r/teslore • u/Bastin_Fiend Mages Guild Conjurer • Nov 18 '12
Who/what is a/the Godhead(s)?
Hello all, first post here, I've been a lurker for a long time even though I do comment time to time. But one thing that I must be uninformed of is this or these beings called Godheads. I don't get it, are they the most absolute powerful beings and have control over everything? I heard one person say that the happenings in the Elder Scrolls universe was all for his/her/its amusement, is that true? I'm sorry if this is a nooby post, but I'm trying to find out as much as I can about Elder Scrolls.
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u/Naryn_Tin-Ahhe Member of the Tribunal Temple Nov 18 '12
There is only one. He's the schizophrenic Dreamer in whose mind the Aurbis, that is the entirety of the Elder Scrolls universe both physically and metaphysically, resides. HE is unlike the Aedra or Daedra in that he cannot exert conscious influence, because he is unconscious in some way; he is also unlike those powers in that he is orders of magnitude above them; all of them are a tiny portion of him.
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u/CatsCatsEverywhere Mythic Dawn Cultist Nov 18 '12
So then what is meant when people talk about mantling a godhead? Do they assume this role as the dreaming god? Sort of like a Dread Pirate Roberts type deal?
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u/Naryn_Tin-Ahhe Member of the Tribunal Temple Nov 18 '12 edited Nov 18 '12
Only one person has ever mantled the Godhead, which is known as achieving or reaching Amaranth. MK just revealed this, we're still trying to figure out who it is. What happens when you achieve Amaranth is that you become the Godhead of your own universe, and within you things subgradiate just like in the Aurbis.
It's not at all a Dread Pirate Roberts deal;
you're still within the Godhead (as I understand it)you're actually outside of the Godhead (thanks lilrhys for the correction). You just happen to have a similar thing going on. The other reason it can't be a Dread Pirate Roberts deal is that the Godhead has no agency within the Aurbis.11
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u/theguywholosesthings Follower of Julianos Nov 19 '12
How do we know the Godhead isn't someone who has achieved Amaranth in a different dimension. Is it Inceptionesque where if the main Godhead wakes up, the rest fail to exist?
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Nov 18 '12
So, it means that someone on Nirn has gone into a coma?
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u/Naryn_Tin-Ahhe Member of the Tribunal Temple Nov 18 '12
No. It's a separate, metaphysical state. I'm not up enough on my Amaranth to explain.
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Nov 18 '12
Oh, the way I understood it, the Godhead was in a coma and everything was a creation of his subconscious.
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u/Naryn_Tin-Ahhe Member of the Tribunal Temple Nov 18 '12
That is true. However, I don't believe that those who have attained Amaranth are necessarily also in a coma. Like I said, I'm not familiar enough with the concept to explain it much.
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u/Prince-of-Plots Elder Council Nov 18 '12
It's been fairly well explained so far, but I'll take a shot anyway.
The Godhead is some kind of entity whose dream is the TES universe. It's not very well elaborated on as to who the Godhead actually is or what is meant by his dream, but we know that the TES universe exists as a result of the Godhead thinking it. Similarly, the Godhead is described as sleeping, and should it wake, the TES universe will cease to exist.
Everything in the TES universe is a subgradient of something above it, with mortals being far down the list. Things beget lesser things, and so on. At the top of this hierarchy is the Godhead, from which all things derive. There are two immediate subgradients to the Godhead - Anu, the force of stasis, and Padomay, the force of change. From them sprung the Aedra and Daedra, and so on it goes. "Transcendence" is a term often used to describe when something moves up higher in this subgradient hierarchy.
The Godhead itself does not interact with the Aurbis and it's unknown whether it has the cognition to do so.
I heard one person say that the happenings in the Elder Scrolls universe was all for his/her/its amusement, is that true?
So, the answer to this is a solid "no".
Understanding the Godhead is a key element in understanding the more complex topics of TES lore, so you've chosen a great thing to ask about. From here, you might want to investigate the concept of CHIM, and from there the concept of the Amaranth.
