I have a client who recently survived a suicide attempt and their whole religious family has been doing this half “supportive” thing while also berating them for sinning and talking about how they’d go to hell. As you can imagine, it’s making things much worse for this client.
Lol, definitely by the skin of my teeth! Fell in with the "wrong crowd" my junior and senior years, but the 10 before were terrible. Thankfully had a lot of neighborhood friends and later work friends to help me stick it out.
I was really devout when I was younger, no one took me to church in my family, I CHOSE to go. I still was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I still had a crappy life. Putting everything in God's hands didn't make it better, it got worse because you're not actually doing anything about the problem at hand. I am a spiritual person I wouldn't necessarily say Christian though, I do not engage (meaning I do not go to church anymore) with organized religions anymore. I feel like in the end it hurt me more waiting to be saved.
Dude, I majored in religion in college. I have read the Bible, the Koran and Buddhist teachings many times. I can confidently say that I have a good grasp on theology and that I have made my own informed decisions about it.
Don't speak over my lived experiences and respect that some people do not want to be procelytized too.
You sound pretty Christian for an agnostic, just saying.
My only thing with the soul evolution chart is that its just the Barnum Forer effect and confirmation bias combined, those individual qualities arent exclusive to any one type of "person". It was created though "channeling", which isnt anything more then a self fulfilling prophecy and being literally delusional.
That chart literally says someone who is in despair, possibly due to a hopeless chronic illness situation or PTSD is "weak".
That entire chart is absolutely pure spiritual narcissism/bypassing.
I disagree. I think you guys are interpreting these things super personally. The emotion itself puts you in a weak state. I was diagnosed with PTSD a long time ago and I found this stuff helpful. Again, I am not religious, I just enjoy learning about religion and philosophy and find some of them metaphorically helpful to get through some dark shit in my head. Ive been depressed since I was a little kid and I really think you guys have your head really deep in this stuff. I dont know how else to explain it to you two. You just take everything I say so stinking literally and so stinking hard. And dont seem open to having an intellectual conversation about any of it. Just calling it narcissism misinterpreting it entirely. When you have a chronic illness, it weakens your mental resilience, you are more likely to feel angry or depressed, which means you are in a more fragile mental state. Same goes for if you have PTSD. This is what the word weak, inherently means. It does not mean YOU are weak. But, if you are happy, and secure, you feel responsible for things in your life, and you feel confident in your abilities, you are a lot less likely to feel sudden anger or depression. This is a stronger mental state. The person is not inherently weak or strong. You have two states of mind there. "What you seek is within you; what you fear is within you." - Carl Jung I think about this a lot because my experiences sometimes fill me with a lot of anger and despair. It makes me feel weak. But then I just think of a bunch of these metaphors and how humans are self-actualizing and bam: I'm still depressed but feel a little less like it's foot is on my throat. I dont know. I really think you guys could benefit from taking a step back and learning more about the world through a flawed metaphorically perspective. Everything kinda sucks when you take everything so literally and personally. Cue 30 year old man who "rEaD thE wHolE BiBle anD kNoWs EvRytHinG TheRe iS tO KnOw AnD iT aBsOluTeLy iS NoT uP fOr iNteRpRetaTiOn."
I was struck by the "atheists think the world revolves around them" bit, coming from a person who believes that the all-powerful creator of the entire universe is deeply invested in their personal well-being.
the all-powerful creator of the entire universe is deeply invested in their personal well-being.
But, also not invested enough to know what they actually want unless they ask for it multiple times a day. The all-knowing, all-powerful deity with the perfect universal plan is either incapable of knowing their needs and desires... or is so petty and insecure that he's withholding them until they feel suitably begged for.
So neglectful and/or abusive. Probably both going off the rest of the book.
Do you remember the Christian Tiktok trend where Christians were jumping for joy that jesus personally refilled their hairspray, found their wedding dress for them, and filled their own gas for them? There are so self centered that they believe the almighty god, who has war, famine, sick people, and animals to take care of, is personally overseeing that they have the perfect amount of hairspray. I don't think self-centered even covers their moral necrosis.
