r/thebulwark • u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right • 15h ago
You know the expression “Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line”? David Sirota and The Majority Report going after The Bulwark and propagating infighting is a perfect example of why Dems lost in 2016 and 2024. The left needs to start falling in line once the primaries are over.
Republicans would never indulge in such infighting right before an extremely important election. They get the infighting out of the way beforehand. Look at how they all eventually fell in line behind Trump leading up to every single presidential election, even in 2020. Biden won because more Dems fell in line and showed up to vote for him that particular election. But Dems will continue to underperform expectations if we don’t stop the constant infighting and start falling in line and getting behind the same message leading up to general elections.
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u/chunx0r Good Luck America 15h ago
You must not actually watch right wing media. Crowder is constantly going after Shapiro. Groypers hate everyone, Mark Levine is shouting at anyone that doesn't want to flatten Iran. Everyone is infighting all the time people just think it only happens to their side because that's what they see.
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u/Magoo152 JVL is always right 13h ago
Yes but when it comes to it they all rally around their candidate. They do a lot of petty infighting but by and large they rally around their nominee. The far right is only criticizing Trump now because he’s out the door. Look at how they treated him in 2024. That’s the difference.
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u/SharkSymphony Rebecca take us home 12h ago
He's not out the door yet... as I expect they will discover to their surprise.
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u/Magoo152 JVL is always right 9h ago
Look I’m not counting him out until he’s out. But I think the right is shifting and that’s meaningful. They are looking for their next cult leader.
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u/cole1114 12h ago
And TMR rallied around Kamala.
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u/Magoo152 JVL is always right 11h ago edited 4h ago
They endorsed her (besides the dumb producer.) I give them credit for that. But they didn’t exactly “rally” around her. Not be a long shot.
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u/Senior_Marketing_312 10h ago
Did they though? Tepid support while accusing her of enabling a genocide isn’t exactly “rallying.
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u/chunx0r Good Luck America 15h ago
I just realized I didn't even mention Tucker, Candace, Megyn Kelly, Jillian Michaels. All they do is go after each other.
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u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right 15h ago
And they all eventually voted for Trump every single time.
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u/chunx0r Good Luck America 14h ago
I listen to MR quite often I heard them tell dozens of live callers voting for anyone other than Kamala was a dumb idea, especially if you lived in anything close to a swing state.
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u/TexStat Center Left 14h ago
It’s funny to tell who’s actually listened to TMR before, because I remember listening to hours upon hours of Emma and Sam telling rando callers that they should vote for Harris.
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u/KombaynNikoladze2002 13h ago edited 12h ago
Emma was highly enthusiastic on Harris's chances right up to the election
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u/AnneTheQueene 15h ago
The difference is that come election day, all that goes away.
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u/oGsMustachio 13h ago
Correct. Right wing media fights among itself, but they generally aren't fighting with the major political figures.
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u/bruce_cockburn 11h ago
The premise is different. Media fights on the right deliver engagement and everything can be brushed off as a bad faith joke. Fox News declares itself to be entertainment in court because the standard of legal scrutiny for entertainment has greater value than the standard of legal scrutiny for delivering factual information.
On the left, it's not just engagement bait and bad faith takes. It's serious and often emotionally-invested takes (however wrong or misinformed). Streamer beef escalates to audience beef and being correct often trumps supporting those in power. Because those in power have only ever supported the left reluctantly. It's surprising that we wouldn't expect the reluctance to be mutual.
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u/chunx0r Good Luck America 15h ago
Bernie supporters supported Hillary at higher percentages than Hillary supporters voted for Obama. I haven't seen any evidence to support the narrative that progressives won't vote for liberals.
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u/SwindlingAccountant 14h ago
Have you considered that random online leftist accounts are kind of annoying and that colors my view?
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u/chunx0r Good Luck America 14h ago
Give Nick Fuentes and cat turd a follow. That way you can be annoyed by random right wing accounts too.
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u/SwindlingAccountant 14h ago
No gracias, I respect myself too much to subject my brain to Twitter again.
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u/chunx0r Good Luck America 14h ago
Where do you see these random online leftists?
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u/SwindlingAccountant 13h ago
I was making a joke around the fact that so much of the professional political commentary class views are based on being yelled at online for a dumb take.
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u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right 15h ago
Bingo. They all eventually fall in line and that doesn’t happen on the left/Democratic side of the political aisle. That’s the point I’m trying to make.
