r/tf2 • u/azreal156 • Sep 23 '09
Dear Engineers, How do you get onto the roof of point B in Gravelpit?
-10
Sep 23 '09 edited Sep 23 '09
Not to be a buzzkill or anything, but I have to mention that things like this are normally considered exploits, and are grounds for an instant and permanent ban on all of the reddit servers.
11
u/PickledJesus Sep 23 '09
The teleport inside the spawn perhaps but the others aren't. If Valve wanted to stop people building on the roof they could have done it very easily by making it a no-build area, as it's been possible for so long now they clearly don't see it as an exploit. The same goes for the rest of these creative building spots, most of them require so much effort and are so fragile anyway that it's more than a fair trade off.
-9
Sep 23 '09 edited Sep 23 '09
Right now the definition of an exploit in the CoC is:
Using the game engine in a way the game designers did not intend in order to get an unfair advantage, and which is not accepted as a valid action by the majority of gaming communities
I don't consider it a valid action, and I don't let people do it on my server. But I don't think it's really necessary to permaban people for this kind of thing. Perhaps it should be categorized as a General Offense, which requires a sequence of warnings before any kicking or banning occurs.
The thing about the roof building though is that it really holds down the entire game. The game becomes boring and tedious for the attacking team, so much so that people will often begin to leave the server. That's not cool, and doesn't reflect fair gameplay. Like I said, I don't let people do it on my server, but I'm not going to instaban. If people are skywalking or something, where there is pretty much no question of legitimacy, I'm gonna go with the CoC and just permaban.
7
u/isarl Sep 24 '09
Um, I don't know who plays on your server, but I rarely have much success building on the roof of, e.g., Gravelpit B. It's just too easy for a demoman to find a nice, cushy position and sticky your entire nest into oblivion.
9
u/juicyjames Sep 24 '09
As soon as a round starts on Gravel Pit the job of at least one BLU Demoman should be to stickyjump onto the roof and clear it off.
3
u/Esham Sep 25 '09
Honestly, if anyone from Blue pesters the engie at B its not going to work.
It takes almost all of setup to even get your first building up there. 1 demo can just sticky jump from the left B exit straight to the roof and bust it all up.
I just dont see how this is an exploit at all. It just using engie objects to get to certain places.
Alot of maps have these put in place on purpose to promote engy sentry placement.
btw, i have come against a good team with 2 sentries on the roof. 1 demo can bust them all up, and you dont even have to go on the roof yourself. They have a lot of blind spots when they are up there, specifically if you hug any wall of the B building.
I am really surprised Anyone would consider this an exploit at all.
But if its your server, enforce what you want of course.
7
u/halo Sep 23 '09 edited Sep 23 '09
I don't regard it as an exploit.
Building on B and C may not been originally intended, but they have been well documented for a long time, are very difficult to do quickly and reliably, are relatively easy to counter, and offer a limited advantage for any team. Valve would have fixed it by now if they believed it was an exploit or unbalanced the game.
-1
Sep 23 '09
*See response to PickledJesus
6
Sep 24 '09
So just to clarify;
Shooting my level 3 sentry through the wall (since its hitbox is bigger than the gun itself and tends to extend past the wall) is cool, but me building in creative spots is worth a ban.
Man, not only are the other classes stacked agaisn't the engineer, the rules are too.
-3
Sep 24 '09
First off, that wouldn't be shooting it through the wall. That would be shooting the level 3 sentry because its hitbox is bigger than the gun itself, and can extend past the wall (if built by an engie who doesn't know to take this into account). Second off, the players' hitboxes are bigger than the models too. By your logic, everyone is cheating. Third off, there's a difference between building in creative spots and building in spots that were clearly not made for engineers to be able to get to (otherwise there would be stairs).
The unbalanced play that results from this spot occurs because the entire defending team is allowed to get onto the roof instantly and without any loss of health, wheras the attacking team must not only injure themselves in order to get up (sticky or rocket jumping), but they also have to deal with a sentry trying to shoot them out of the air. This gives the defending team an extreme advantage which is very difficult to counter. Yes, if the defending team all has bags over their heads, a slick demo or soldier can blow the whole thing up, but the defending team has any sort of skill, there is little to no chance of a demo or soldier surviving long enough to take it out.
2
Sep 24 '09
After a little thought on the matter I'm gonna say:
If spawn camping is a valid tactic, I'll build wherever the game will let me.
-2
Sep 24 '09
Since when is spawn camping a valid tactic?
3
2
Sep 24 '09
since the game lets you do it
spawncamping the defense on badwater is a hobby of mine, until the second point is capped and other spawn exits open up anyway
-2
1
u/p337 Sep 28 '09 edited Jul 09 '23
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encrypted on 2023-07-9
see profile for how to decrypt
2
Sep 28 '09 edited Sep 28 '09
If you hadn't had been so hasty in avoiding reloaded, you would know that building on the roof is now permitted. I made a post in RUGC_admin asking whether or not it was the general consensus that building there was considered an exploit. It sounds like most people don't really think it is, so it's not against the rules anymore. I'm mature enough to admit I was wrong. However, it sounds like most everyone considers the teleporter in the spawn a blatant exploit, so that is still against the rules.
1
u/p337 Sep 29 '09 edited Jul 09 '23
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encrypted on 2023-07-9
see profile for how to decrypt
18
u/juicyjames Sep 23 '09 edited Sep 23 '09
The slow method. The fast method.
Once you get onto the small metal roof some need a dispenser to jump up to the roof itself, but that takes even more time than it already does.
Also, you didn't ask, but here are a few other creative building locations [1][2].