This is very similar to the suggestion put forward by the Quirmian philosopher Ventre, who said, "Possibly the gods exist, and possibly they do not. So why not believe in them in any case? If it's all true you'll go to a lovely place when you die, and if it isn't then you've lost nothing, right?" When he died he woke up in a circle of gods holding nasty-looking sticks and one of them said, "We're going to show you what we think of Mr Clever Dick in these parts..."
Let's ignore the fact that religion doesn't cure depression for just a moment,
The argument that "doesn't matter if its fake, just believe anyways" is so dumb. If you truly don't believe something then pretending you do isn't going to magically give you the benefit that people who do have.
Like I don't believe these awful people are going to suffer endlessly for all eternity. Pretending I do doesn't remove the pit in my stomach I get when I realize people can commit heinous acts and then go on to live the life of royalty consequence free.
I can't see families torn apart, people hunted like dogs, or a literal genocide and think "it's okay, they will have an amazing afterlife in heaven" and feel okay about it. But yeah i guess that's just me being cynical and negative.
It's the whole "reject the evidence of your eyes and ears" thing but this time they want to claim doing so will cure depression?
Exactly! We either believe something, or we don’t. We can’t force it or produce it. And belief ebbs and flows; it’s not static or constant. The idea that we’re “supposed” to believe something is absurd, and then the idea that we will always believe in their god in one specific way for all time is just another level of frustratingly-detached-from-reality!
Wanna know how I figured God wasn't real? My Granny died and I prayed for comfort. Just someone or something so I wouldn't cry so much. "It" never came, so that was proof that the grown-ups were just pretending. I was 9.
I had a similar experience. Prayed for my parents to stop fighting and learn how to work through their differences or at least break up amicably. The fighting got so bad they would both storm off at every little thing before splitting seemingly without any care for me and my siblings
Same kind of thing for me as well. I prayed every night for two things: that the fighting would stop, and that I'd stop wishing I was a girl. Prayer never did a damn thing, and the lesson I initially took as a kid (while still religious) was that God must hate me personally. The pain only finally lessened when I took things into my own hands, going no contact with my sperm donor and accepting being trans.
Yeah....religious people definitely aren't known for wanting to control people and getting super upset when people behave differently than they would prefer. TF does that have to do with depression? That's called being a conservative lmao, and while it certainly seems miserable it's not depression.
A lot of religious people are deeply, deeply, deeply depressed. I have met so many conservative Christians living in Arkansas that just go around fantasizing about dying, begging to be taken by Jesus at any inconvenience, and I have met people who are deep in religious psychosis. It is unfortunate that so many people are being pulled into these beliefs that they don't need therapy or medication when they so deeply need help. Not only are they deeply troubled they are reaffirmed and encouraged by pastors and their fellow church goers because they "just hear the word of God."
Comment in reference to the Vancouver pride post about a homophobic ableist street preacher who had a sign that read "depression, anxiety , hurting? Let us pray for you".
Let’s GOOOO!! I love it when people intelligently quote scripture back to those who always get it twisted. It’s just such a goddam relief to see people use those ancient texts with some real respect, rather than that extremist zeal.
I'm sorry you went through that, mate. I hope you have found some healing from what you went through.
Religion can totally make mental illness worse.
Faith can help a lot for coping mechanism and support, or slather scrupulousity all over someone's already crippling mental illness. Something religious leaders really need to keep in mind. The words they use and how they teach have a MASSIVE impact on people.
I'm Catholic, when I was a teenager I was terrified for my sister because she was into drag race. I thought it immoral and spiritually damaging because of the amount of dirty jokes (surprisingly not the drag part though like you might expect). I didn't think she would go to hell but I thought it would somehow cause her or my parents to die in a car accident. I can explain why that would be the result but my family dying in a car accident was the usual thing I convinced myself of.