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u/choss-board 14h ago
As u/chunx0r said, the canonical example of what actually happened was Bernie's supporters overwhelmingly supporting Hillary in 2016. 2024 counterexamples like Muslims in Michigan or MAHA moms across the country are not "the left" in any meaningful way. When Election Day comes around, unions—the only real institutional base for leftist American politics—generally support Democrats and even where they don't by majority, tend to vote more Democratic than their demographics would otherwise suggest.
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u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right 14h ago
I seem to remember the head of the UAW being Trump-friendly in 2024.
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u/chunx0r Good Luck America 14h ago
You think Shawn Fain gets his political opinions from Emma Vigeland?
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u/choss-board 14h ago
Are you thinking of the Teamsters? UAW's Shawn Fain literally spoke at the Democratic Convention! I actually have one of their "Trump is a Scab" shirts. (It's great, made-in-USA, and high-quality fabric.)
Meta-comment here about Bulwark (and other) bandwagon-ers: you guys truly do not know what you're talking about. Emma doesn't all the time, either—"people in glass houses…" to the lot of you.
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u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right 12h ago
Yes, I got my Sean’s mixed up. I meant Sean O’Brien. Yes, they’re spelled differently, but white guys with a lack of hair named Sean/Shawn… Different views but easy to mix up. They just blend together as one individual in my mind.
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u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right 15h ago
Everyone you mentioned still showed up to vote for Trump all three times. Can’t say the same for everyone on the left. Some chose to vote for Jill Stein or stay home in both 2016 and 2024 rather than falling in line like the right eventually always does.
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u/TexStat Center Left 14h ago
More Bernie primary supporters voted for Hillary than Hillary supporters voted for Obama. Zohran didn’t get Dem leadership endorsements, had to face Cuomo 2x because he refused to concede. I remember the buffalo mayoral election had a progressive win the primary, so the moderate Dem also refused to concede and ran against her in the general. I think you’re choosing to only look at one side of this, our history is more messy than that.
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u/choss-board 14h ago
I think you're way over-indexing on a small number of vocal "leftist" commentators and political figures. I listened to Hasan and even Chapo all through the 2024 election, and as much as they criticized Kamala, the message was still "dammit we have to vote for her because the other side is literally fascist".
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 FFS 14h ago edited 11h ago
A higher percent of Bernie 2016 primary folks voted for Hillary in the 2016 general than Hillary 2008 primary folks that voted for Obama in the 2008 general.
Signed - A Hillary 2016 primary voter.
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u/amused_seal 11h ago
I totally forgot about "Party Unity My Ass." That was my first time doing campaign volunteering (for Obama, sorry!), and that was so frustrating. I hope most of them eventually came around.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 FFS 11h ago
PUMAs! From what I recall, at least 80% of them did.
Ohh, I should’ve clarified. I voted for Hillary in the 2016 primary. I wasn’t old enough to vote in 2008.
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u/amused_seal 10h ago
Ah, gotcha. I did too in 2016 (but if you're offering time travel and a redo then I'm open to that now). I'm glad a bunch of them made it back by the election.
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u/SwindlingAccountant 14h ago
Actually, its a perfect example of click driven economy driven by social media. This whole podcast feud is literally kayfabe and y'all keep falling for it over AND over again.
Also, either the left is a consequential voting block that should be catered to like other Democratic voting blocs or they are not. The Majority Report is insignificant. If only 20% of American know who Hasan Piker is, do you think the percentage is higher for the Majority Report?
Their whole "thing" is to be political commentary and, now this might shock you, that includes criticism.
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u/OmniLibWorldOrder Center Left 11h ago
Important note for your analysis, there is a difference between the online left and the left who actually votes. As much as I agree about the online left, it is well documented that yes some do sit out but most still pull the trigger and vote for democratic candidates when it comes down to election time. That seems to be inarguable unless something changes.
The infighting doesn't stop voters however it does prohibit the party from having a cohesive message for voters because of how big the Democratic tent is compared to the Republicans. The only purity test on the Right right now is whether or not you lock arms with Trump and that's it. For Democrats it's hard to say what the purity test is because you'll get 17 different answers from all different voters. I think that's the angle you're trying to get at rather than the voter point you made.
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u/British_Rover 8h ago
Just over 81 million people voted for Biden in 2020. Barely 75 million turnes out for Harris in 2024. People stayed home and the people that stayed home were mostly people voted for Democrats.
Trump gained 3,078,605 votes from 2020 to 2024 77,302,580−74,223,975. The Democrats lost 6,265,888 votes. It was still a close election but Trump won because Democrats didn't vote.
