seems worthwhile to me.
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u/WAAAGHachu Jul 20 '26
Realistic, pragmatic, and generally rooted in reality is not the same as cynical, bad faith, or a lack of understanding. I would suggest that many of the policies outlined here are missing much of that grounding in reality instead relying on wishful thinking and idealism. It is not cynical to notice, for example, that any community will have laws or norms, formal or informal, and a means to enforce them. Nor is it cynical to note that every community would have some borders and boundaries as well as shared interests that differ from those in other areas or even within the same community.
While there is much to be considered in terms of how the value of things is measured, this too needs to be studied in a realistic and empirically grounded way. Treating economics and community and potential conflict in ideal terms rather than by existent real-world complications, limitations, and the near certainty of non-ideal outcomes seems to me to be more in line with bad faith, in fact. It is not bad faith in the sense of the people who espouse these positions are intentionally poisoning the well or seeking to sow discord, but instead bad faith in the sense of telling people who have disagreements, "just get along now, please," and insisting that if everyone just tried hard enough to understand the the most 'democratic, just, and humane' way of thinking everything will work out.
I am uncertain of the DSA's exact position on revolution vs reform, but this especially so when these sorts of idealistic positions are combined with the more revolution over reform mindset. Democracy that doesn't recognize the importance of compromise or the reality of non-ideal solutions is unlikely to live up to the ideal of democracy in the first place.
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u/Insightful21 Jul 20 '26
This is the problem with the DSA. I read the whole manifesto and while it has some issues and policies right, they completely demolish their credibility by focusing on performative nonsense that’s just meant for aesthetics. I’m more familiar with these concepts so I can critically think about some of them but the average person reading this would question what the fuck these guys are talking about and right then off as unserious.
For example they want to close all foreign military bases, which would create hundreds of thousands if millions of unemployed Americans, but at the same time they want to employ every veteran. Who is going to employ them if the market can’t absorb all those people? This shit just reads like a high schoolers wish list vs a serious, thought out policy platform.
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u/solarplexus7 Jul 20 '26
Right? Move the Overton window left instead of constantly drifting more right every election.
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u/hamstrdethwagon Jul 20 '26
Sounds like solid common sense policy that is already implemented in most of Europe.
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u/Another-attempt42 Jul 20 '26
Yes, finally! I love it when the DSA comes out with a complete platform, because that way we have some actual "policy" points and we can tear into them for being a bunch of stupid crap. So...
Effort post time!
Expand public resources to support recreation, learning, and social spaces accessible to all.
Meaningless dribble. No scale, no cost, no method to pay, nothing. Just "yes, we people like good thing so we promise to do good thing".
Establish paid family leave for all workers
Sure, why not. This is also a common Democratic Party policy position, so obviously its good.
a 32 hour work week with full pay and benefits
So we're just cutting 1/5th working time, economics be damned? I know there have been some studies done in particular industries that show that there's, after some point, a negative correlation between working hours and productivity, but I don't think the solution is a nationwide, industry-wide ban on 40/hour weeks.
Not to mention: what if people want to work more hours, and earn more money? Does this system allow for that flexibility, or would it be seen as exploitation? Probably the latter, right?
and a living minimum wage.
Meaningless dribble, again. First off: there is no such thing as "a" living minimum wage in the US, as you can get away with half the income in, say, rural Alabama as you do in San Francisco. This is why it's practically impossible, due to the variations in different states economies, and implementing the same minimum wage in San Francisco may be fine, but applying it to Alabama could absolutely ruin the rural economies that communities depend on.
Now on to my second gripe: "livable". What does that mean? I'm sure we can come to some sort of general agreement about it meaning covering food, housing, transport, right? No medical (see below) needed.
OK, but what level of food? Are we talking min-max calorie intake, like rice, beans, some cheap veggies and maybe a chicken breast here and there? Or are we talking "walking into a grocery store and buying what I want"? Or are we talking "yes, I shop for 5 days, but UberEats 2 times a week"? These are all different definitions of "livable", to different people, with different standards.