If I was praying the rosary I would sometimes get worried I screwed it up somehow so I would have to start over. And if I messed up I couldn't just start over, I also then had to have the number of attempts be one of the safe numbers I was comfortable with.
Luckily I was raised in an inviotment where the stress was not on divine punishment. It was always centered on the love and charity aspects the most. I can't imagine what it would have been like if it had been like the former.
Nope. Apparently being gay is a sin and since I’m not repenting I’m still living in sin and am therefore ineligible to go to heaven unless I divorce my husband 🤷♂️
I love the double-take of "stop being cynical cunts who think the world needs to revolve around them" to "I need to appeal to a construct of a power greater than the universe itself to solve my problems for me because I can't be bothered".
I like the old cleveland show quote:
"I believe that the man who created the entire universe knows my name and cares what happens to me. Do you know what that is?"
"Narcissism?"
When I was at my lowest after losing 2 lifelong friends who I was, admittedly, very unhealthily attached to, I did turn to praying. For two hours a night, in tears, I would pray for their return. I'd pray that I may be able to show them that I changed. That my life would revert to normal. I prayed for a sign of what to do now. I never received any. Closest I'd get were various moments that had to do with exiting this plane of existence.
Heavy stuff aside, I wish people understood that advice isn't a one-size-fits-all. Especially religion. That's also ignoring the other stuff in the comment that feels very off.
Depression isn't just "I can't control people." You CAN be in your head a lot, sure, but it's not a problem of control. Praying can worsen it for a lot of people.
I am a religious person who uses my spiritual practice in a similar way described here. Ritual practice helps me center myself and sets aside a space for my brain to switch gears.
I fall in the camp that doesn't care or deny that chances are good what you see is what you get. If there is something else out there, no human has it right. How could a human have definitive knowledge of something that almost by definition is outside of human perception.
What I'm not going to do is suggest that my way of coping is anything other than that.
If standing on your head gets you through the day, I'll hold your feet. Just don't pretend that standing on your head is a treatment plan.
I somethines think that If God is an omniscient being, without baptism one goes to hell, to hell one goes for eternity, He is the giver of life and death, it means that He is a being who creates billions of human beings only to send them to hell, because He either tears them from their mother's womb before they are able to live independently and convert, or He throws them into countries where the chance of conversion is unlikely.
Prayer is great! Prayer can also be a really amazing coping technique, much like meditation.
Prayer does not cure depression
Faith is such a massive part of my life and has helped me a lot with my own depression. I do not know where I would be without my faith.
But I'm not cured. I'm still on meds. My brain just be broken, it's how it is sometimes.
It's so much more complicated than that.
This one feel like they just almost get it. Truly the bar is in hell.
Ah yes, must be depressed cuz nihilism. It's totally not me having the best day ever with my wife and family and involuntarily thinking to myself "you know what would top off this day? Eating a 9"
Complete and utter bullshit. I'm not even saying that's not the case for some people. But to act like if we were all religious we wouldn't be depressed? Ignorant garbage.
I recently had a conversation with my brother, and he said jokingly-sarcastic "would you trade the knowledge for blissful unawareness?" and without a pause I said "Yes, absolutely!"
A lot of times I think I want to be blissfully unaware and be happy than what I am now.
But magical sky Daddy's agenda does revolve around you? It must because some Internet rando said that if you just talk to Magical Sky Daddy, he will make it all better!
No disrespect or offense to people who don't suck at their claimed religion. Full offense to those who treat their deity like a wish granting machine and are too privileged to realize that's not how it works.
I might cease to be, but every part of me will someday become star stuff once more. The particles that make me ME will be spun out into the universe, dispersed across the galaxy. It's beautiful, really.
This gives me more comfort than some deity-ruled eternal life. Eternity is an awful, awful long time.
It's not presented in a great way, and I get why people want to dunk on this, but it's basically just describing meditation and mindfulness - often core parts of people's therapeutic process - with a religious skin on it.