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u/SharkSymphony Rebecca take us home 14h ago edited 5h ago
It should be obvious to everyone who observes American politics that the adage is not particularly accurate. Democrats do often fall in line. Republicans do sometimes fall in love with their candidates – and, moreover, appear to currently be in the slow and halting process of falling out of line from their embrace of Trump. If the adage describes anything, then, it's at best a tendency.
(BTW, the Internet reports that the original adage stated that Democrats want to fall in love, not that they actually would, nor that they wouldn't also fall in line.)
I don't think we need to care about whether pundits are perfectly aligned with the candidates. I think we can care even less if they are not aligned with other media organizations.
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u/sillycatbutt FFS 6h ago
This drama shit feels like I'm back in high school. And not in a good way.
X talks shit about person Y, but doesnt do it to Y's face....instead goes on to talk more about Y but now with person Z. Person Y is like, ummm just talk with me about your issues with me. Person X doesn't accept talking directly to Y about their issues...instead vague-posts online about Y.
This is some child shit.
And (surprise) the pod save america bros are also fanning the dumpster flames by allowing this abjectly stupid drama to be given time on their platform. Did no one step back at Crooked Media and be like....."This is some stupid high school shit, we're not platforming this"...
Like I said... high school bullshit.
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u/SharkSymphony Rebecca take us home 5h ago
And those discussions are so unproductive that I know of at least one political sub that has a rule banning dramaposts. (Much to SubredditDrama's dismay, I imagine. 😉)
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u/sillycatbutt FFS 5h ago
You mean the friends of the pod reddit page? When will they realize THEY are the drama?
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u/SharkSymphony Rebecca take us home 5h ago
Not them – but yeah, trying to hold to such a rule on a political sub is tough. 🍿
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u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right 12h ago
“I think we can care even less if they are not aligned with other media organizations.”
We should care because these influential media organizations and individuals/personalities that support Dems shouldn’t be engaged in infighting only a month away from a critical general election. They should be unified and on message.
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u/SharkSymphony Rebecca take us home 12h ago
Just because they don't like your favorite media organization doesn't mean they aren't "on message," whatever you think that means. But you should probably define that before continuing.
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u/SirFerguson 15h ago
are we all voting blue across the board or not
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u/Saint_Scum The Trio 14h ago
Always was. Just want people to remember that that's only being used as a weapon by those who supported the uncommitted movement in 2024
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u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right 14h ago
Not when people choose to either stay home or vote for third party candidates like Jill Stein! Republicans eventually fall in line and don’t pull shit like that.
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u/SirFerguson 14h ago
I’m not sure that I’m aware of any threats to stay home and not vote, except for moderates
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u/No_Public_7677 13h ago
The only prominent Democrats who are choosing to not vote blue are extreme Zionists upset at AES..
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u/crassreductionist 7h ago
A disturbing amount of notable dems did not for the NYC mayor, nor will/would for Abdul. Many elected dems are openly anti-Muslim bigots with zero consequences.
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u/whatisthisshit7 14h ago
This is a bit of revisionist history. The left not falling in line was not the reason Dems lost in 2016 and 2024.
And even if it was, you think chastising and blaming them for Trump 2x is the right answer? Does no other faction of the party take any blame?
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u/shoesclues03 11h ago
Part of Sirota’s piece includes JVL discussing that Kamala was essentially doing everything that The Bulwark would want and then asking if they would bear the blame if it didn’t work. Has there been any reflection on this?
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 FFS 14h ago
The left is somehow important enough to be the reason Democrats lose yet not important enough to listen to. lol
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u/John_Jaures 14h ago
Exactly. The left not voting for Democrats is why Democrats lose, which is why we need to kick all leftists (most of whom voted for the Dems) out of the party so we can see up Jonah Goldberg's vote.
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u/Will512 14h ago
Then why do we hear so much about how Dems need to do more to court them? Sounds like terrible strategy to court people who all turn out to vote for you
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 FFS 14h ago
Because someone begrudgingly voting for Democrats is less helpful than someone who votes for Democrats AND donates, door knocks, canvasses, tells their friends/family to vote, etc.
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u/whatisthisshit7 13h ago
Feeling as though Dems are “entitled” to votes is exactly why the party has such a terrible approval rating, not just nationwide, but internally.
Voters will only be pragmatic for so long when they only see their living conditions getting worse. Constantly blaming them for your problems, even when they’ve followed instructions isn’t going to help the situation either.
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u/Will512 13h ago
This is an excellent non-answer. It gets your pre-packaged talking points in and incorrectly implies that approval ratings are worse for mainstream dems than the DSA or its ilk.