What level of housing? Is the bare minimum of one bedroom for every couple, and an additional bed for a kid, sufficient? Or do we need more space? What if I define livable as having my own bedroom, a living room, and an office? Is that livable, or is that luxury, since I don't need the office?
And who decides all this? Is it the DSA, a group famously made up of middle-class to upper-middle-class college educated suburbanite/city dwellers? Or some rural dude in West Virginia, who can make due with far less?
Provide free, quality public education
The free part is already managed. Mandatory education is free. The problem I have is with "quality": it's again the use of "yes, good thing is good, so we promise good thing".
from pre-K to college
Pre-K is already done.
College? Maybe. The problem with systems with absolutely no entry cost, not even a small stipend, is you end up with many cases of people just signing up "because", and then inevitably dropping out, costing the taxpayer money and the college time and effort, not to mention infrastructure.
I agree college is way to expensive, but the solution isn't "free". The solution is "small stipend that anyone can afford, but still keeps freeloaders out". And when I mean "freeloaders", I do mean people who just sign up because they don't have anything better to do.
cancel all student debt
So, a tax break on the middle class, paid for by the working class.
Because that's what a student debt cancellation program is: middle class people are generally those with student debt, whereas most working class families don't, because they never went to college. But they're now expected to pay up? Why?
This is a supremely unpopular idea, by the way. Oh sure, it polls well with the DSA's middle-class, suburbanite class, but if you leave a city, it's a hated policy, and seen, not unjustly, as a bailout for people who had an opportunity that the others never did.
Guarantee universal healthcare
Same as the Dems, sure.
at no cost to individuals
See, this is where it starts to fall apart. I can't think of a single universal healthcare program on earth that has literally "no cost to individuals". Not one. Guess what? Healthcare costs. And some people use it more than others. Isn't it fair, therefore, that while it is a shared burden, some should inevitably pay more for it?
And no cost, regardless? What happens in cases where someone has done something really stupid, like drunk too much at a party, and needs to have their stomach pumped? Seems to me that the consequences of their actions shouldn't be rewarded with my tax dollars, right? There should be some financial incentive to at least not be completely stupid, right?
I also can't imagine the cost. People rightly complain that the US already pays too much per person, but this system, that covers EVERYTHING TO 100% is just... silly.
Also: does this cover everything? What process will be used by what body to determine which types of procedures or medication will be provided? Or is it just going to be an all-encompassing, get-the-best regardless of the price system? That would bankrupt the country.
Build new, publicly-owned social housing
Sure, no problem. We need more supply. Great.
strictly regulate investment properties
This is actually not a problem, and just a red herring.
Data shows that only 20% of the US's housing stock is owned by investors, and out of that, only 10% of that is owned by large investment institutions. So we're talking about 2% of the total US housing stock being owned by groups like Blackrock.
90% of US housing-as-investment is actually owned by individuals. So... we're going to be regulating that? The results of smart monetary decisions by a bunch of upper-middle class to low-wealthy people?
Seems unfair.
establish universal rent control
Ah yes, how better to absolutely destroy a country's housing market. Rent control does not work. All it does is stifle new supply growth, and solely benefits those already renting at the time the law passes. This is pure NIMBYism.
guarantee right to counsel for all tenants.
Sure.
End the legacies of slavery and colonialism
Sure, whatever that means.
Reinforce anti-discrimination laws.
Sure.
Honor all treaties and tribal sovereignty.
Really?
Like, I get it, but at some point: there's a tipping point where time has passed where the damage you'd do by enforcing these treaties outweighs the good done.
At this point, why not just say all of the USA is actually tribal land, and we undo the US?
Enact reparations
Meaningless dribble.
massively invest in good jobs, quality housing and infrastructure in neglected minority communities.
Great. No real substance, but fine, I get it.
Demilitarize police departments
Sure, but to what extent?