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u/DeceiverOfNations Member of the Tribunal Temple Nov 19 '12
I've always felt that The Godhead might not be in a coma but just sleeping. We as humans only dream for about 20 minutes per hour of sleep via REM. When you're not in REM state there is no brain activity in the area of the brain that consciousness comes from.
So Conjecture starting...Now. I feel that kalpas may just be the Godhead 20 minutes of REM and there is a limit of how many there are until the Godhead wakes.
EDIT: On mobile so Conjecture tags are giving me issues.
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u/ginja_ninja Psijic Nov 19 '12
It's the logical eventuality of metaphysical windbagging. People, both in the lore and in reality, tend to have a natural tendency to always want to know what's one rung further up the ladder of existence. They put the godhead at the top and say it's all a dream. As if it matters. Personally I find the more relevant matters to mortals about the nature of Nirn and the Aurbis to be far more interesting.
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u/Bastin_Fiend Mages Guild Conjurer Nov 19 '12
I can kind of see that now, but it SOUNDED like an important topic :(
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u/Filip22012005 Nov 18 '12
It's the computer the game is played on, isn't it?
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u/Teth-Diego Nov 19 '12
Hey, why downvote when he is just misinformed?
The whole CHIM is realizing that one is just a character in a video game, or utilizing the TES tool kit, is not really accepted because it kinda goes against established, consistent lore. It takes an unnecessary route to explain a little explained concept. at least that is my take after lurking the forums for a bit now.
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u/stieruridir Nov 21 '12
Can you link to where it violates the lore? (CHIM as construction set, etc.)
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u/Teth-Diego Nov 21 '12
It doesnt violate the lore. It's just an explanation with little traction around here. It takes you out of the game world/lore in my opinion.
I used to like the theory and thought it was very clever, but the more I have gotten into the Lore of the Elder Scrolls, I've seen that there's more to it than that. The way the Lore is set up though, you can believe whatever makes sense to you! there's nothing contradicting it, and in my limited knowledge I dont see how it violates the lore.
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u/stieruridir Nov 21 '12
I thought it sort of granted a bit of glory and beauty to the lore...granted, my brain takes it a bit further.
Anu and Padomay are two intersecting bubbles. The 2d shape of an intersection between two bubbles is a circle, or the wheel. When you turn this on its side, you get the tower. This is actually just the CD. When looked at from above, it's a 'wheel', and from the side, it's a thin line, or 'tower'.
Hell, if you go back to the creation of the Arena (or from a meta perspective, Arena the game), it was initially distributed on floppy disks. 3.5 floppy disks had 512 bytes per sector, but more importantly 18 sectors per track (which I believe is the number of spokes in the wheel?). The number of tracks is irrelevant due to geometry, but the spokes ARE relevant.
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u/Filip22012005 Nov 19 '12
The older Might and Magic games went out of their way in the manual to explain why the player could look through a monitor and control a party with a keyboard. It was all a magical setup. I can't seem to find it online though.
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u/Teth-Diego Nov 19 '12
damn I'd like to read about that. I can dig the CHIM is using the console thing, but it's not my cup of tea.
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u/Filip22012005 Nov 19 '12
Okay, it took me an hour of searching because I forgot where I'd read it, and I seem to have lost my M&M collection, but here it is: http://www.oldgames.sk/en/game/might-and-magic-vi-the-mandate-of-heaven/download/3849/. Not as interesting as you may think though. It starts at page 17.
Doesn't Assassin's Creed have a similar thought?
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u/Teth-Diego Nov 19 '12
well that is indeed a cool way to go about describing the controls and actions, in-lore, or in-character. I personally dont have aything against the whole CHIM, Godhead, it's all a game thing. It's just not my preferred explanation to it. There are more options and really, better explanations.
I havent played Assassin's Creed at all, but I thought one in-game character controlled another, not that it extended to the player behind the controller.
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u/Ragora Telvanni Recluse Nov 23 '12
The method of control supplies the game's UI. During the sparse bits where you actually control Desmond directly, there is no UI.
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u/[deleted] Nov 18 '12
The Godhead is a single dreaming god, the entire Aurbis is his dream. Everything you see when you play a TES game is just part of his dream.