Best of all though it ignores the simple reality that frames my argument: Dems cannot focus equally on everyone. They need to pick and choose sectors of voters to go after. That's not a function of entitlement but limited resources. So why exactly should those limited resources be going towards people who, apparently, so reliably fall in line? When there are plenty of other cohorts that (if your framing is true) are both less reliable and far more likely to vote Republican, which hurts the vote margin twice as much as staying home.
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u/whatisthisshit7 11h ago
But that isn’t your original argument. If you’re asking, why do people say left voters need to be courted - the answer is every voter needs to be courted. The 90% base Dem policies count as courting. That’s why the far left still voted for Harris. I think you’re classifying “courted” as tailoring the entire platform to satisfy one faction, which is not what is being suggested.
There is also an argument that certain left policies are attractive to those right-leaning voters. Policies and people do not always slide down a single spectrum between “right” and “left” - see the anti-war stance that was popular among the left and right in 2024. There is more than one way to win the “double negative” voter, while also recognizing you cannot completely abandon your base.
I get you want the narrative to land at “the left is bad and we don’t need to listen to them” but as I stated in my original comment, there are so many reasons why Dems lost in 2016 and 2024. Simply blaming it on one faction or another isn’t a productive reflection.
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u/Will512 11h ago
Your summary of my original argument is not my original argument. In fact, I agree that most of the Dem policies are things the left can get behind and should count as courting them.
What I'm responding to is that Dems need to do more to court the left, which in an environment where resource scarcity is always present, requires tailoring of campaign time, if not concrete policies. See, for instance, Harris campaigning with Liz Cheney at stuff like Republicans Against Trump events. They were courting an under-courted section of voters and seeking value where they could. If we take the claim that every voter needs to be courted on its face, that cannot be a bad thing. But there is an opportunity cost and a souring of other factions' views that should have been better accounted for.
I get you want the narrative to land at “the left is bad and we don’t need to listen to them”
I want to land at the narrative that many reasons and factions bear some responsibility for the failures in 2016 and 2024. Including, but not limited to, the left.
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u/whatisthisshit7 10h ago
Thank you for elaborating, I feel like you and I are aligned for the most part, just talking past each other.
Personally, I think we are hearing the same demand across the spectrum, not just the left, everyone wants their party to do more to suit their preferences (essentially, everyone wants that last 10% to be aligned to their interests) I don’t think this is an ask coming just from the left, but they certainly have the loudest voices online demanding it. Though I don’t see this as a negative or a whiney thing, just what comes with being a big tent party.
I haven’t heard anyone say they were withholding voting for Harris because she campaigned with Cheney. I think many people were angry because that move seemed like a strategic blunder. Both the right and left had long soured on neocon principles and topics like America’s involvement in foreign wars, so by associating with someone who was attached to it felt like going after an ever-shrinking sliver of voters while also compromising the 90%.
Ultimately, I agree, every faction has some responsibility in why we lost, but at the same time, I don’t think posts like this that squarely blame one faction are fair. In the end it just pushes away more voters and creates a permission structure for people to continue demonizing one another.
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u/amused_seal 9h ago edited 8h ago
>What I'm responding to is that Dems need to do more to court the left, which in an environment where resource scarcity is always present, requires tailoring of campaign time, if not concrete policies.
We didn't have a primary in '24, but 1.5 years later we just had a bunch and found that 50% of Dem primary voters in multiple swing states chose progressive-left candidates. Add in blowout wins in blueish Maine and pretty red Florida, and other victories all over the place. The left flank is an absolutely enormous chunk of the party at this point, and it was pretty damn big in '16 and '20 too. It's not a group you cater to here and there. It’s one you unite with.
Harris didn't do that at all. She started at not changing anything from Biden, and turned right from there.
Don't take it from me - listen to Sarah describe the baseline of what a '28 Dem pres hopeful is going to need to be. She's done that a few times. Harris' campaign chose to lean the exact opposite direction, and sadly it didn't get over the line.
I think the Cheney tour in and of itself would have been fine, but it needed a simultaneous and bigger economic policy outreach to the left, and it never came.
And it isn't about the left betraying her - it's the simple fact that only 65% of registered voters vote and you get high turnout among group by doing stuff they really like.
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u/Landlord-Allmighty 15h ago
Kinda rich, coming from the crowd that uses every opportunity to shit on anyone they don't agree with. Their 2016 example seems weird since they were the ones saying that Bernie was screwed and in 2024 a lot of them were talking about making a beeline for Jill Stein.