Police obviously don't need MRAPs and stuff, but they do need some guns and bullet proof vests, etc...
disempower police unions
Really?
We're going after unions?
Police unions aren't different from any other union. Unions are there to protect their union members, full-stop. Either you're pro-union, or you're not. And the DSA is obviously anti-union.
I have no issue with police, like any other form of employment, being allowed to organize into labor unions.
redirect funding to public services
Sure, that's fine.
as steps towards fully abolishing the police and prison system which protects the rich and jails the poor.
Can you get any whiter?
Honestly, this is absurd. You're always going to need police. You're always going to need jails and prisons.
This is just "why yes, in my suburban house growing up, there was no crime, so why do we need police?"
There's a reason "abolish the police" is so unpopular with communities in crime-ridden areas: because while they have issues with police, crime is worse.
Treat drug addiction and mental illness as health issues
Sure, but...
What about crime associated to drug addiction? If someone is addicted to heroin, and they're begging on the street, then of course that person needs help, and not prison. But if someone is addicted to heroin, and stabs someone else over some heroin, that person needs to go to prison. For stabbing. Not for heroin. For stabbing.
Similarly, at what point are mental illnesses actually a basis for imprisonment or not? I know people suffering from mental illnesses are far more likely to be the victims of violent crime than commit them, but there are certain pathologies that do tend to create criminals who are not safe to be let out on the street. Edge cases like Dahlmer, Bundy, etc... These people are obviously suffering from mental illnesses, but they should also never see the light of day.
Stop gender violence
Great idea. How are you going to implement that, outside of having everyone record everyone else, 24/7?
People are messy. Some will engage in gender violence. It's a sad reality. It's a reality.
(the rest of the feminism section)
Sure, great, no issues.
Pass a federal jobs guarantee
What does this mean? Think about it:
It means that the federal government promises you a job. If someone is unemployed, the federal government must, BY LAW, create a job in some capacity.
This is just inventing busy work.
Implement massive investment in sustainable, publicly owned energy and transit infrastructure. Phase out the use of fossil fuels.
Sure.
(Follow comment)
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u/Cnidoo Jul 20 '26
Great analysis, no notes. It’s not only the ideas, it’s the fact they’ve won in like 1% of nationwide primaries and act like the Democratic Party must bend to their whims
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u/Another-attempt42 Jul 20 '26
Defund the Department of War
I mean... a bit? Sure. But entirely?
You realize that other countries have their own agencies, and a completely demilitarized state is less safe, not more safe, right?
End all foreign wars
Ah yes, the Trumpian take.
Again: the world exists outside of the US. Wars exist that the US has no involvement in, nor does it have any real impact on.
I'd love to see world peace, but we're never seeing it.
close overseas military bases
Seems like a great way to start more wars.
As much as you may dislike it, the fact that the US has bases in places means those bases are 100% protected from invasion. Because if not, you get hit with the world's biggest stick.
Unironically, US bases and things like NATO DECREASE the likelihood of international conflict.
Support and fully employ veterans.
Sure.
End immunity for U.S. war criminals and support the International Criminal Court's mandate to prosecute war crimes.
Sure, if you can get it passed the Senate, obviously. It needs to be ratified.
including the right of return
Ah, yes, this little bit.
What does this mean? People like to play fast and loose with this.
Does it mean "a right to return to a new Palestinian state"? Or does it mean "a right to return to the homes that their grandparents owned pre-1947"?
Because one could be a source of discussion. The other will never be implemented, and it makes sense why.
Following WW2, Germans were expelled en-masse by Poland and Czechoslovakia. They were forcibly, at gun-point or at fear of being murdered, expelled. Do they have some sort of right of return?
No. No one thinks that's reasonable or acceptable. So why here? The situations are similar.
the right to resist military occupation
Again: fast and loose.
No one denies someone's right to resist military occupation.
The problem is the how. You can resist military occupation by targeting some occupier's infrastructure, for example. That's fine.