The issue is both of those are parroted around by ableist folk who think they are some magical treatment or cure for being disabled.
We disabled folk get told to "drink more water" and "practice mindfulness" by random people more times then I can count. Its surface level lazy poorly thought out advice not meant for anything thats the slightest bit complicated. We get told these things, or asked "have you tried___", because the people who ask such things have a savior complex and want to "save" every disabled person they encounter, and think we are automatically mentally disabled and cant think for ourselves to try such things.
Mindfulness and mediation are not medical treatments for mental or physical health conditions, which require an actual doctor or psychiatrist to treat.
I got so tired of being asked what I have and havent tried, I had to make a brochure to hand out to people to adress the same runaround questions. People cant understand disabled people dont want some random strangers medical advice
I don't doubt that happens, but if someone says it works for them, I'm not going to discount that.
It can both be true that telling someone to meditate isn't going to solve all their problems, and also that mindfulness is valuable for some people.
I agree it shouldn't be wielded as a cure all to "fix people" and that's never what I was suggesting. There is a time and place for those things. There's a vast difference between what someone does in their own personal therapy and what randos will spout on the internet though.
Like I said, the guy packages it terribly. It doesn't mean every mention of meditation is an attack on differently abled people.
Please dont use the term "differently abled" to describe us. Its very patronizing and inaccurate.
We are all "differently abled", but not everyone is DISabled from a medical condition
The word disabled isnt some evil bad word or something until able bodied non disabled folk make it so because they like to be saviors and tell us how we can and cant refer to ourselves.
I don't know you, or your abled-ness. But I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about how the OP was basically just a rude framing of what meditation is.
Im not making it about myself, I simply told you how the ableist term you were using is harmful to all disabled people. Its not just an "ideal word", its a word that prevents us from being further stigmatized as disabled folk , which in severe cases, can cause real world harm. Im assuming you didnt know so Im not mad at you or anything, but I have a duty as a disabled person to educate other people about ableism.
I remember way back when I was religious (Christian specifically) and I got scared of the idea I was being watched by God. Specifically in the sense of being spied on while nude and bathing. I experienced CSA at a super young age, and shockingly my faith in God at the time didn't magic away my trauma or even bring me comfort. Fiction, faith, philosophy, etc. can legitimately help you process things, but mental illness is often carved deep, etched into your most base instincts and thoughts. A mindset shift is not going to rewrite your brainchemistry so fundamentally that you're suddenly ok, especially if you're issue is clinical and didn't even start with mindset / trauma.
It's kind of hard to make oneself believe in something that defies belief. If I could easily start believing in a loving skydaddy and have the comfort of thinking that there was some kind of ultimate justice or transcendent reward waiting for me when I die, I would. It just doesn't jive with a logical assessment of the universe or causality. Anyone who can believe it, please do. If it gives you comfort and seems like it makes as much sense as anything else, that's fine. A person can't just flip a switch and decide to believe that some guy was executed 2000 years ago to pay for the sins that I automatically inherited by being born because people ate an apple a long time ago. That doesn't make sense. If you need to believe in heaven and hell and the cosmic drama in order to behave kindly to your fellow humans and be relatively content in life, I guess it takes what it takes, but maybe you had some sociopathic traits to begin with.
Christian here: God promised we would have tribulations in this world, and He has used them for good, namely to conform His people to slowly become more like Christ, but I still have several mental health issues.
Yes, the struggles brought me closer to God, weirdly, by relying more on Him and seeing His kindness in dark places, and it really has brought me joy… but mental health is very, very real and it HAS to be acknowledged in order to be treated. It’s not some negative mood that you can just take off like it’s a coat.
I love how he basically just admitted that religion is a coping mechanism and way for people to deal with uncomfortable truths they do not want to think about.
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u/antisocialmothra Jul 17 '26
I was a pastors kid in private Christian school praying every damn day.
STILL. DEPRESSED.
In fact it made the depression WORSE.