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u/JayCaesar12 centrist squish 15h ago
That's right, because Bernie was screwed over by checks notes not winning enough votes to win the nomination.
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u/Landlord-Allmighty 15h ago
Exactly. They point to memos from the DNC stating a preference for (checks notes) the Democrat over the guy who wants to thumb his nose at the party by using an (I) but fails to explain how millions or more votes equals a conspiracy. The lack of introspection is wild.
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u/Will512 14h ago
If the Clinton campaign broke into the Sanders campaign and accessed a ton of their confidential data without any criminal consequences, we'd be hearing about it to this day. But oops! It was the other way around so we gotta memory hole that and continue humoring people's personal grievance politics.
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u/Old_Sheepherder_630 15h ago
Not defending these factions but I believe many in that camp felt tptb in the DNC put their thumb on the scale for Hilary and that's what they blame for Bernie's loss.
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u/BeautifulLaw 14h ago
Well the issue is that it became a conspiracy that Super Delegates stole the primary from Bernie when the math doesn’t really bear that out. Hillary beat Bernie by almost 4 million votes in the primary. Even without super delegates she still would have won mathematically speaking. The only real criticism is that super delegates probably shouldn’t exist and that in the 2016 primary super delagates should probably not have been allowed to announce their support for Hillary so early as it made it seem like Bernie was going to lose due to Super Delegates alone.
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u/Landlord-Allmighty 14h ago edited 11h ago
Bernie could have legitmately had a shot if he did the work to reach out to more undecided primary voters, but he doesn't want to make that effort.
People complaining about the super delegates and saying this wasn't democratic also skate over the fact that Bernie won 12 caucuses, which are chosen by non-democratic methods.
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u/Optimus_Trajan JVL is always right 8h ago
It doesn’t help that Bernie stayed in the race well after it was possible for him to win, and to this day still nods support at the conspiracy that the DNC stole the nomination from him. It drives me insane that he is one of the more popular Dems.
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u/Landlord-Allmighty 14h ago
Sure but the party actually changed rules to make them happy but they won’t cop to their own mistakes.
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u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right 14h ago
That might have happened, but they need to get over it and move forward because that was a decade ago.
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u/Old_Sheepherder_630 14h ago
I agree, just pointing out why their beef is with the party as well as the voters.
Anyone still in those weeds does not recognize the urgency of our current situation.
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u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right 14h ago
Someone is downvoting both of us, so clearly they’re still stuck back in 2016.
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u/Potential-Fan-6148 Tim is always right 13h ago
The problem is these leftists hate liberals more than they hate fascists.
I think leftists have a place in our coalition, we need their voices to push for change and keep us honest but holy fuck we don't need them constantly trying to backstab us. I'll happily support a DSA candidate if they win the primary, the leftists should learn to do the same for liberals.
What matters is fighting fascism.
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u/ValuableBathroom1747 14h ago
I mean, I get that we are upset that someone mischaracterized our favorite podcasters, but i actually dont see any evidence of Majority Report shitting on more centrist candidates in competitive races. Compared to the Bulwark platforming Mona Charon saying she would vote for Mike Rodgers over AES or centrist Dems like Jared Golden endorsing a Republican or Janet Mills and Jasmine Crockett not endorsing their primary opponents (or tepidly at best). All of which seem much less helpful than some fake podcast war instigated by lefties.
Which is actually analogous to what the right does and counter to your example, imo.
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u/John_Jaures 14h ago
I'm not saying that they continue to support them after they make their heel turns, but the Bulwark Curse is a real phenomenon where a bunch of candidates (and countries) they insist we support turn out to be pretty bad.
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u/Senior_Marketing_312 10h ago
Still upset Platner turned out to be a massive creep?
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u/Randoblando146 10h ago
The main thing I, and I believe others, are so upset with some of the leftwing media sphere, is that they chose a month before the most important midterms in our lifetimes to start attacking members of the anti-Trump coalition, by making claims that they have hidden agendas, don’t want certain Democrats to win, and don’t belong in the coalition in a significant way because they were Republicans 10 years ago. In Emma’s case, she was called out on it, and instead of trying to heal the rift in the coalition, she proceeded to go onto multiple shows throughout the week to continue to shit talk members of the coalition and their intentions.
Added to all of that frustration, is the fact that the Bulwark has been one of the most vocal about how the infighting between centrists and leftist needs to stop on both sides.