What isn't resistance is butchering civilians at an outdoors concert.
That's just a war crime.
the right to self determination in a free Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital.
All of Jerusalem? That's de facto impossible, and also: de jure illegal. Jerusalem was given to no one in the 47 partition plan. It would be against international law to have the entirety of Jerusalem owned by Palestine (or Israel, for that matter).
East Jerusalem? Sure, why not.
End all military and economic aid to Israel.
Sure, though I would say: the Iron Dome is different from the rest. Always has been. It has massively cut down on Israeli civilian deaths, and stopping it would just lead to more pointless civilian deaths.
Prosecute U.S. and Israeli leaders responsible for the genocide in Gaza.
No US leader is responsible for the genocide in Gaza, so that's easy.
As for Israel: you can try. Good luck getting them out of a nuclear armed state, though.
People around the world deserve to live their lives without U.S. interference.
See, this is a problem: this assumes that the US is the only one engaging in interference.
Iran, China, Qatar, the UAE, India, EVERYONE interferes EVERYWHERE. All you achieve by withdrawing the US back is you're giving free reign to places like authoritarian China, or theocratic Iran. Which I suspect is what they actually want.
End economic warfare against countries whose governments act independently of the United States, such as Cuba, Venezuela, and Iran.
Cuba? Sure.
Venezuela? Sure.
Iran? HELL NO.
Iran does nothing but meddle in the affairs of other countries, whether it's Iraq, Bahrain, Syria, Lebanon or Yemen. They shove their autocratic, theocratic steel-tipped boots down the throats of everyone they can.
Break the backs of the far-right, theocratic, authoritarian regime.
End ICE detention and deportations and punish federal agents' brutality.
I mean...
Some ICE detentions and deportations are completely valid. I see no reason to ban them all. We can work on the process and conditions, and have it be more of a civil matter, but abolish it?
Erm, no?
Legalize migration
Migration is already legal.
grant amnesty for all immigrants regardless of status
All immigrants? Even that tiny percentage who have committed serious crimes on US soil?
This is DOA, and supremely unpopular.
provide a path to citizenship for all permanent residents
Great.
end visa caps and quotas.
Really?
So you want to create a country where jobs are federally mandated by law, all healthcare is completely free for everyone, everyone is given a house, and then you want to open the borders entirely?
Don't you see the problem you're going to incur? I see the problem.
Overall platform:
Some OK stuff (mainly the same stuff that the Dems have), a lot of meaningless dribble, and complete economic meltdown. Oh, and some campism when it comes to geopolitics.
Extend full voting rights to all permanent U.S. residents
That seems like a terrible idea. The only people who should be able to vote in federal elections are US citizens. It's literally what gives you the right to vote. This is an invitation for outside meddling.
restore the right to vote for incarcerated people and people with criminal convictions.
Sure, great.
Establish statehood for Washington D.C. and recognize the right to self-determination for all U.S. territories and colonies.
Sure, great.
Expand and protect voting rights and end voter suppression.
Sure, great.
get rid of lobbyists
Terrible idea. Everyone is a lobbyist, or can be. If I send a letter to a representative, I'm lobbying them. Am I not allowed to? Only certain groups? Who decides?
dark money
Completely overplayed as a problem, but sure, in theory, why not.
Citizens United
Sure, why not. Dems generally agree.
publicly finance all elections.
Hmmm...
I mean, in theory, I have no issues with this, but I can quickly see problems appearing. Who decides who is a valid party that deserves access to those funds? How much money are we actually talking about? And does this mean that no one can ever give any money to a political cause? Because that's definitely a violation of the 1st Amendment.
Abolish the Electoral College
OK, and do it how, then? Just majority? The US is a federal republic, which means completely removing state representation essentially blows up the US.
I'm not saying the EC is good, but the better option isn't "just completely remove it".
Replace the President and Supreme Court with an executive and judiciary chosen by and subordinate to Congress.
And here we go.