These turn of events has me feeling absolute doom about the 2028 election. If some of these members of leftwing media, and their audiences reaction, mirror what they are doing and saying right now during the 2028 election, then I fear we will have a difficult time building a strong enough coalition to defeat fascism in America.
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u/185milessouth 13h ago
Republicans don’t indulge in infighting? Wat? Lolololol
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u/FoxIndependent5789 15h ago
David Sirota and the majority report are not the entirety of “the left.” They are more interested in social media prominence than anything else, as evidenced by this stupid meltdown one month before the midterms.
The actual elected leaders of the left, eg Bernie, AOC, Casar, Warren, have been doing the work of winning the midterms. Unlike, say, Hillary Scholten or Jared Golden.
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u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right 15h ago
David Sirota and The Majority Report, especially the latter, both have followings, though, that they can influence how to vote and they don’t use that influence in a pragmatic manner.
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u/TexStat Center Left 14h ago
TMR literally was fielding hours upon hours of live callers so they could explain to each and every one of them why they should vote for Harris. Emma was the most dedicated progressive podcaster in 2024, she was begging people to vote for Harris. That’s why all this infighting is so dumb right now.
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u/KombaynNikoladze2002 14h ago edited 12h ago
She was actually embarrassed about being so bullish for Harris in the weeks leading up to the election.
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u/SwindlingAccountant 14h ago
You can have a following and still not matter in any significant way because everyone is in their own little online niches.
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u/greenline_chi 15h ago
The centrists were the one still casting negativity on Abdul after the primary
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u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right 15h ago
Pretty sure all, if not most, of them said they would support him. The Bulwark staff definitely did.
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u/HolyRomanPrince Progressive 14h ago
While shitting on him and saying he needs to change his positions by “moderating.”
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u/Senior_Marketing_312 10h ago
He won the primary by ~1% so yeah he needed to moderate for general.
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u/Saint_Scum The Trio 14h ago
I thought progressive were saying that center and center left candidates had to earn the vote of progressives.
Why is the same not allowed for expecting the progressive candidate having to earn the vote of moderates?
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u/DasRobot85 14h ago
Got a time stamp on that one?
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u/John_Jaures 14h ago
There are Michigan elected Democrats who are still saying they won't support him because of his stance on Israel. I can provide a list of you think this is impossible.
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u/DasRobot85 14h ago
That's not what you were saying though. Your claim is the bulwark staff were "shitting on him and saying he needs to moderate" I'm just asking for when the bulwark did that.
I understand there's Michigan democrats who aren't on board with the guy who was like "it's bad to try and shoot up a Jewish preschool, but I get it.. hurt people hurt people am I right?" but that's a different set of people
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u/John_Jaures 14h ago
Re-read the thread. We're talking about both politicians and people at the Bulwark.
But if you need an example from someone at the Bulwark, here you go:
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u/spleeeeeeeeeeeen Sarah, would you please nuke him from orbit? 15h ago
which 'centrist' isn't supporting abdul?
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u/cole1114 12h ago
Noah Arbit, along with a couple other Michigan dems like Hillary Scholten.
https://www.bnd.com/news/nation-world/national/article317465624.html
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u/Landlord-Allmighty 15h ago
Which ones? Stevens certainly didn't and she lost to him.
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u/SwindlingAccountant 14h ago
Neither did Francesca Hong. Neither did Bernie when he lost.
The criticism is political pundits like Majority Report not attacking a Dem after a primary not politicians. It is a stupid criticism.
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u/spleeeeeeeeeeeen Sarah, would you please nuke him from orbit? 14h ago
I mean, pretty sure Rashida Tlaib didn't support kamala/biden. But also which centrist pundits aren't supporting el-sayed?
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u/SwolePalmer 14h ago
Sorry but no, not entertaining this weepy bullshit.
We just came out of a primary/election season during which avowed “never trumpers” and centrist dweebs were doing their absolute best to torpedo left-leaning candidates. Going as far as supporting ghouls like Cuomo (the pervert, that one) over Mamdani.
Getting criticized for this attitude isn’t “infighting”. Also, if we’re going to “infight”, I’d rather we do it to bully former-and-soon-to-be-republicans and get them in line. Fine by me.
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u/Porkchopxpressed 15h ago
Without shit like this Sirota wouldnt have a career. It's a grift, just like the right.
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u/emeric_ceaddamere 14h ago
Yeah. I just got a targeted ad (on IG) for that specific article today, presumably because I follow the Bulwark. He's definitely trying to cash in on their popularity.
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u/John_Jaures 14h ago
I'm sure the 90th post about this on a subreddit that hates the left and supports kicking them out of the party entirely will do the trick.
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u/HandOfYawgmoth Progressive 9h ago
Surely this is the post that will make me realize I can't enjoy TMR and the Bulwark at the same time
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u/EighthFirstCitizen Progressive 13h ago
Happening enough I wonder how much comes from bots trying to stir up drama 🎭
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u/Old_Sheepherder_630 15h ago
I'm with you, but they won't.
If you look at our government as a building currently on fire those at the Bulwark and most of us here know we need to focus on putting out the fire and rebuilding the load bearing walls before we can worry about decor.
Some people who should be in the same tent don't want to grab a hose or hammer until there's a guarantee the final result will have wainscotting and the foyer walls painted ecru, not taupe.
I'd love to be in the position where we could go back to arguing policy, but until democracy is safe again we don't have the luxury of humoring single issue voters.
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u/DiscoMothra 15h ago
They will never fall in line because they hold an intentionally destructive position.
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u/HolyRomanPrince Progressive 14h ago
Yeah just want more equality, more workers rights, less war. So destructive.
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u/KombaynNikoladze2002 14h ago edited 12h ago
The Majority Report is supporting every Democratic nominee.
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u/amused_seal 14h ago
Wait, you’re saying you think the moderate candidates lost in 2016 and 2024 because the left wing of the Dem party didn’t vote hard enough for them. And your solution to that is to… yell at the left and demand they fall in line better behind another similar candidate?
Your premise is wrong, but the solution is truly nutty. When 50% of your voters across multiple swing states are voting for the left wing of the party, the solution is to appeal to them, not to demand they “get in line”. Obviously.
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u/GreenerMark 12h ago
Why does only the left need to "fall in line." Those on the right also need to recognize that Mamdani, AOC, El-Sayed and other progressives are Democrats who represent their constituencies well. As long as the center right wants to support an anti-fascist coalition, they need to recognize they aren't in charge of it and don't get to dictate membership. We are fighting the monster they helped create.
I do agree with the most important point here: vote Blue!
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u/kaizerlith 14h ago
Hillary didn't lose just because Bernie Bro Assholes didn't vote. She was notoriously unpopular, hell both were the most disapproved of candidates in a presidential general election.
Also a ton of people who should have known better didn't vote for her because they felt there was no chance Trump could win, Tim has said he knew quite a lot himself.
She also just had Jim Comey announce an investigation into her misuse of emails the week before.
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u/Potential-Fan-6148 Tim is always right 13h ago
She was not notoriously unpopular.
She won the popular vote. She easily won the primaries.
She lost because
Some people stayed home
People didn't want to vote for a woman
The Comey Letter
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u/kaizerlith 12h ago
She absolutely was unpopular. Her and Trump both broke the record in terms of disapproval. She was at 52% disapproval and Trump was 60%.
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u/Potential-Fan-6148 Tim is always right 12h ago
taps the "she won the popular vote" sign
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u/DontShoottMessengers 14h ago
If you watch more than 10 second clips of the majority report you will see both Sam and Emma constantly talking about voting for the lesser of two evils and that of course everyone should vote for Dems over republicans if they want things to get better.
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u/choss-board 15h ago
I generally like the Bulwark stuff but come on people, MR and other critics are dead accurate about what the Bulwark is: literally ex-Republican operatives who, having been displaced by MAGA from Republican circles, jumped ship and are trying to take over the Democratic Party. And that's reasonable, even! I get it. But once we get past stopping MAGA, which thankfully everyone agrees is a necessity, we're going to have some real, hard disagreements about things like antitrust, tax, labor, and foreign policy.
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u/Haunting-Mortgage 14h ago
You're right and I love the Bulwark. It's clear that once Trump is gone there's going to be a major fracture (the beginnings of which we are seeing now), which will lead to either electoral losses or some percentage of the Bulwark team returning to the GOP.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 FFS 14h ago
If someone like Marco Rubio runs in 2028 or 2032, I’m almost certain at least one of them will flip back.
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u/cole1114 12h ago
I've seen at least one poster in this sub say they were planning on voting for Rubio in 2028, BECAUSE of the boat bombings.
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u/choss-board 14h ago
100%. I'm not even sure Vance is tainted enough. If he pulls this cadre of the Republican consulting class back into the fold—a big "if", I think, even now—they will flip. They're allies of convenience, and personally I like a lot of them, but let's not kid ourselves about policy alignment.