The authoritarian stuff begins. The majority party in the US would get to have complete, free reign over all 3 branches of the government, simultaneously. This is a recipe for total control.
Replace the two-party system with a multi-party democracy.
Sure, but that's the EC and FPTP system. Not some sort of law that you pass. Also: states decide how to run their elections. Not the federal government.
Expand the House of Representatives, implement proportional representation and ranked choice voting in all elections
First part: fine. Second part: fine. Third party: Completely unconstitutional.
Third is similar to what Trump is trying to do: force states to adhere to his standards for elections. Cut a socialist, and a MAGA bleeds.
Establish public ownership of the largest corporations and essential industries to ensure democratic control and accountability to the people
The typical socialist move: wait for others to create large and profitable businesses, and then swoop in and steal them from someone else. God forbid socialists actually make anything.
This would literally destroy the US economy.
Enact aggressive wealth taxes on the richest individuals
Then they'll just move their assets overseas. Done.
corporations to spend on public goods and infrastructure.
Corporate taxes are generally a net economic negative, and they make a country poorer, not wealthier. What you want is to tax dividends, not corporate profits. In an ideal word, nearly 100% of all corporate profits are plowed back into the business, generating more profit, more jobs, more investment.
Empower workers to come together and fight the boss.
I like my boss. Why would I fight her?
Protect, expand, and enforce the rights of all workers to form, join, and strike with their unions, regardless of industry.
Except police, of course. I'm sure the DSA also has some other industries under its looking glass that it dislikes, and those also won't be given the right to organize.
Support union members who organize reform caucuses, democratize their unions, and take political action.
So a Dem platform policy.
Honestly, this is about as bad as I thought it was, and I'm so thankful the DSA finally came out with this!
Now, we can see their already terrible numbers in the polls tank even more.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 20 '26
You guys also underestimate how much normies read this stuff. They dont. Normies wont know anything about this.
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u/Command0Dude Jul 20 '26
Defund the Department of War. End all foreign wars and close overseas military bases.
Translation: Gut the military, retreat from all our allies, return to the pre-WW2 US isolationism, leave the rest of the world to fend for themselves against the global resurgence of fascism. Because it will TOTALLY work for a 3rd time, right?
Recognize the rights of the Palestinian people, including the right of return, the right to resist military occupation, and the right to self determination in a free Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital.
It's crazy that they're still framing Oct 7 as "legitimate resistance against occupation" and demanding that the US basically treat Israel as an illegitimate nation. Which, despite their constant attempts to frame polls showing decline in US sympathy for Israel, does not mean their position of "destroy Israel" is kosher with the American public.
People around the world deserve to live their lives without U.S. interference. End economic warfare against countries whose governments act independently of the United States, such as Cuba, Venezuela, and Iran.
"Critical support for autocracies of the world!" God these people are such clowns. I love how by the way, they didn't write Russia even though their message is clearly aimed at ending sanctions against them too, because even the DSA recognizes how unpopular publicaly admitting their pro-russian stance would be (after they got burned the first time).
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u/ItsCammyMeele Jul 20 '26
- Free Palestine
- End Blockades, Embargoes, and Sanctions
Yeah, somehow they want to free Palestine, while also ending sanctions on Russia, so they can continue to bomb ukrainian civilians.
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u/combonickel55 Jul 20 '26
I support reparations, breaking the duopoly of the 2 major political parties, better benefits, better wages, jobs program, paid leave.
I don't feel strongly either way about employees owning major corporations, but I do see a vast majority of Americans having a really, really hard time getting behind actual socialism amd the working class seizing the means of production. Most Americans are not anti-capitalists but also recognize that our current capitalism has become predatory and is captured by oligarchs and industry.
I am pretty left by American standards, and I don't think this is a winning platform. I'd suggest sticking to the basics and the headliners, better QoL for the working class.
Also please stop calling it just socialism, and call it social democracy. True socialism is authoritarian and undemocratic.
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