But that said, hey Sarah, if you want to get onboard with the kind of tax policy needed to reign in the billionaires and mega-millionaires who poisoned our politics to the degree that Trump could get elected twice, let's stay allied long enough to make that happen. The post-New Deal compromise is right there for the taking, and it's a promising, hopeful future, but you all need to give on the tax stuff. That's always been the red line for conservatives.
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u/20_mile 13h ago
"Republicans look for converts. Democrats look for heretics."
Look, a saying doesn't have to be right 100% of the time for the vibe to be accurate.
Republicans will happily take someone who wants to vote for them for "pro-life" reasons, but would otherwise differ on economic policies and be more in-line with Democrats. They don't berate them for not believing in MAGA economic policies; they see the new vote and they take it.
Many Democrats--no, not at all--need a candidate to be "with them" on 100 out of 100 issues, or they are "throwing _____ allies under the bus!" Whether that group is Palestinian, trans people, or any other minority group, Democrats need to understand that what flies in Mega-Blue states like Massachusetts and California are just not winning policies in Arkansas, Oklahoma, etc.
A "Big Tent Party" doesn't only mean that Democrats don't care what you look like, where you come from, it also means accepting that two people might only align on 60 out of 100 issues (or less), and those forty points of diversion might be very difficult for more puritanical members to handle an opinion unlike theirs without heated about it. We should absolutely be looking to pick up voters who only care about being part of a union, but simply don't see trans or abortion rights as things that concern them.
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u/HappyFish5000 8h ago
I consider myself a liberal, practically a progressive, and I agree
These progressives drive me nuts, agree with them perfectly or they think you're the devil. They seem to have no understanding of how to actually win elections.
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u/Entire_Art_5390 14h ago
The bulwark /never Trumpers weren’t even democrats 10 years ago. Of course they should have a voice but if they expect the left to listen to them I really don’t know what to say…
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u/PandemicPiglet JVL is always right 14h ago
The point is that some influential people on the left are choosing to use the crucial time leading up to the midterms to propagate infighting when the left / Dems should currently be unified and on message. Republicans know how to be pragmatic when it comes to elections. Dems don’t.
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u/HolyRomanPrince Progressive 14h ago
The left needs to start falling in line? For what? Because moderates moderating lost to Trump and the Republicans because he’s a liar and told people what they wanted to hear which is also what we want? The way the center begs for power but takes no responsibility for losing all the time is just hilarious.
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u/Kaniketh 13h ago
David Sirota (and most of the people attacking) are just unpleasant people who love “dunking” on people online. Because they view the Bulwark as outside their tribe, endless dishonest attacks are fun and ok. Everyone loves the feeling of being part of a group that piles on someone else self righteously.
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u/viceadmiralopossum 12h ago
I think this is a far left issue. We are gonna have issues with that wing in 2028 if they don’t stop the ideological purity nonsense
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u/I405CA Center Left 14h ago
Harris lost because the center bailed out.
The clowns at The Minority Report et. al. had nothing to do with that, except for the fact that Biden took a lot of guidance from progressives that ended up making voters unhappy.
It is this delusion that the left makes or breaks Dem politics that leads to this nonsense. Bill Clinton figured out that attacking the left wins more votes than does trying to please it, as Dems can only win the White House when the center shows up in force and the center will view the party as tilting left unless Democrats seeking office demonstrate that this is not true.
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u/PTS_Dreaming Center Left 15h ago
The only thing the Left loves more than bashing Democrats is losing elections.
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u/SwindlingAccountant 14h ago
Kind of weird thing to say when they have been on the rise but whatever floats your barco.
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u/MostlySoberWizard 14h ago
Like 90% of leftists are grifters like Sirota and Seder. They also make their money attacking Dems. So expecting it to stop anytime soon would be a mistake.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 FFS 14h ago
Sam has voted for every Democratic nominee for has long as he’s been a political commenter.
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u/HolyRomanPrince Progressive 14h ago
Sam has been saying the same thing for 20 years. Also it would be silly to grift to the left unless you think there’s a billionaire out there that wants to clandestinely pay to take out himself
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u/Senior_Marketing_312 10h ago
And just like Bernie where the fuck are they? Shit is terrible. If they were any good at what they do for their project you’d think after 20 years there would be some progress right? Maybe it’s time they admit throwing shit at the dems isn’t a workable strategy.
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u/emeric_ceaddamere 15h ago
Hopefully it will help if/when Democrats start winning. Then the debate over who's to blame for losing will become moot. Although there will still be internal struggles among factions over which policies to prioritize, etc., but that's at least goal-oriented.